Making do with what I have!
- Thread starter sean Buick 76
- Start date
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Yeah give it a go!
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Shane and I are going to fix up and upgrade my old childhood HO train set... It works but needs to be cleaned, and fixed up. Currently scrounging the local area for HO buildings, trees etc to set this thing up! Shane loves watching the trains!
1/2 Cup
Member Emeritus
Luv the Gaskin Express.
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
You guys remember that plasti-dip paint I used on the car bumpers?
It also works great for blacking out chrome and you can peal if off if you decide to sell the vehicle or just want to go back to chrome!
I did the grille, wheel center caps, and trying the door handles in black.
You can peal it right off anytime.
It also works great for blacking out chrome and you can peal if off if you decide to sell the vehicle or just want to go back to chrome!
I did the grille, wheel center caps, and trying the door handles in black.
You can peal it right off anytime.
dubber
Well-known member
Nice job. Its a great product. I just get frustrated with the fine edges between surfaces.
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
A teaser video of my car! I am trying to only accelerate fast in second gear because in first it spins both the 20" wide tires even at 50 MPH... In second gear I can test out the engine under boost pressure for about a second before I am going too fast even on the highway... Third gear acceleration would land me losing my license due to excessive speeds if I got caught...
So here is a quick run, with me respecting the power, and testing it out a bit... At no time in this video do I floor it, this is part throttle:
So here is a quick run, with me respecting the power, and testing it out a bit... At no time in this video do I floor it, this is part throttle:
1/2 Cup
Member Emeritus
Just awesome Sean, man has it got some punch.
Thanks for sharing..
Thanks for sharing..
Alexbn921
Well-known member
Slow
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Shane and I have been working on the mountain and tunnels for the HO train set!
Found this broken piece of 1" styrofoam and cut it up using a jigsaw... Then sloped the edges with a hacksaw and wood saw... Will finish contouring these later.
Next time i will use a tarp on the ground:
Mocked up in place... Still need 3 lower 1" pieces and a few more above:
Cut out templates from paper all numbered:
Still lots of work to do so stay tuned!!! And today is dyno day for the Buick!!!!!
Found this broken piece of 1" styrofoam and cut it up using a jigsaw... Then sloped the edges with a hacksaw and wood saw... Will finish contouring these later.
Next time i will use a tarp on the ground:
Mocked up in place... Still need 3 lower 1" pieces and a few more above:
Cut out templates from paper all numbered:
Still lots of work to do so stay tuned!!! And today is dyno day for the Buick!!!!!
Bob Heine
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Sean, it's a monster but it looks like the speedo reads around 50 all the time.At no time in this video do I floor it, this is part throttle:
"Officer, I checked my speed and I swear I never went over 50! I just barely tapped the throttle..."
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Yes Bob spedo is not working gotta fix it...
1/2 Cup
Member Emeritus
Let us know how the Buick goes on the dyno Sean.
Your train set should come up great.
Regards
Your train set should come up great.
Regards
metalhead140
Well-known member
Hanging for those dyno results! Video was awesome!
HSpencer
ALLIANCE MEMBER
WOW your truck is looking great!! I like the ideas you have done on it. I used to be a fan of the train sets as well. Of course mine were from the 1950s!! I wish I still had them as I could probably sell them on fleabay for big bucks!!
Everything is looking great on your end of the scale my friend!!
Best Regards
Herb
Everything is looking great on your end of the scale my friend!!
Best Regards
Herb
Sean, I love that mountain! You need to have him carve a project like that when he's 12 so he can understand how topo maps work!
It reminds me of the N-gauge RR my dad built for me on a big 4x8 piece of plywood, it hinged up into the basement wall when we needed the workshop for work. He made his mountains out of layers of rough, black cork wall panels that were about 1.25" thick. This was the late 1960's, before sheets of foam plastic and the like were everywhere. (Heh, not for much longer, a few years later he was doing foam-and-fiberglass sailboat building, while I helped.)
Maybe add an abandoned tunnel witih a Nazi train full of ill-gotten loot and treasure in it.
It reminds me of the N-gauge RR my dad built for me on a big 4x8 piece of plywood, it hinged up into the basement wall when we needed the workshop for work. He made his mountains out of layers of rough, black cork wall panels that were about 1.25" thick. This was the late 1960's, before sheets of foam plastic and the like were everywhere. (Heh, not for much longer, a few years later he was doing foam-and-fiberglass sailboat building, while I helped.)
Maybe add an abandoned tunnel witih a Nazi train full of ill-gotten loot and treasure in it.
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
I am working night shifts but I managed to find time to get the car on the dyno today quickly before work....
I felt a little bad for the poor original numbers matching 350 so just before the test I lowered the boost to 16 PSI from 20 hoping to keep from spitting the stock rods across the dyno room.
The dyno operator let off the throttle at 3500 RPM as we had a header gasket blow out. So we do not know the peak HP or TQ yet but we did get some good data. The carb was set a little bit lean for a boosted engine so I will dial that in before it goes back. The calculators say that 450 HP at the tires is about 550 HP at the crank. I guess 450 HP at 3500 RPM is pretty good! Was planning to rev to 7000, oh well next time!
It may be a little while till I get it back on the dyno, work and the new little guy are keeping me busy...
I felt a little bad for the poor original numbers matching 350 so just before the test I lowered the boost to 16 PSI from 20 hoping to keep from spitting the stock rods across the dyno room.
The dyno operator let off the throttle at 3500 RPM as we had a header gasket blow out. So we do not know the peak HP or TQ yet but we did get some good data. The carb was set a little bit lean for a boosted engine so I will dial that in before it goes back. The calculators say that 450 HP at the tires is about 550 HP at the crank. I guess 450 HP at 3500 RPM is pretty good! Was planning to rev to 7000, oh well next time!
It may be a little while till I get it back on the dyno, work and the new little guy are keeping me busy...
jbmatth
Well-known member
Those numbers are promising, I'd love to know what 550 hp at 3500 rpm feels like. I'm sure it'll get dialed in soon enough and it'll be making children cry!
JB
JB
BuickFarmer
Well-known member
A teaser video of my car! I am trying to only accelerate fast in second gear because in first it spins both the 20" wide tires even at 50 MPH... In second gear I can test out the engine under boost pressure for about a second before I am going too fast even on the highway... Third gear acceleration would land me losing my license due to excessive speeds if I got caught...
So here is a quick run, with me respecting the power, and testing it out a bit... At no time in this video do I floor it, this is part throttle:
Did I see some house windows shaking as you "idled" by. Can't wait to hear it at full throttle. Looking good Sean, truck looking good too.
SouperGrover
Well-known member
Hey Sean,
I just finished reading your thread from start to finish and wow! Some great stuff here. HSpencer pointed me to your woodshop shed idea dn I wanted to check everything else out as well. I'm building a woodshop myself and stole a bunch of your ideas - especially the fold down tables, your miter/sander/tablesaw workstation and the rolling adjustable table saw. I'll definitely be stealing a few of those ideas.
I love cars, but don't work on them. Even so, I'm sub'd just to see any other workshop ideas you come up with. Also, the acreage you own where you're going to put hte shop... beautiful. God's country for sure
I just finished reading your thread from start to finish and wow! Some great stuff here. HSpencer pointed me to your woodshop shed idea dn I wanted to check everything else out as well. I'm building a woodshop myself and stole a bunch of your ideas - especially the fold down tables, your miter/sander/tablesaw workstation and the rolling adjustable table saw. I'll definitely be stealing a few of those ideas.
I love cars, but don't work on them. Even so, I'm sub'd just to see any other workshop ideas you come up with. Also, the acreage you own where you're going to put hte shop... beautiful. God's country for sure
rixtrix1
Well-known member
Looks like you have a monster in your garage, Sean. I had around 750HP when I had my Chevelle on nitrous, so I have some idea of what you are feeling on these initial test squirts. Enjoy, (safely, of course, heh heh)!
jon72vega
Well-known member
Sounds like alot of potential in that engine!
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Well Shane and I have been busy:
This is a new turbocharger I got for a max effort dyno engine project I am working on. See the size difference between it and the turbos on the car.
Folded down the train set and got the mountain roughed out. I am removing the center set of tracks to make room for the car drag strip. If you look close there is a lake and a river down the mountain. Next is taking all the track off, re painting the whole thing, adding the roads, drag strip, river, scenery, and finally the track and buildings.
This is a new turbocharger I got for a max effort dyno engine project I am working on. See the size difference between it and the turbos on the car.
Folded down the train set and got the mountain roughed out. I am removing the center set of tracks to make room for the car drag strip. If you look close there is a lake and a river down the mountain. Next is taking all the track off, re painting the whole thing, adding the roads, drag strip, river, scenery, and finally the track and buildings.
Last edited:
Carves
Well-known member
Im guessing the trainset modelling is probably, a relaxing break from the underhood jobs ??
Good to see the little bloke is already getting aquainted with a steering wheel ..
Good to see the little bloke is already getting aquainted with a steering wheel ..
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Im guessing the trainset modelling is probably, a relaxing break from the underhood jobs ??
Good to see the little bloke is already getting aquainted with a steering wheel ..
Yes it is a nice hobby, you are only limited by your imagination so it is a lot of fun. Shane loves watching the train go round and round, but I want to get the layout fixed up before I get it back up and running. Stay tuned for updates as we go.
I took Ric's advice and have been having him around the power tools, cars and trucks since he was small so he is used to the noise and will sleep right through my racket.
Sorry guys no garage updates lately, I just have not had anything that I needed to do other than use it. Still brainstorming about building a big shop at the acreage, lots of work to do on the design before I move forward with that.
1/2 Cup
Member Emeritus
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for your new build Sean.
The train set is a fantastic father and son project even at his age.
Regards
The train set is a fantastic father and son project even at his age.
Regards
rixtrix1
Well-known member
Trains are a really nice hobby for your kids to share. My youngest son, Graeme, got 13 different train sets from the time he was 5 until 12. only bad thing was when he went online and found a train store nearby, then the hobby started get a little more expensive! All those individual houses, stores, schools,etc. not to mention custom train car sets are a great bonding tool as we put them together, but $$$$. He still has them all and they take up a large portion of our 10x12 shed, but he wants to keep them. A Christmas set comes out every year to go around our tree. I still have a sheet metal wind-up set I got in 1956. It would be worth a lot if I had the box, but I played with it. Guess that shows where my son got the need to keep them all, heh heh.
I'll be waiting to see how yours turns out!
I'll be waiting to see how yours turns out!
rixtrix1
Well-known member
What size engine you planning to put that gigantic turbo on? Looks like it weighs as much as an engine by itself.
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Cool story about the father son train set! I have been buying stuff and yes it adds up! This set was mine as a child, my dad helped me build it so it is cool to carry it on.
The turbo is going on my max effort Buick 355" engine. I figure this way I can leave the car together and dyno test the new engine itself. A friend of mine who is a pro drag race car tuner helped me spec out the turbo. For use in a car this combo would have turbo lag, however for shooting for max hp on the dyno this is a good match. If the engine will not spool it up I have a 150 shot of nitrous to get things rolling. I will sell the turbo after my testing is done, got it for really cheep.
The world record for Buick 350 hp is 1021 so I am shooting to break that. Then I will put that engine in my car and let it live an easy life at about 800 hp.
rixtrix1
Well-known member
Have you heard of putting a dry nitrous nozzle directly into the compressor scroll housing, spraying onto the impeller to help it spool up? Takes some calculating to get the fuel right by the time the nitrous hits the engine, but can really shorten the lag time and get the boost going sooner. Just a thought.
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Train set is coming along!
Today we removed the old center track, to make room for the drag strip, worked on the mountain, it is now ready for paint, setup the back drop... It is a paper print glued to a long 1/4" board. Started working on the river banks, will secure these pieces to the main board and then use putty to blend them in. Then I can paint the river bed, re paint the whole board the same green, and finally setup my roads and drag strip.
Today we removed the old center track, to make room for the drag strip, worked on the mountain, it is now ready for paint, setup the back drop... It is a paper print glued to a long 1/4" board. Started working on the river banks, will secure these pieces to the main board and then use putty to blend them in. Then I can paint the river bed, re paint the whole board the same green, and finally setup my roads and drag strip.
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Hi to all my regular visitors! Thanks for all the encouragement I appreciate it!
Sorry I missed this message and just read it now. So glad you enjoy my projects, I am doing the best I can with what I have!
Sorry I missed this message and just read it now. So glad you enjoy my projects, I am doing the best I can with what I have!
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Sorry for the late reply. I was thinking about spraying the nitrous directly at the impeller but I could not find too much information about the topic... Can you fill me in about this?
rixtrix1
Well-known member
Sean, I'll send you a PM when I have more time.
1/2 Cup
Member Emeritus
I am not going to share your train set with Mrs 1/2 Cup Sean, she luvs them and I could see our lounge being taken over with one.
jbmatth
Well-known member
When you get the information on the nitrous into the impeller fill us in with a quick summery, I've seen that before and the first time was about 10 years ago on the quickest 4cyl car in the world of all things.
JB
JB
OP
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
To start with here is a few basic things about nitrous oxide:
A typical engine can only make about 80-90% efficiency based on the math and physics of what it should in theory produce.
The game changed when using a power adder such as a turbo or a supercharger and we can literately double the HP of an engine assuming it is strong enough to handle it. This happens due to compressing the air and force-feeding it into the engine.
The other way to make huge power is to use nitrous because it allows us to add huge amounts of air and fuel to an engine way past what it could normally digest. Spray nitrous gas into the engine, and increase the amount of fuel added to the engine and enjoy the power.
Nitrous and turbos are actually a match made in heaven because you can use the nitrous for an instant power surge to spool up a large turbo eliminating turbo lag, and as an added bonus the nitrous sprays so cold coming out that it inter-cools the boosted air. We can use a controller or a trigger, to control the nitrous parameters like rpm, boost, throttle position etc. A common setup would be spray the nitrous only when the boost is less than say 10 psi and only when at full throttle. When injecting nitrous into a turbocharged engine the gain can be higher than the HP rating due to the added cooling of the boosted air. The thing is though that a properly sized turbo does not really need the nitrous so only a few people looking for really high power combine them both.
Contrary to popular thought nitrous is not dangerous, or explosive, or even hard on engines if used properly. Nitrous injected into the engine either before or after the throttle body/carb allows the engine to get more air because the nitrous expands rapidly when it is changing from a gas to a liquid. Cooler air is denser, so cooler air into the engine makes more power and lowers the exhaust temps that can be an issue on turbo applications.
And two posts down Ric fills us in on the idea of spraying the nitrous directly into the compressor scroll to get a turbo making boost quickly.
A typical engine can only make about 80-90% efficiency based on the math and physics of what it should in theory produce.
The game changed when using a power adder such as a turbo or a supercharger and we can literately double the HP of an engine assuming it is strong enough to handle it. This happens due to compressing the air and force-feeding it into the engine.
The other way to make huge power is to use nitrous because it allows us to add huge amounts of air and fuel to an engine way past what it could normally digest. Spray nitrous gas into the engine, and increase the amount of fuel added to the engine and enjoy the power.
Nitrous and turbos are actually a match made in heaven because you can use the nitrous for an instant power surge to spool up a large turbo eliminating turbo lag, and as an added bonus the nitrous sprays so cold coming out that it inter-cools the boosted air. We can use a controller or a trigger, to control the nitrous parameters like rpm, boost, throttle position etc. A common setup would be spray the nitrous only when the boost is less than say 10 psi and only when at full throttle. When injecting nitrous into a turbocharged engine the gain can be higher than the HP rating due to the added cooling of the boosted air. The thing is though that a properly sized turbo does not really need the nitrous so only a few people looking for really high power combine them both.
Contrary to popular thought nitrous is not dangerous, or explosive, or even hard on engines if used properly. Nitrous injected into the engine either before or after the throttle body/carb allows the engine to get more air because the nitrous expands rapidly when it is changing from a gas to a liquid. Cooler air is denser, so cooler air into the engine makes more power and lowers the exhaust temps that can be an issue on turbo applications.
And two posts down Ric fills us in on the idea of spraying the nitrous directly into the compressor scroll to get a turbo making boost quickly.
Last edited:
Bobby.B
Member
Awesome garage and projects! Love the Buick and that was an excellent explanation of nitrous in layman's terms. I have always wondered about spraying directly on the impeller instead of a wet shot to the motor to help spool the larger turbos. Much cheaper option and seems much easier to tune for.
I'll definitely be sticking around to see how your projects progress.
I'll definitely be sticking around to see how your projects progress.
rixtrix1
Well-known member
Sean, a couple of clarifications to your explanation of using a nitrous nozzle to spin up a turbo before there is enough exhaust flow to do so, either due to exhaust or intake piping length contributing to "turbo lag" or using an oversized turbo to make high boost at high rpm only. Nitrous helps to build power because it is chemically about 40% oxygen and 60% nitrogen, instead of the normal 21% and 70% in the air. This extra oxygen is released as the compound breaks apart from the heat of combustion. While it is not dangerous or explosive by itself, if enough extra fuel is not added to the engine to make up for the extra oxygen, combustion chamber temps go sky high , leading to detonation, melted sparkplugs and pistons. The cooling effect of the liquid nitrous vaporizing is negated if the mixture is too lean. The volumetric efficiency of the engine is increased because of the extra fuel and oxygen added into the cylinder above what normal atmospheric pressure can push into the cylinder, increasing horsepower. I ran an 8 cylinder fogger system in my Malibu 331 engine at 12.5/1 compression, 800 cfm carb and gained about 350 HP over the 400HP the engine put out NA. Lots of RPM mind you! I bought the nitrous setup in a manifold already dialed in with a logbook and the engine was built to match. In 350 runs, I only burned one spark plug running low 10's and 130+ mph, but I never tried for max power. It was dead reliable and the only maintenance was valvesprings every 100 passes. I used moderate timing and always ran the system a little rich( I wish I had access to a wideband o2 sensor back in the '70's and 80's!).
The nitrous nozzle is put into the compressor scroll, kind of pointing toward the outlet of the compressor in such a way that the spray pattern hits in impeller, NOT the exhaust side which would probably melt the impeller and housing by causing an afterburn in the exhaust housing as the o2 will burn what little unburned fuel is left in the exhaust and then go after whatever else will oxidize. Another benefit besides the early spin on the impeller is, as Sean said, the cooling effect due to the vaporization of the nitrous in the intake tract. Extra fuel needs to be added to make up for the nitrous, either by running a carb a little richer than normal, which leads to a rich idle and associated problems, or by setting the fuel map for injection to add extra enrichment when the nitrous is added , as well as when the boost comes on. This makes for a much cleaner burning setup than using a carb, IMO, but there have been so many advances in using nitrous since I did that any of the manufacturers could probably lend much more information on this. Unfortunately, none of the electronic controllers or such were available when I used the juice.
The nitrous nozzle is put into the compressor scroll, kind of pointing toward the outlet of the compressor in such a way that the spray pattern hits in impeller, NOT the exhaust side which would probably melt the impeller and housing by causing an afterburn in the exhaust housing as the o2 will burn what little unburned fuel is left in the exhaust and then go after whatever else will oxidize. Another benefit besides the early spin on the impeller is, as Sean said, the cooling effect due to the vaporization of the nitrous in the intake tract. Extra fuel needs to be added to make up for the nitrous, either by running a carb a little richer than normal, which leads to a rich idle and associated problems, or by setting the fuel map for injection to add extra enrichment when the nitrous is added , as well as when the boost comes on. This makes for a much cleaner burning setup than using a carb, IMO, but there have been so many advances in using nitrous since I did that any of the manufacturers could probably lend much more information on this. Unfortunately, none of the electronic controllers or such were available when I used the juice.
Last edited:
jbmatth
Well-known member
Sean,
I appreciate the easy breakdown and am at least familiar with the concepts you explained. I would like to add to/clarify one statement you made though.
This 80-90% efficiency is the pumping efficiency of the engine, for say a 350 in^3 v8 engine it will only be able to pull in 280-315 in^3 of air for a full intake cycle of the engine on a naturally aspirated engine. I don't remember enough about engine operating theory to know about how accurate the 80-90% is but it sounds about right for a normal engine. I will say that engines are very poor at actually extracting the power from their fuel. I remember in my internal combustion engines courses that a gasoline engine can only extract 18-22% of the available energy in the fuel as most of the energy is lost to heat, friction, and some isn't burned. Diesel engines are in the mid to high twenty something percent range. However, when you add forced induction you can extract a little more energy out of the volume of fuel. I was very surprised at the above when I first heard it but even tested it in the lab on a few engines and the results were similar.
JB
I appreciate the easy breakdown and am at least familiar with the concepts you explained. I would like to add to/clarify one statement you made though.
This 80-90% efficiency is the pumping efficiency of the engine, for say a 350 in^3 v8 engine it will only be able to pull in 280-315 in^3 of air for a full intake cycle of the engine on a naturally aspirated engine. I don't remember enough about engine operating theory to know about how accurate the 80-90% is but it sounds about right for a normal engine. I will say that engines are very poor at actually extracting the power from their fuel. I remember in my internal combustion engines courses that a gasoline engine can only extract 18-22% of the available energy in the fuel as most of the energy is lost to heat, friction, and some isn't burned. Diesel engines are in the mid to high twenty something percent range. However, when you add forced induction you can extract a little more energy out of the volume of fuel. I was very surprised at the above when I first heard it but even tested it in the lab on a few engines and the results were similar.
JB