Malco Eagle Grips from a different perspective.

[woody 73]

I know I am not one for beating a dead Horse and keeping him down on the ground, because this topic has been beaten to death here on the GJ. But I just found this video from Scoutcrafter and he goes about explaining his take on why the factory is closing up shop. Now long story short version for some of you not wanting to hear his long spiel, it boils down to money, namely who wants to pay over $50.00 per vise grip?

He makes a good point, I am not disagreeing with him, after all most people want to save some money, myself included; it makes me wonder about the future of tool production coming from the USA in the future. Anyhow some food for thought on this nice cold November Day.

 

[dnschmidt]

In case you haven't noticed tool production in the USA is dead to almost dead with respect to normal tools that normal people buy (that means not Snap-On). Some large companies like Milwaukee might be inclined to make screwdrivers and pliers in America because they've been hurt by post pandemic supply chain issues but in truth the war is over and we lost. Also, Vice-Grips are a particularly bad choice of tool to try to sell for $50 a pair as most people use these for really ****** jobs like welding and beat the **** out of them. Precision Instruments and CDI can make torque wrenches in the USA and stay in business due to the nature of torque wrenches. What Tekton is doing with their laser cut offset wrenches makes sense as well but any heavy forging and stamping isn't going to happen here as 1) people will not work these kinds of jobs anymore and 2) It cost too much when compared to equivalent products from Taiwan.

 

[qqzj]

Tool manufacturing is low tech dumb job. Not tool design or tools for making tools. The only way tool jobs will come back is to make people in USA as poor as elsewhere. Don't think that's a good idea

 

[bdbecker]

...Also, Vice-Grips are a particularly bad choice of tool to try to sell for $50 a pair as most people use these for really ****** jobs like welding and beat the **** out of them...

My thoughts exactly... I'm not sure what Malco's profit margin is or what their input costs are, but something just doesn't add up. If they could figure out how to get the price around $30 (like Knipex's locking pliers), I think they would be in a better situation.

 

[Etchase]

Anyone know what the pay scale was at the Eagle plant?

 

[ecotec]

If I had a real need… maybe I would pay that price…

I probably have 70-80 pairs of Petersens… of all different styles…and I paid an average of a dollar or two each. There are millions more out there…

I barely ever even use Vise-Grips…

I want American hand tool manufacturing to survive… but I spend my money on tools I actually need… and like I said… there are millions of pairs or Petersen Vise Grips out there for very little money… $50 is a drawer of Vise-Grips.

If you only go to estate sales that do not involve driving out of your way… and only buying cheap/lightly used pairs… you will probably have more than you need, of the common models/styles… in no time.

Maybe spend the money on the uncommon styles/models.

 

[Bubba Fett]

The only way to manufacture in the USA in a cost-effective way, is to automate as much as possible.

 

[qqzj]

The only way to manufacture in the USA in a cost-effective way, is to automate as much as possible.

Then what is the point of making them in USA? profits go to bosses and environmental damage goes to everyone.

 

[KnurledNut]

Malco has been profitably making high quality, reasonably priced domestic tools for a long time and continues to do so.
This isn’t their first rodeo.
We can speculate all day, but they had a good reason for dropping the venture and no doubt crunched all the numbers before doing so. Truth is, unless you were sitting in on their board meetings, we really don’t know the whole story, and likely never will.

 

[neophyte]

I know I am not one for beating a dead Horse and keeping him down on the ground, because this topic has been beaten to death here on the GJ. But I just found this video from Scoutcrafter and he goes about explaining his take on why the factory is closing up shop. Now long story short version for some of you not wanting to hear his long spiel, it boils down to money, namely who wants to pay over $50.00 per vise grip?

He makes a good point, I am not disagreeing with him, after all most people want to save some money, myself included; it makes me wonder about the future of tool production coming from the USA in the future. Anyhow some food for thought on this nice cold November Day.

The jaws on the two pairs of “cheap”( Irwin and Denali) locking pliers he shows are very similar to the jaws on some of the expensive Facom locking pliers, only the cheap locking pliers lack the extra jaw capacity of the Facom pliers that comes with the special Facom plier frame.
I’m not sure what manufacturer originated that jaw design.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Then what is the point of making them in USA? profits go to bosses and environmental damage goes to everyone.

Even though modern factories in the US are automated, there is still a need for humans to ensure the process is working correctly, and the technicians who install and maintain automated systems are getting work - at very good pay - I might add.

But Locking pliers are not easy to make. They are a somewhat complicated mechanism, which requires multiple parts, springs, a threaded adjuster, etc. But the patent has expired, and literally every tool brand has some variant, so competition is extremely stiff.

But USA manufacturing is still possible. Klein, Mayhew, Wilde, Channellock, Estwing, Vaughan, Tekton, Mag-Lite, and many other companies still do it (in various degrees), and are successful at it. For some, the tooling, and equipment has been long paid for, which is a plus. I think Malco thought they could make them the same way that Petersen did, and realized the overhead was simply too high.

 

[reader2580]

But USA manufacturing is still possible. Klein, Mayhew, Wilde, Channellock, Estwing, Vaughan, Tekton, Mag-Lite, and many other companies still do it (in various degrees), and are successful at it. For some, the tooling, and equipment has been long paid for, which is a plus. I think Malco thought they could make them the same way that Petersen did, and realized the overhead was simply too high.

My understanding is Malco did not have access to any of the former Petersen equipment. Maybe they would have been able to compete if they still had the old equipment. On the other hand starting over meant they could have purchased equipment with less cost to run and more automation.

Liberty Tabletop/Sherrill Manufacturing is producing flatware in the USA using equipment left in an old Oneida plant. I doubt they could have started the company without all of that old equipment. Heck, my employer built a manufacturing plant in 1986 with all new equipment. That equipment is still producing today, but due to greatly reduced sales, and therefore reduced production, the equipment is held together with a lot of duct tape and baling wire. The company cannot afford to replace the production equipment and would never be able to afford to build a new plant now. There is also zero profit in it compared to in the 1980s when the plant was planned.

 

[F-22]

In regards to forging, there's still lots of hand tool manufacturers in Germany that seem to do okay and it's a wealthy country like the USA, so I'd assume there has to be some other reason for why it's not profitable to make tools in the US, not just it demanding workers. There are some jobs (like in some parts of the US food industry) that'd seem way worse for me to work there.

 

[General Geoff]

Now long story short version for some of you not wanting to hear his long spiel, it boils down to money, namely who wants to pay over $50.00 per vise grip?

He makes a good point, I am not disagreeing with him, after all most people want to save some money, myself included

Yep, the Malco Eagle Grips could very well be the finest traditional style locking pliers ever built by man. But at $50 for a pair, will they last 3 times longer or grip 3x harder than a new pair of chinese Irwin Vise-Grips?

Maybe? I honestly don't know, haven't worn mine out to know for sure.

If so, then the world is losing a great tool out of ignorance and consumer preference that follows the race to the bottom dollar.

If not, then perhaps they are an artisan tool whose job by its nature is kind of cludgy, and improvised, and is often considered a consumable.

I'll tell you one thing, the Denali pliers he talks about were at one point down to $3.77 per pair. They're not absolute garbage, they're serviceable tools. I ordered a whole bunch of em at that price and I expect that will be a lifetime supply for me and my family.


Hot take: If Malco had done a blingy titanium nitride or other bougie but durable finish instead of nickel plating, they'd be selling a lot more. They need to stand out from the crowd more as a luxury item to justify the high price.

 

[qqzj]

Well, the Denali is $12.** right now. Not that cheap any more. I put a price watch at $5. Let's see whether it will get triggered ever.

 

[NFH2740]

Tool manufacturing is low tech dumb job. Not tool design or tools for making tools. The only way tool jobs will come back is to make people in USA as poor as elsewhere. Don't think that's a good idea

You best start believin' in third world countries. You're in one.

 

[CJM8515]

i think they priced themselves out of the market. 30 bucks woulda been possibly, but at 50 idc how good they are and usa made..thats to expensive

 

[Jim greengo]

All of my sheetmetal working tools are malco.
Everybody has their own thing they're good at making,my vise grips are all irwin/visegrip.
My channel locks are all channel lock brand.......

 

[LOW1]

It took a lot of time to get that factory open. That time represents a lot of money that needed to be recovered and given the relatively small market perhaps that is why the pliers were each so expensive.

So Malco now has this white elephant on its hands. Perhaps someone like Channelock can acquire the intellectual property, machinery and factory for twenty five to fifty cents on the dollar and make it work.

 

[dnschmidt]

It took a lot of time to get that factory open. That time represents a lot of money that needed to be recovered and given the relatively small market perhaps that is why the pliers were each so expensive.

So Malco now has this white elephant on its hands. Perhaps someone like Channelock can acquire the intellectual property, machinery and factory for twenty five to fifty cents on the dollar and make it work.

Dream on. The party's over turn out the lights.

 

[Junkdrawer Dog]

Also, Vice-Grips are a particularly bad choice of tool to try to sell for $50 a pair as most people use these for really ****** jobs like welding and beat the **** out of them.

This^^^^
I've always used them as a tool of last resort or to cobble together temporary repairs. They get abandoned in crawl spaces, rattle around in the bed of a truck, etc.. I know one guy who welded a pair to a stripped shifter shaft on his motorcycle as a temporary shift lever. No way I'm doing that to a pair of $50 beauties. Kind of like a chrome plated pipe wrench.

 

[anndel]

They priced themselves out of the market, plain and simple. I have 1, a 10" curved jaw and not planning on getting anymore. I have a bunch of original Petersen's from garage sales and that fits my needs.

 

[dutchgray]

This^^^^
I've always used them as a tool of last resort or to cobble together temporary repairs. They get abandoned in crawl spaces, rattle around in the bed of a truck, etc.. I know one guy who welded a pair to a stripped shifter shaft on his motorcycle as a temporary shift lever. No way I'm doing that to a pair of $50 beauties. Kind of like a chrome plated pipe wrench.

They got a Ferrari F40 in the shop by where I work with a pair on the steering column so they could move it.

 

[reader2580]

People wanting to pay $5 for a pair of locking pliers is why it is hard to manufacture them in the USA. The only possible way to make that profitable in the USA would be to have full automation, sales of many thousands per day, and use low quality materials. Even then, I am not sure the numbers would pencil out.

 

[William Payne]

Sorry old thread but as someone who welds and uses locking pliers. I will take the highest quality ones I can get. Nothing worse than sloppy worn-out locking pliers.

$50USD is expensive but if they are really good. I would have to try one to have an opinion.

An earlier post raised an interesting question. The Germans still make hand tools and many things in Germany, why is the USA business model so different?

 

[General Geoff]

An earlier post raised an interesting question. The Germans still make hand tools and many things in Germany, why is the USA business model so different?

Germans aren't so obsessed with consumerism. They'll have one pair of Knipex locking pliers instead of five chineseum pairs.

The bulk of American consumers fixate on cost above all else so they can have 'more'

 

[Ton ton]

The only way to manufacture in the USA in a cost-effective way, is to automate as much as possible.

It still takes a human or 2 to maintain the robots. So if a factory is in the USA they still have to keep a few people employed. I'm actually ok with robots in the USA as long as the finished product is decent quality.

 

[dutchgray]

Germany is set up such that small privately owned specialist manufacturing businesses can thrive, you can make one type of product to a high standard and do well long term. The attitude people have is to build something they can pass on to the next generation, not to build something then sell it and retire at 50.

The USA is currently set up to favour big corporations and they are all about the quick buck today and who cares if it all goes wrong in a few years because those in the top jobs will be stinking rich by then, they will find something to blame it on other than themselves and move on to the next victim.

 

[ord.avg.guy]

Sorry old thread but as someone who welds and uses locking pliers. I will take the highest quality ones I can get. Nothing worse than sloppy worn-out locking pliers.

$50USD is expensive but if they are really good. I would have to try one to have an opinion.

Agreed, getting a grip on an nearly impossible to get at rounded nut makes them worth it. I bought a couple Grip-ons after Vise Grips went off shore and many times have used the old Vise Grips to get a grip on things the Grip-ons could not grip and hold. Picked up a 10" straight jaw Eagle Grip a couple of years ago and have no regrips.

 

[Ton ton]

Germany is set up such that small privately owned specialist manufacturing businesses can thrive, you can make one type of product to a high standard and do well long term. The attitude people have is to build something they can pass on to the next generation, not to build something then sell it and retire at 50.

The USA is currently set up to favour big corporations and they are all about the quick buck today and who cares if it all goes wrong in a few years because those in the top jobs will be stinking rich by then, they will find something to blame it on other than themselves and move on to the next victim.

The current Japanese hand tools seem to have a solid following on garage journal as well. Some of the stuff is competitively priced too.

 

[drtyler]

Germany is set up such that small privately owned specialist manufacturing businesses can thrive, you can make one type of product to a high standard and do well long term. The attitude people have is to build something they can pass on to the next generation, not to build something then sell it and retire at 50.

The USA is currently set up to favour big corporations and they are all about the quick buck today and who cares if it all goes wrong in a few years because those in the top jobs will be stinking rich by then, they will find something to blame it on other than themselves and move on to the next victim.

This may be true about German tool makers, but Bollman locking pliers are nothing special. Frequently seen here rebranded as Knipex or Hazet.

 

[bwringer]

Personally, I think the world is ripe for a better locking pliers design.

I hate the damn crude wobbly things; even the "high quality" versions are just plain janky.

Who's making something that's not a crude glob of bent sheet metal and loose rivets?

 

[GeoBruin]

Personally, I think the world is ripe for a better locking pliers design.

I hate the damn crude wobbly things; even the "high quality" versions are just plain janky.

Who's making something that's not a crude glob of bent sheet metal and loose rivets?

The Eagle Grips are not "wobbly, janky, or crude" by any stretch, but if you're looking for a different design all together, check out the Facom Lock Grips.

 

[matthew]

I bought my Cobras because of the positive reviews on GJ, but also because I got them when they were on close out at Lowe’s quite a few years ago. They are fantastic, but I think there are a few lessons to take from it:

1. There will always be a few ‘boutique’ tool buyers. Building a big enough premium market means getting them in the hands of a portion of the market that is willing to pay more but needs convincing. I wouldn’t have believed how good Cobras were without being affordable to try out. Selling the 7WR at low margin to convince people it’s worth spending bucks on other styles might work. But only if there was a big enough catalog of other styles, and only if the 7WR was tooled to sell high volume/low price. That also requires discipline to not discount the other styles, and only sell them to the premium crowd.

2. If you use the Cobra example, a 250mm Cobra costs about 2-3x as much as Channellock 430’s. Which, in turn, cost about 2-3x as much as generic pliers. Eagle Grips vs. next best alternative was higher than that ratio in my area, so to me that implies that even for a premium tool, Eagle Grips were priced significantly too high.

 

[F-22]

Germany is set up such that small privately owned specialist manufacturing businesses can thrive, you can make one type of product to a high standard and do well long term. The attitude people have is to build something they can pass on to the next generation, not to build something then sell it and retire at 50.

The USA is currently set up to favour big corporations and they are all about the quick buck today and who cares if it all goes wrong in a few years because those in the top jobs will be stinking rich by then, they will find something to blame it on other than themselves and move on to the next victim.

That's really sad to hear, but seems to be a fact. Can hardly think of one classic niche US tool brand that wouldn't do a ton of other stuff. Maybe that Morgan vise company that's still in business?

The current Japanese hand tools seem to have a solid following on garage journal as well. Some of the stuff is competitively priced too.

The Japanese have most of the oldest companies in existance. Like 1500 years old companies that never went out of business! It's part of their national identity and personal pride, they don't sack a company like we do in the west cause it basically brings shame on their family. At least that's how I see it. The Japanese probably have way more domestic tool makers than the US which barely has a couple despite being so much larger and employing so much more people.

Who's making something that's not a crude glob of bent sheet metal and loose rivets?

Facom is pretty innovative, though I'd also love to see locking pliers with an all-forged design instead of sheet metal.

 

[qqzj]

Germany and Japan have old shops. But they don’t have Apple Google Microsoft Facebook intel and AMD. Maybe to get ahead, you need to let old tech go. It’s a price to go forward. Apparently, Americans get the better deal

 

[F-22]

Germany and Japan have old shops. But they don’t have Apple Google Microsoft Facebook intel and AMD. Maybe to get ahead, you need to let old tech go. It’s a price to go forward. Apparently, Americans get the better deal

Those are all global companies, you can "have Apple Google Microsoft Facebook intel and AMD" in any first world country. Besides, VW employs more people than all of those combined. Toyota probably as well. Or Bosch... If you look at what company gives the most jobs in the US, then that's Walmart and Amazon - and these two are a big reason why the small shops and craftsmen disappeared. Also plenty of other shops or McDonalds etc...

At the bottom line, it's no competition. But I worry the consumerism in the US will not sustainable forever.

 

[nadogail]

The times have changed, I don't know how much; but the rate of change seems to be increasing.

 

[Steve_P]

Personally, I think the world is ripe for a better locking pliers design.

I hate the damn crude wobbly things; even the "high quality" versions are just plain janky.

Who's making something that's not a crude glob of bent sheet metal and loose rivets?

Sure, after the Malco $45-55 "best in the market" product not selling enough to keep a factory running, someone needs to market an all forged, super precise, $50+ locking plier. Because the $45 Malco's flew off the shelves. Sounds like a great business opportunity, even if you can make them in China and try to sell them for $35 vs the $10-15 competition. Locking pliers do not need to have the same jaw play that a single-hinge-joint forged and fully machined pliers do; that's not required for their purpose. Yeah, it'd be nice, but no one will pay for it.

 

[richfinn]

It's a heck of a lot of money for a consumable tool (thats gonna get used and abused as welding clamps/stud pullers/temporary door handles, they are making the wrong product sadly.

I buy brand new Irwin Vice Grip 7r's from ebay for around £10 then throw them away when the teeth get worn.

They do the job for a Tenner!!