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Man Door Security -

Cemoto

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Aug 26, 2012
Messages
427
Location
Central Massachucetts
It is time for me to ask this question please.

I'm leaning toward a steel door w/ no windows.

In-swing doors can get rammed in, out-swing can pried open.

Any thoughts are well appreciated.

Thank you
 
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DetroitStyle

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Jul 16, 2012
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24
I'm replacing the old door in my garage that goes into the back yard. As it's not the only way in/out of the garage, I'm going with a swing in, that will have a brace inside
 

Grumpy365

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Brazoria County Texas
Steel door, no window, reinforce the frame with steel angle iron (weld tabs to top and bottom to facilitate bolting to floor and top plate), use a good deadbolt.
 

gte718p

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3,950
All depends on how serious you want to be, what your threat is, and how much money you want to spend. If someone really wants your stuff they are going to get it. You can put a vault door on your shop, but if your walls are standard studded and sheeted walls or metal buildings 5 minutes with a battery powered sawzall and you have a new door :)

MY preference is open in if I have an office or entry space. Open out if it opens directly into the shop. Open in is just more normal, but opening out always give me just a little more room to work with. I'm generally in very small shops.

I like steel, either angle or plate all round the door and the jack and king studs with three or four braces out to the next set of stud. It spread any impact over a wide area.
Good locks will stop your average criminal. I'm not exactly a master criminal, but I can pick your standard Home Depot lock in about 30 seconds.
 

Fifty

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Yamhill, OR
My shop is in an industrial building and I love the door. It's a very heavy steel commercial fire rated door with a heavy metal frame. It also has a Yale commercial deadbolt and opens out. I seriously think the cops couldn't even break it down! :lol:
 

slip knot

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Mar 22, 2010
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Texas gulf coast
Around here Code compliance requires and outward opening door on any commercial building. Some BS about fire escape non-sense.

One of our substations had a mortise lock fail and we couldn't get it open. < 5minutes with a sawzall and I had all hinges cut off the door. Door came right off.
 

canuckian

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Just finalizing the plans for the new shop now and the man door will be a steel solid core commercial door with a metal frame. I think it's made by the same company that makes the doors for the prison I work at - pretty solid. There's even an option for a metal lip on the knob side to deter prying. After i decided on that, I decided that all the windows would be piano-type windows mounted high. Need a ladder to peek in and even if you could see in, it'd take a pretty tiny person to get in through that opening. But, as with any building, if a thief wants in, they're getting in. The motion sensors and cameras will take over at that point.
 

Grumpy365

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Around here Code compliance requires and outward opening door on any commercial building. Some BS about fire escape non-sense.

One of our substations had a mortise lock fail and we couldn't get it open. < 5minutes with a sawzall and I had all hinges cut off the door. Door came right off.

You are just keeping honest people honest. Over half the shops I know of who were burgled, the thief came thru the wall. ( busted out block, tore off siding, etc.)
 

rharman

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You are not going to keep someone out if they really want in.

I had a wood door. Replaced it with metal clad when the time came (weather beaten). Swings out. Non-removable pins on the hinges and a deadbolt.

As someone mentioned, swing out may be a code issue. For sure it is a space/convenience issue in most cases.
 

slidehammer

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California Central Coast
But, as with any building, if a thief wants in, they're getting in.
I know what you mean but this old chestnut has always bothered me, because it isn't true. If the _right_ thief wants in, he's likely to get in, but plenty of thieves badly want things and fail to get them.

Sometimes they're deterred, sometimes they give up after trying. An imperfect defense is better than none.
 

TheGrooveking

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An alternate reality in a parallel universe.
Besides a steel door with a 1/2" steel plate outer and inner skins with inner arc hinges set deep in concrete wall and an excellent alarm with battery backup for hours with both in ground police contact wiring and cellular calling and a super loud horn and lights in unison to a good video system. Set into the wall nearby a small LCD monitor behind bullet proof glass that displays split screen video from the camera watching the door and the small camera in the door frame above the lock that shows their face. By the time they see the screen they quickly realize they are recorded.

TheGrooveking
 

canuckian

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I know what you mean but this old chestnut has always bothered me, because it isn't true. If the _right_ thief wants in, he's likely to get in, but plenty of thieves badly want things and fail to get them.

Sometimes they're deterred, sometimes they give up after trying. An imperfect defense is better than none.

the ones that don't get in aren't proper thieves in my books. They're lazy, un-motivated opportunistic meth heads who only steal things they can carry from behind unlocked or poorly locked doors. Those lazy opportunists are the ones I'm trying to keep out. Proper and motivated thieves will get in and get what they want and not care about the trail of destruction they leave behind or what security measures are in place (or know how to get around them). Could be a door-sized or car-sized hole in a wall or garage door, broken window, kicked in door, or simply a picked lock. The only thing I'm attemting to do about those guys is to make my property less attractive and more difficult to them so they'll move onto the next house. Most times simply having alarm company placards on your property will do the trick if your next door neighbor has nothing in place. Even that is useless if the thief decides to investigate a little more closely. Not hard to determine if the signs are fakes or not if you know what you're looking for. Proper thieves successfully break into high security buildings all the time, both reseidential and commercial. Very little will stop them.
 

Jeff

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Sonova Beach
Get a roll up door w/ remote option.

march-2010-3.jpg
 

Sledneck

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Dec 22, 2011
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Location
Ontario Canada
I'm glad I don't live anywhere near you guys.
All this steel door and steel frame talk is a worry.
Been building here in NZ for 45 years and all that
would be extreme overkill on most situations.

X2 I don't even have a lock on the man door, and I can't recall where the keys for the house are. I know where my car keys are, they are in the car!!!
 

Old Moparz

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Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,171
Location
Newburgh, NY 12550
I never understand the need for an expensive lock that costs more than the door itself. I also don't understand the need to turn the door into something equivalent of a bank vault when the walls around it are just one or two steps up from the security level of a cardboard refrigerator box. Unless you're in a really bad area where break-ins are frequent, I see no need to go overboard on locks & doors. Mine is an insulated steel door without a window with some minor improvements that cost less than $10.00 to do. I don't want to be burglarized but I have insurance to cover everything if it ever happens.

There are some inexpensive improvements you can do to make it less vulnerable to a break in.

1) Remove the short screws that hold the hinges to the jamb & replace them with screws that reach the studs in the wall framing.

2) Use screws long enough to reach the studs in the wall framing behind the striker plates, too.

3) Use a dead bolt lock, not just the door knob lock with the spring loaded catch that can be opened with a credit card.

4) Reinforced the door jamb, especially at the deadbolt & door knob area, with steel so it can't be kicked in by splitting the wood.

5) Install a door without a window & never install it adjacent to one that can be easily broken & unlocked by reaching in to turn the lock.

6) Motion sensor lighting aimed at entry points so if someone approaches the door the floodlights turn on. Also mounted high so bulbs can't be removed without a ladder.

*** It'll never be burglar proof no matter what you do. What you're after is to make it less desirable to break into by making it harder to get in or take a long time to get in.
 
Last edited:

theoldwizard1

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Feb 22, 2011
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43,077
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SE MI
You need a commercial steel door in a steel frame. Guards on the hinges. Guard by the "long throw" dead bolt cylinder. Extra dead bolts high and low will help.

Don't be surprised if it costs well over $1,000 !
 

obedia-h

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Jan 16, 2009
Messages
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Location
Near Pittsburgh PA
I have a solid wood door with 1/2" plywood screwed & glued to both sides and it opens in. I have an old garage door opener attached to a 2 X 6 board that drops into angle brackets to create a real secure lock/security dead bar. I have almost the same reinforcement on the roll up but no opener, Z bars securing the tracks and a "BIG" lock to the floor. Needless to say I've been robbed before,
 
OP
C

Cemoto

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Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
427
Location
Central Massachucetts
Some great reply's here. Thank you guys.

This is new construction. Not really a high crime area (yet), but always a good idea to be foresighted.

I've known about the long screws and steel plates but never would have thought of a steel frame commercial door - good one!

I'll look further into that.

Thanks again for all the responses.

Diesel Ron, I can't quite picture what you are describing..

Diesel ron
Re: Man Door Security -
I have a solid wood door with 1/2" plywood screwed & glued to both sides and it opens in. I have an old garage door opener attached to a 2 X 6 board that drops into angle brackets to create a real secure lock/security dead bar. I have almost the same reinforcement on the roll up but no opener, Z bars securing the tracks and a "BIG" lock to the floor. Needless to say I've been robbed before,
 
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NUTTSGT

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Northern Central Ohio
I have a piece of 10 gauge steel lagged into the wall studs. It adds a back drop to the bolts of the locks instead of just a wood frame.
 

Deltarat

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Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
341
You are just keeping honest people honest. Over half the shops I know of who were burgled, the thief came thru the wall. ( busted out block, tore off siding, etc.)
That's the reason I have a security system with sensors on the door and motion detectors for someone coming through the wall. Smoke and heat detectors too. A lot easier that building Fort Knox.
 

ADSR

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Jan 12, 2013
Messages
10,713
You are just keeping honest people honest. Over half the shops I know of who were burgled, the thief came thru the wall. ( busted out block, tore off siding, etc.)


This is the truth right here. They never use the door or windows.

Leave your rotty in there to take care of any unwanted guests.
 

kbs2244

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Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
14,065
I think I have seen something like what Diesel ron was describing.

The guy took a garage door opener and attached it horizontally to the wall the door was on.
The end that normally attaches above the door was about six inches from the door jamb.
It fit behind a workbench pretty well.
Instead of a 2x6 he had a piece of 2 inch pipe attached to the chain.
The pipe would slide through two pieces of 3 inch pipe welded to each side of the steel door frame.
In the end he had a steel, swing in door in a steel jamb, with a steel pipe mid-door to block it from opening.

He used a regular radio fob to activate it from the house.
 

kenfath

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Oct 17, 2006
Messages
358
Location
Upland, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldwizard1 View Post
You need a commercial steel door in a steel frame. Guards on the hinges. Guard by the "long throw" dead bolt cylinder. Extra dead bolts high and low will help.

Don't be surprised if it costs well over $1,000 !
You sir, are right on the money.

$962. delivered.<<<

Last time I was at the used building materials yard they had quite a selection of heavy duty mandoors. They had been salvaged from buildings being torn doown. Most were in really good condition and appeared to have been removed carefully AND had intact frames. Prices were in the $100-!50 range.
 

trbomax

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Mar 21, 2010
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2,556
Location
starvation lake,mi.
I'm just glad I dont live where I need to be so paranoid about it. Most of the time mine doesnt even get locked.I'd rather just have them walk in and take what they want as opposed to busting the building all up and still takeing what they want.
 

Thumper68

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May 16, 2013
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5,134
Location
Duluth MN
Commercial steel door with 2 dead bolts, the roll up has an opener but no remote, kill the breaker and you have to hit it with a truck! The best security is having a nosey neighbor. Mine walks his dog 4 or 5 times a day and checks the place for me, he has also been known to drive over with his high beams on if he hears someone around whne no one is expected.

On a side note he also plows my drive for free.
 

williaty

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May 16, 2010
Messages
829
I think a lot of the posters are missing the point of security upgrades. Security is not about keeping determined attackers who have time and access out. That can't be done. With a determined attacker who has the freedom to sit there and work on your security, they WILL get in and it doesn't matter how DoD-like your facility is.

What security upgrades do is to buy time, make noise, and make the insurance happy after your stuff has been stolen.

The second part is the one that catches a lot of people out. Insurance payouts now are largely dependent on the initial police report citing signs of forced entry. If you're using a normal lock and the perp bumps it open, or if you're using a normal strength door and the perp just shoulders the jamb hard enough to flex it and get the dead bolt out, it'll look to the cops like you either didn't lock the place or you "stole" your own stuff. The insurance won't pay out. For this reason, it's important to use locks that don't have braindead simple attacks that leave them looking undamaged. The only two locks I'm aware of sold in the US that aren't stupid-easy to open are the Abloy Protec2 and the BiLock model line. You'll pay upwards of $150 to as much as $250 per lock for them but literally everything cheaper has at least one way you can be through the lock in under 5 seconds without leaving any visible damage. To someone watching the perp enter your door, it just looks like he walked up and used the key to get in. Same idea with reinforcing the securing of the door. My Mom's house uses a door set between 2 window lights on either side of the door. The "jamb", such as it is, is just a 2x6 running vertically on each side of the door. The area the lights go into is just a piece of insulation foam with a 22 gauge sheet of metal on each side. When she locked herself out, I just came over and put my back against one side and pushed hard on the other. They spread away from each other and the door swung open. The insurance wouldn't pay out after an attack like that either, since there was no evidence of damage.

The other purpose of security upgrades is to buy time (for you, which equates to taking time away for them) and to remove the feeling of comfort they might have that they can just hang out there without attracting attention by forcing them to make noise. Buying time is important. At its most basic, if you're on the other side of the door being attacked, buying time allows you the chance to get armed, get your kids into shelter, and call 911. If the building is unoccupied, security can buy you time that either makes the perp get nervous about how long they've spent there or gives the police time to respond. Hardening the security also forces them to use tools that aren't as quiet as a bump key or a prybar. Harden things to the point that they have to use a battery powered angle grinder and they're going to be a lot less interested in doing that in the middle of the night in view of the street. Force them to break glass and that alerts you (which gives you time to get armed and safe) and may make them feel that they don't have as much time to loot your place. Breaking the glass rather than jimmying the lock also fulfills that insurance requirement for signs of forcible entry.


So, with all that wind out of the way, what am I doing?

Abloy Protec2 locks on all doors.
Door Jamb Armor (the serious stuff, not the easy to install stuff) on all doors.
No glass close enough to the deadbolt for someone to smash the glass, reach in, and throw the lock.
In the workshop where I'll never be inside with the door lock, the lock is also a double-deadbolt with no thumb lever on the inside (since that door does have glass in it)
TAPCO screens over all the windows (AWESOME products, check them out on Youtube) and French or Sliding doors.

At this point, I have forced them to break things to get in. Does that keep them out 100% for sure? Absolutely not. But I've forced them to do things that are noisy, may require tools, leave visible damage for the police/insurance, and are noisy enough to get through and take long enough to get through that it gives my wife and I the time to get awake, get secured, and call 911.
 

Air_Cooled_Nut

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Mar 28, 2007
Messages
492
Location
Portland, Oregon
Nice Will! Having been burgled before I have these suggestions:

  • Dusk-to-dawn lighting. Motion-detection lights are easily thwarted. Crooks love the darkness so don't give 'em any!
  • If you use motion-detection lighting, turn up the sensitivity! And use it as the secondary light source to your dusk-to-dawn lights.
  • Place lights up so high that a ladder is REQUIRED in order to change the bulbs. Also, the bulbs should have a fixture around them that must be removed in order to change the bulb. A solid one is better (like clear plastic) to protect the bulb from rocks ;)
  • Trim bushes away from the sides. If you or the missus MUST have big plants around the building then use roses or anything that has thorns :D
 

djjsr

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Sep 4, 2006
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4,796
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In the cornfields
A good strong frame and a deadbolt will keep out the amateur scumbag.

The weak area is the overhead door and there's not much you can do about it if someone really wants to get in.

I worked in a building that had very high quality industrial overhead doors. One weekend a guy came along with a simple pry bar with a fulcrum welded to it. He pried up the bottom of one of the doors in a few places to create an opening big enough to get through. It was a really well made bar. I surprised he left it behind.
 

williaty

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May 16, 2010
Messages
829
If someone can kick it in, it's not a very good frame.
Wood frame with the single point contact of the deadbolt means it's going in with a couple of good kicks, even if it's made out of decent wood and screwed to the wall properly. I agree with you that such a thing would fail the test of "good frame". However, it takes a combination of a wood frame with metal reinforcing at specific areas to rise to "good frame" that can't just be easily kicked in.
 
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