Map vs propane.....little torch

[90zcar]

So for a long time I have been using the little benzomatic propane bottles with a torch end to do little tasks like shrink tubing, melt ****, heat stuff up slightly. When I was in lowes yesterday I seen yellow map gas bottles also. They were over double the price of propane. What is the advantage of using strictly map gas?

I also saw a little map/oxygen kit for 60 bux. Is that like a mini oxy acetylene setup?






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[Skin]

There use to be a big difference with a product marketed as MAPP which has been long since discontinued and burned extremely hot. "Map Pro" is basically Propene. You don't need it for shrink tube. Either will be poor at heating up metal compared to a real O/A setup. Primary benefit is just faster pipe soldering/brazing.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

Irrespective of what torch you get, drop $10-15 on a heat gun - even a cheap one from Harbor Freight will do a better, safer job with heat-shrink.

Aside from the safety aspect, far less risk of leaving scorch marks on the heat-shrink, will make for a more professional looking job.

Just my £0.02

Matt

 

[90zcar]

Sorry I shouldn't have even said about heat shrink. I just forgot what I use it for half the time. I use it tho because I replace the bottle every so often.
And yes I do have a heat gun. That map/oxygen kit acts like u can cut metal w it. Not sure how well


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[geojag]

You might be able to cut aluminum but not much more. I use that setup to braze, it is sufficient, can't say much more. The BTUs of the map the sell at HD is barely more than propane.

 

[warweapon762]

Sorry I shouldn't have even said about heat shrink. I just forgot what I use it for half the time. I use it tho because I replace the bottle every so often.
And yes I do have a heat gun. That map/oxygen kit acts like u can cut metal w it. Not sure how well


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The old MAPP that has since been discontinued was able to cut sheet steel and do a little welding with pressurized oxygen, but this new stuff doesn't really get hot enough to do so.

Old mapp was pretty damn awesome.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Those little bottles of oxygen don't last long and are $$$ !

 

[geojag]

As close as I can figure that oxygen is better than $2 per minute.

 

[Bondo]

So for a long time I have been using the little benzomatic propane bottles with a torch end to do little tasks like shrink tubing, melt ****, heat stuff up slightly. When I was in lowes yesterday I seen yellow map gas bottles also. They were over double the price of propane. What is the advantage of using strictly map gas?

Ayuh,.... I've got a few of those TS4000s layin' 'round,...

I run a couple of Pavers durin' the summer, 'n lightin' fires is a common task,...

With a torch on each paver, 'n another in my truck for fixin' things that don't merit firin' up the O/Ac in back,...

As they've come, 'n gone, I've put together parts torches, 'n keep 'em 'round the house, 'n cottage,...

Need to light the grill,..?? ****, it's lit,....
Wanta campfire in the evenin',..?? ****, it's lit,....
Need to light the woodstove,..?? ****, it's lit,....

In my world, those torches are known as a "Boy Scout Match",.....

The Mapp gas runs considerably hotter than propane,...
Hot enough for silver solderin',.. heatin' 'n quenchin' small bolts,...

When the Mapp runs out on mine, I run refilled propane bottles,...
They'll still light 'bout anything that'll burn, on fire,...

 

[justme-]

the little mapp/o2 torch will heat steel to cherry pretty well, can braze and solder/sweat really quick. Supposedly it can be used to weld and cut - instructions are included with it to do so, but as said it consumes o2 so quick and the bottle has so little in it, it's not going to do much. I use mine at work - had it for years and used it occasionally at home. Our large propane/o2 setup is out of service and a couple bottles of o2 are cheaper in the time frame to get jobs done. Was able to heat a backhoe tooth tabs cherry to bend them and install the tooth with a single bottle of o2. ... about 10 minutes flame time.

 

[plain garage]

So for sweating 1/2" and 3/4" copper pipes, is there a reason to go MAP vs Propane?

 

[FullRaceMerc]

It's faster.

 

[theoldwizard1]

So for sweating 1/2" and 3/4" copper pipes, is there a reason to go MAP vs Propane?

As stated earlier MAPP does not exist any more. What is sold in the yellow cylinder is "MAP Pro" which is propene, which is close to the temp of propane.

Plumbers don't solder as much as they used to. AC guys still braze a lot and most use acetylene. The torch and bottle are more expensive, but they get the job done fast !

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

You shouldn't be using any torch for heat shrink. Yeah, it can be done if you're careful, but the correct tool for the job is a heat gun, period.

I like MAP and MAPP more than propane for sweating copper pipes, especially when I am working on an existing system. Yeah I suppose PEX and other alternatives are really catching on. I'm not a professional plumber, though, and I am thus usually just doing minor jobs on existing systems.

It's not good enough to weld or even braze or anything like that. It's like a better propane. It makes certain jobs easier than with propane. But it doesn't really open up possibilities for jobs that propane couldn't do. At least not in my experience.

 

[CNGsaves]

I used the yellow bottle "Map" gas that you find at Lowes for copper water pipe sweat solder joints. Worked fine once I got all the water out of pipe which is critical. Once your copper pipe is empty of water, your pipe prep (sanding/flux) really determines if you get good solder joint. Also important to have good solder.

 

[bcradio]

Ayuh,.... I've got a few of those TS4000s layin' 'round,...

I run a couple of Pavers durin' the summer, 'n lightin' fires is a common task,...

With a torch on each paver, 'n another in my truck for fixin' things that don't merit firin' up the O/Ac in back,...

As they've come, 'n gone, I've put together parts torches, 'n keep 'em 'round the house, 'n cottage,...

Need to light the grill,..?? ****, it's lit,....
Wanta campfire in the evenin',..?? ****, it's lit,....
Need to light the woodstove,..?? ****, it's lit,....

In my world, those torches are known as a "Boy Scout Match",.....

The Mapp gas runs considerably hotter than propane,...
Hot enough for silver solderin',.. heatin' 'n quenchin' small bolts,...

When the Mapp runs out on mine, I run refilled propane bottles,...
They'll still light 'bout anything that'll burn, on fire,...

Ninja status

 

[plain garage]

It's faster.

How much faster? Is it twice as fast since the map pro gas costs twice that of propane?

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

How much faster? Is it twice as fast since the map pro gas costs twice that of propane?

Depends on the job. In my experience it can sometimes be twice as fast if the job is a difficult one for propane, such as modifying an existing plumbing system that still has some water in the pipes (you can typically drain some water but often not completely empty them). Of course it depends on how far away that water is from the joint you are sweating, what the pipe size is, etc.

 

[Scimmia]

How much faster? Is it twice as fast since the map pro gas costs twice that of propane?

MAPP is faster, not map pro. Map pro has little to no advantage over propane.

 

[JDon99]

I have had one of the Map/Oxy torches for years. I have used it in the past to heat up something like a stuck fastener in a cramped engine bay. I have also welded with a coat hanger for the heck of it, it does work, just not very well. I think it would cut through thin metal, but not like your typical oxy/ac cutting torch.

 

[signcrafter]

So, why is MAP pro so much more expensive then propane since it only burns a few BTUs hotter? Is it just a matter of people thinking it's better and paying that much more for it?

 

[theoldwizard1]

So, why is MAP pro so much more expensive then propane since it only burns a few BTUs hotter? Is it just a matter of people thinking it's better and paying that much more for it?

Isn't marketing great !

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have 2 relatives that have oxy/acetylene rigs with small bottle sitting in their garages. I have bee trying to convince them to let them sit in my garage !

 

[Bondo]

So, why is MAP pro so much more expensive then propane since it only burns a few BTUs hotter? Is it just a matter of people thinking it's better and paying that much more for it?

Ayuh,.... It runs considerably Hotter,....

Hotter enough to make a difference anyways,.....

Alota things "Happen" in that window, 'tween the max output of propane, 'n the max output of mapp,.....

 

[lewis26]

Ayuh,.... It runs considerably Hotter,....

Hotter enough to make a difference anyways,.....

Alota things "Happen" in that window, 'tween the max output of propane, 'n the max output of mapp,.....

MAPP is considerably hotter. (5300)

Map Pro is only 3600, Whereas Propane is 3450.

You cannot get MAPP anymore.

"The effective BTU output is a measurement of the quantity of BTUs that actually go into the work piece when heated," said Paul Minter, VP / General Manager, TurboTorch. "Our lab tests have revealed that MAP//PRO has approximately a 10% greater BTU output over Propane and a 14% less effective BTU output than MAPP."
[news.thomasnet.com]

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ No such thing as . . . . . . MAPP . . . . . . anymore. That is old label to the former "hot" gas that you could actually purchase.

Now, just like Wizard says, stores are doing the Boondoggle and calling current yellow bottles . . . . . . Map gas . . . . . . or . . . Map Pro gas . . . . which is just a hotter version of propane. It's a marketing tactic (ie the ole Bait & Switch).

They really should just call it . . . . . "Hot Propane" . . . and price it at modest premium to propane . . . but hey Greed is run amuk and ALL forms of propane are grossly overpriced.

 

[gungatim]

there's an interesting thread over on the plumbing forum on this.

MAPP temp = 5300 and the 'new' MAP-pro is only a measly 3600, Propane is 3450

they also reference testing that the MAP-pro is about 10% more btu's than propane, while MAPP had 25% more, not sure how that correlates to temp though...

at any rate, I have used both propane and MAP-pro, and the MAP-pro didn't make any difference in sweating or soldering in my estimation.

One other thing, I find I can buy the camping bottles of propane cheaper than the plumbing size bottles. they're chunkier and shorter so not as ergonomic to hold, but I have big man hands anyway...

 

[NY_treeguy]

A turbo torch with propane seems to heat as fast as a MAPP torch with the newer bottles. JMHO.

 

[theoldwizard1]

they also reference testing that the MAP-pro is about 10% more btu's than propane, while MAPP had 25% more, not sure how that correlates to temp though...

BTUs out of the torch is what is important. Torch design can affect the BTUs being transferred to the item you are heating. This is why TurboTorch has basically 1 handle and many tips.

 

[gungatim]

BTUs out of the torch is what is important. Torch design can affect the BTUs being transferred to the item you are heating. This is why TurboTorch has basically 1 handle and many tips.

been researching this a bunch this morning, learning some interesting things.

BTU's being transferred are important, yes, but also the flame type seems to be an influence as well. says Acetylene has the BTU's concentrated in the narrow primary flame, while the propane and propolene's do a better job of spreading the BTU's out more widely in the secondary flame...

check out this guy's site for comparo's on the various gasses...pretty interesting if you've got nothing better to do...

http://www.weldreality.com/gasdata.htm

 

[Parrothead]

I have learned a lot from this thread. I just finished my last bottle of MAPP gas yesterday, and not for anything other than it was close and I wanted to bend an allen wrench of all things. I had no idea they quit making it, though I clearly don't use it much anyway. Oh well...

 

[jgorm]

About 10 years ago I switched to using the green camping propane bottles with my torches because they are more stable. I pull the ones with the metal bottoms from the recycle bins at camp sites. I fill them off my bbq style tank with the HF adapter. I have 2 of the TS4000s and love them! One in the RV, and one in the garage. I've probably soldered 500 Cu joints with this setup. Maybe it takes a few seconds longer, but it's damn near free.