Wingnut65
Well-known member
Everybody loves fire trucks! we used to run to the end of the street just to watch them race past. Now, Mark gets to play with one of his own! 
Congrats, Godspeed!
Congrats, Godspeed!
Mark's Monster Garage....3800 sq ft
- Thread starter IGO2XS
- Start date
BlackSheepSpeedShop
Well-known member
When can we see this air system? I am excited to see what you will do.
Mark;
Unless your goal is to build a hot-rod out of that fire engine, I'd think twice about re-powering it. Those are not exactly rare vehicles, and there should be no problem finding the necessary parts to rebuild the engine and drivetrain. For your stated purpose, the stock drivetrain should be more than adequate. And the truck will be considerably more valuable as a restored original. But even if you wanted to hot-rod it, this thing is a very heavy vehicle. While you could get it to drive more like a modern truck with a big diesel transplant, it will never be quick.
My volunteer fire department has a 1940 Mack patrol truck that we've restored and use for parades and rides for kids. What makes it a "patrol" truck is that instead of a hose bed in the back, it's got a pair of bench seats. It was designed to get additional firemen to the fire. Still has a pump, but its main purpose was to deliver personnel. Even as a 1940 vehicle, it has no problem carrying 10 people, (including the driver,) for rides around town, or transport to a parade. We've been using it like this for at least 30 years. I've driven it as far as 25 miles away to get to a parade, loaded up with firemen. Our town is VERY hilly, so it's geared pretty low, and tops out at 45mph.
BTW, about two years ago, someone forgot to check the fluids in our old Mack, and lunched the motor. We were able to get it rebuilt better than new by a fire apparatus specialty shop in Connecticut. Bottom end was all torn up, as was the valve train. 30 years of running unleaded gas without special additive probably did not help. At least now it's got hardened valve seats and can run safely on unleaded. It's not cheap to get motor work done on antique trucks, but there certainly are people who can do it.
One very important consideration should be wiring. Wiring for a vehicle that age is just no longer safe. And a fire engine has a lot of extra electrical equipment. The last thing you want is to make a massive effort to restore the truck, and have it burn to the ground. We had a close call with our old Mack, so we had the whole truck rewired. Rhode Island Wire made the harness for us. They can make a harness that looks exactly like the "period" cloth covered wire, but is actually modern wire underneath the braiding. All the fittings and connectors are period style as well. At the same time, we had every electrical component on the truck rewired or rebuilt. Total cost was about $10k, and that included all the labor for the wiring specialty shop that did all the work. They had the truck for about 5 months.
Finally, I'd make sure you get a specialist to go through the pump, with all new seals, etc. We had to have some weird copper parts machined for the pump in our old Mack, but the gaskets were all funky dished leather things, and we found NOS for them. One of the big events for old fire engines is to take them to "Musters". Kind of like a concours for old fire apparatus. Part of the judging is often to see them pumping.
One other challenge will be re-doing the gold leafing on the truck. It's kind of a dying art, so finding someone really good is not easy. Don't be sucked in by the computer generated gold leaf stuff; it will never look anywhere near as good. Hand done with a coating of clear lacquer over the top for protection is the only way to go.
Another GREAT project!
Unless your goal is to build a hot-rod out of that fire engine, I'd think twice about re-powering it. Those are not exactly rare vehicles, and there should be no problem finding the necessary parts to rebuild the engine and drivetrain. For your stated purpose, the stock drivetrain should be more than adequate. And the truck will be considerably more valuable as a restored original. But even if you wanted to hot-rod it, this thing is a very heavy vehicle. While you could get it to drive more like a modern truck with a big diesel transplant, it will never be quick.
My volunteer fire department has a 1940 Mack patrol truck that we've restored and use for parades and rides for kids. What makes it a "patrol" truck is that instead of a hose bed in the back, it's got a pair of bench seats. It was designed to get additional firemen to the fire. Still has a pump, but its main purpose was to deliver personnel. Even as a 1940 vehicle, it has no problem carrying 10 people, (including the driver,) for rides around town, or transport to a parade. We've been using it like this for at least 30 years. I've driven it as far as 25 miles away to get to a parade, loaded up with firemen. Our town is VERY hilly, so it's geared pretty low, and tops out at 45mph.
BTW, about two years ago, someone forgot to check the fluids in our old Mack, and lunched the motor. We were able to get it rebuilt better than new by a fire apparatus specialty shop in Connecticut. Bottom end was all torn up, as was the valve train. 30 years of running unleaded gas without special additive probably did not help. At least now it's got hardened valve seats and can run safely on unleaded. It's not cheap to get motor work done on antique trucks, but there certainly are people who can do it.
One very important consideration should be wiring. Wiring for a vehicle that age is just no longer safe. And a fire engine has a lot of extra electrical equipment. The last thing you want is to make a massive effort to restore the truck, and have it burn to the ground. We had a close call with our old Mack, so we had the whole truck rewired. Rhode Island Wire made the harness for us. They can make a harness that looks exactly like the "period" cloth covered wire, but is actually modern wire underneath the braiding. All the fittings and connectors are period style as well. At the same time, we had every electrical component on the truck rewired or rebuilt. Total cost was about $10k, and that included all the labor for the wiring specialty shop that did all the work. They had the truck for about 5 months.
Finally, I'd make sure you get a specialist to go through the pump, with all new seals, etc. We had to have some weird copper parts machined for the pump in our old Mack, but the gaskets were all funky dished leather things, and we found NOS for them. One of the big events for old fire engines is to take them to "Musters". Kind of like a concours for old fire apparatus. Part of the judging is often to see them pumping.
One other challenge will be re-doing the gold leafing on the truck. It's kind of a dying art, so finding someone really good is not easy. Don't be sucked in by the computer generated gold leaf stuff; it will never look anywhere near as good. Hand done with a coating of clear lacquer over the top for protection is the only way to go.
Another GREAT project!
Last edited:
One other point about re-powering that truck. Every pumper is designed to carry a good amount of water. If it was built to handle 500 gallons, that's 4,400 lbs. If you're using it for rides, etc, you can leave it empty. That's 4,400 lbs that it does not need to lug around, which is what will make the antique drivetrain that much more capable. Take off the hose in the bed, and you could lose another 750-1,000 lbs. So even if you're carrying 8 people in back, you could still be several thousand pounds ahead.
jwh
Well-known member
Old fire truck info check out www.spaamfaa.org (Society for Preservation and Appreciation of Antique Fire Apparatus in America).
Also check out Jay Leno's Garage. Jay has a restored '40s American LaFrance in his collection, also has done a few reviews of other trucks on his YouTube channel.
Also check out Jay Leno's Garage. Jay has a restored '40s American LaFrance in his collection, also has done a few reviews of other trucks on his YouTube channel.
Last edited:
Hmmmmm, lots of good stuff here guys. Bob Heine has posted one interesting video for all of us to see. Pretty cool really and I never knew anything like this existed out there. Those drill teams look like they are having alot of fun!!
We really dont want to "hot rod" the truck. You have given me some food for thought Skyline for keeping the original motor. Our thought process on this truck is to make it user friendly for the owners. They want to be able to jump in it and drive it..........have some fun with it. They will take it to parades, car shows, things of this nature. We even talked today about putting A/C in the truck......hidden of course because we want to preserve the truck by keeping all of the interior stock. So the thought was putting a carborated motor in it with an automatic transmission so they could drive it. Our main reason for getting rid of the flat head was because of lack of power.????
I am wondering about the value of this fire truck with an original motor or with an updated drivetrain. The customer has left all of this in my hands and I want to do right by them and make the best decision for the project. Thats why I bring this stuff up to you guys because I get a lot of good opinions on here.
We really dont want to "hot rod" the truck. You have given me some food for thought Skyline for keeping the original motor. Our thought process on this truck is to make it user friendly for the owners. They want to be able to jump in it and drive it..........have some fun with it. They will take it to parades, car shows, things of this nature. We even talked today about putting A/C in the truck......hidden of course because we want to preserve the truck by keeping all of the interior stock. So the thought was putting a carborated motor in it with an automatic transmission so they could drive it. Our main reason for getting rid of the flat head was because of lack of power.????
I am wondering about the value of this fire truck with an original motor or with an updated drivetrain. The customer has left all of this in my hands and I want to do right by them and make the best decision for the project. Thats why I bring this stuff up to you guys because I get a lot of good opinions on here.
Our 1940 Mack Patrol truck was appraised for $50k fully restored. Not a perfect restoration, but decent. It wins frequent awards at parades and shows. It would be hard to not put way more money into that Ford than it was worth if you're doing a full restoration.
And as far as being user friendly to drive, a great part of the experience of driving an old fire apparatus is the original experience. Yes they are a handful, take some skill to work the gearbox, and take a bit of muscle to drive, but that's the fun.
And as far as being user friendly to drive, a great part of the experience of driving an old fire apparatus is the original experience. Yes they are a handful, take some skill to work the gearbox, and take a bit of muscle to drive, but that's the fun.
rixtrix1
Well-known member
Mark, my shooting partner spent 22 years as an ***'t Fire Captain near Pjilly and is now a docent at the AZ Firefighters Museum. I'll ask him about the value with a stock driveline vs. modified for a show(off) truck.
kald
Well-known member
Congrats on the new shop Mark!! Looks terrific!! I haven't been on the site much lately and you were not kidding when you told me you were expanding.
Here is a little progress on my 61 Corvette. We decided to strip and paint the car but not do a frame off. Bob installed all new body bushings and we will detail the frame as much as possible but I just didnt want to go that deep. All the body and parts are primed right now so we are going to let the car sit and let the body work cure for 3 or 4 weeks. We will be painting the car its original color.
The engine is the most important part of this C1 because it is the 283 dual quad 270 hp model. Fortunately the car has the original block, cam, and heads it was born with through verification of production dates and casting numbers. The motor is going through our mechanic shop and we decided to freshin up the motor. We sent the heads out and now back we are painting all of the parts. We have another 3 weeks before we get our restored intake manifold and carborators back.
The engine is the most important part of this C1 because it is the 283 dual quad 270 hp model. Fortunately the car has the original block, cam, and heads it was born with through verification of production dates and casting numbers. The motor is going through our mechanic shop and we decided to freshin up the motor. We sent the heads out and now back we are painting all of the parts. We have another 3 weeks before we get our restored intake manifold and carborators back.
Last edited:
We are staring to disassemble the fire truck. Lots of rusted nuts on this bad boy!! We are keeping everything sprayed down with PB blaster. I am trying not take everything off and put in a box in the corner. I would like to restore what parts we can as we get them off the truck and order what parts we need as we see fit. I definitely do not want to get this truck painted and then try to figure out what we took off the truck and how to restore the pieces.
panthersteve
Well-known member
Hi
Sorry to drastically change subject, but did I see someone from God Speed Rides on Search & Restore ?
Cheers
Steve
Sorry to drastically change subject, but did I see someone from God Speed Rides on Search & Restore ?
Cheers
Steve
rixtrix1
Well-known member
AS Skyline says above, my friend Mark says to keep the original driveline for value and sentimental sake. The lack of water and hose DO make a huge difference in the way the truck will motivate with the original drivetrain, he says.
Wingnut65
Well-known member
So, to order parts for a 1948 Ford F6 Fire Truck, are there reproduction parts available? I guess being a Ford, there should be parts around, but what about the fire apparatus parts?
Pretty much nothing is available, except at swap meets, and wrecking yards. Finding parts is like finding a needle in a haystack. You can get new canvas hose, (with old style brass ends), and you can get new rubber hose for the booster reel, (Neidner). You might find some NOS service parts for the pump, as there were probably a lot more of those pumps made than similar trucks made. You can get pump panel gauges rebuilt. You can get tubes for the fire radio. Most likely, missing or badly damaged parts will need to be fabricated.
Keep in mind that while big cities often had many trucks made the same, most fire apparatus is made to custom specification. Many are completely unique.
As an example, back in the late 50's our fire department decided to replace the rotting wood running boards on our antique Mack with steel diamond plate. If we want to go back to wood, we'll need to find the cast rear corners. They simply don't exist in a parts bin somewhere. Our only option will be to copy the ones from a similar truck, and have them cast. Luckily, a neighboring town has a 1938 Mack that has the correct part to copy. But just this pair of items will become a major undertaking.
Last edited:
I am working my way to thinking this way for a few reasons thanks to you guys. I guess I am going to hire Skyline as an advisor on this project.
He has alot of knowledge so hoping he hangs around......hint hint.No you didn't but maybe someday!!
Oh, and Skyline was discrete enough to PM me a picture of a 1938 Mack hotrod firetruck with a viper v10 in it........it is way too cool not to share......
panthersteve
Well-known member
No you didn't but maybe someday!!
Hi, thanks for the reply, I was so sure that it was that I had to go looking.
This is Tom from God Speed on Search & Restore
I realise that you are God Speed Rides but the logo is so similar there must be a connection ?
Cheers
Steve
Craptain
Well-known member
Hi, thanks for the reply, I was so sure that it was that I had to go looking.
This is Tom from God Speed on Search & Restore
I realise that you are God Speed Rides but the logo is so similar there must be a connection ?
Cheers
Steve
As I recall when Mark first announced the name "Godspeed Rides" I did a search and found a another one somewhere north of here, Indiana maybe or Idaho?
Coincidentally? they had the same logo. or maybe Mark did some kind of deal that he has not told us about. Can't remember the details and don't really care now. Godspeed Rides is now a Sarasota business. I am sure Mark will tell us if it is important or relevant.
edit: This was the place.
317.902.0925
GodSpeed Rides
55B Mardale Drive
Brownburg, Indiana 46112
Last edited:
Wingnut65
Well-known member
Bob Heine
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Hi, thanks for the reply, I was so sure that it was that I had to go looking.
This is Tom from God Speed on Search & Restore
I realise that you are God Speed Rides but the logo is so similar there must be a connection ?
Cheers
Steve
Mark mentioned his new partner back in post 2021. It's May so I think the Indiana shop is closed and Thom is part of Mark's team, with Mark doing the "running" of the business and Thom using his creative skills. Thom and his significant other are on the right in the group photo....
Hey guys.....thank you so much for hanging in there for meWith all of your support I have almost felt a obligation to keep this "thing" going.
Many turns have been taken and somehow this "garage" has given me the opportunity to enjoy my love of cars. It has also given me a place to play, dream, and build some really nice cars. Somewhere along the way this turned into much more.
I must admit I started looking at larger facilities about the time I met Thom. The chance encouter was through the internet. Ironically he lived only miles from where I grew up. A GM engineer Thom left to start his own business. As a metal shaper, frame builder, wiring genius, and computer expert he built quite a nice business. Myself with our ever expanding crew was looking for a guy just like Thom. I was acutally looking for something less and what we got was a jackpot so to speak. Thom also wanting to grow was moving more out of "running" a business and more into his creative skill. What we share in common is a good work ethic. A plan was made and we decided to join forces. Thom has a complete metal working facility we will be moving to Florida in May.
Not only did we acquire a great talent, but we were also able to acquire a special new name for our business............GodSpeed Rides. What a name and a new beginning for our next level move. Our website will be lauched soon and I cant wait to turn you guys onto it.!! Thank you for being here for me and I really apprecite all you guys have done for me.
Craptain
Well-known member
Clarity!
It was as I thought but somehow missed the actual post.
Thanks Bob for keeping us straight.
panthersteve
Well-known member
Clarity!
It was as I thought but somehow missed the actual post.
Thanks Bob for keeping us straight.
I too thought there must have been some connection but had missed it too, I must have been paying more attention to the cars/trucks
Steve
I did not realize Thom had been on Search and Restore. Thom is the newest member of the team and he is from Indiana. It irronic his shop is only 8 miles from our family farm in Indiana. When we decided to join forces and Bob pointed out he did offer his name to me. It was hard for me to turn it down as it was so cool and we were struggling with an appropriate name. Yes, Thom is more interested in excercising his talents than running the business. I must say there is a lot to making all of this happen and run smoothly. I cannot tell you the stress involved with running a business.........I can also say after a good hard days work of labor it feels pretty good so maybe Thom had the right idea!!!
We have the front fenders and hood off finally. These bolts are not coming loose without a fight!
My friend Terry "The Plumber" stopped by the shop today to give me a hand with some of the large pipes on the fire truck. Terry has a large plumbing business in town but has other people running his business so he has alot of free time.
He helps me quite a bit. He is holding the 48 inch pipe wrench I gave him for Christmas last year. It was one of the big Rigid pipe wrenches my grandfather used on the farm. I restored it and knew Terry would enjoy having it.
We have the front fenders and hood off finally. These bolts are not coming loose without a fight!
My friend Terry "The Plumber" stopped by the shop today to give me a hand with some of the large pipes on the fire truck. Terry has a large plumbing business in town but has other people running his business so he has alot of free time.
He helps me quite a bit. He is holding the 48 inch pipe wrench I gave him for Christmas last year. It was one of the big Rigid pipe wrenches my grandfather used on the farm. I restored it and knew Terry would enjoy having it.
Wingnut65
Well-known member
My friend Terry "The Plumber" stopped by the shop today...
.. He helps me quite a bit. He is holding the 48 inch pipe wrench I gave him for Christmas last year. It was one of the big Rigid pipe wrenches my grandfather used on the farm. I restored it and knew Terry would enjoy having it.
It's always great to see good deeds returned.
But the big question is, did the 48" wrench do the job on the 66 year old rust?
It's always great to see good deeds returned.
But the big question is, did the 48" wrench do the job on the 66 year old rust?
Yes it did Wingnut......with the help of a lot of wd 40!!!
Sorry guys but I have one crappy picture from the first few days of ownership of the old part of the warehouse. I am not sure what the spots are on the picture but its the only picture I have
. This room had insulation made out of shreded newspaper. We stripped all of it off because it looked so bad. Today the insulation guys showed up to take care of the icining. We also sprayed the walls up on the second floor as well. I plan on covering the walls with plywood and possible using wire lath and stucco for the finish. I also thought about aluminum panels but I didnt think they would be as durable.
We are still pulling the fire truck apart. We have the entire front end off and ready to pull the cab tommorrow. We used some big 8" 40 grit discs to buzz the paint down on the doors and fenders. Its is one dirty job!!
These pictures are probably not so interesting as the fire truck but it should be a pretty cool modification. We really like clean fire walls and engine compartments at GodSpeed Rides and we have a chance to work some magic on our 58 Corvette Resto Mod project. The LS3 takes up alot of room in this car so it is pretty tricky to work around it but Bob is doing a great job of tackling this job. Once done all of the suspension will not be visible from the engine compartment and the inner fenderwells we extent all the way back to the fire wall.
don long
Well-known member
That engine bay looks sooo good that it makes me want to go back and pull one of my vette project down and get back to it (them)
Too many projects too little time (energy)
Too many projects too little time (energy)
Wingnut65
Well-known member
That insulation will make a world of difference in the place. Great idea on the plywood on the walls to provide some impact protection from stuff bumping into it. The stucco would be nice, but really cosmetic to add more icing on the cake.
BTW, those flying orbs are dust particles in the air that your flash caught floating by. I get those a lot on my project visits... room looks great and ready for a shot, but the flash makes it look like snow.
Keep up the great work on the Vette and fire truck! Just remember which parts go back on which ride!
BTW, those flying orbs are dust particles in the air that your flash caught floating by. I get those a lot on my project visits... room looks great and ready for a shot, but the flash makes it look like snow.
Keep up the great work on the Vette and fire truck! Just remember which parts go back on which ride!
You know your probably right.....the stucco probably isn't necessary but the plywood is. I also understand the icining is a little flamable so I probably want to keep the insulation protected from sparks? I am really concerned about keeping track of the fire truck parts.......its unfamiliar territory so lots of pictures are being taken.
Don, could you please ship your sandblasting booth to Sarasota for a few days......I really could use it on this fire truck project.
We pulled the cab off the fire truck today. I was trying to figure out the best way and noticed a ridge on each side of the cab. I got our straps we use to pull Corvette bodies off the frame and it worked nicely. Deanna jumps up on top of the truck to hook the ******** the forklift and rides as I lift the cab up about 10 feet in the air.
I know I havnt talked about my 63 split window project for a while but I have been waiting on the frame and some fiberglass parts. Last week the frame went into production so I should have it in a few weeks. I am very excited about this. Today my widened rear quarters came in so I was pretty excited to see some parts we can start working with.
Hostyle
Well-known member
Just finished reading all 108 pages (in between jobs at work and at home). Wow... just, wow...
The amount of work you've put into everything is insane, but the results are well worth it. Keep it up!
The amount of work you've put into everything is insane, but the results are well worth it. Keep it up!
Fastphil
Well-known member
We are still pulling the fire truck apart. We have the entire front end off and ready to pull the cab tommorrow. We used some big 8" 40 grit discs to buzz the paint down on the doors and fenders. Its is one dirty job!!
Do you have any plans in place as to the new door logos? If you were to recreate the originals, I hope you documented and photographed them before grinding them away. While all fire trucks are cool, I think the lettering is what makes them really pop, so I hope you have something cool up your sleeve!
thank you very much and I appreciate your taking the time to read all our history. I hope to keep this train rolling.
I did document them but not sure if we will be used or not. The reason I say this is the owners own an insurance company and this truck will be a little bit of a promotional tool for them. This is why we have talked about a new modern drive train because they want something they can drive around to events with comfort. We have a meeting tomorrow to discuss some of these options and to work on a direction for the build.
I was on three different builds for Search and Restore. The only TV show that did not have drama involved. I had turned down many others just for that reason. Search and Restore gave back to some really good people. People that I am still friends with today.
I started GodSpeed Rides in 2007. My passion is in metal shaping and chassis building. Running a business you spend so much time, chasing parts, dealing with employees and running a business that my passion did not get the time I sought after. I am a Mechanical Engineer, and I left that because I was not able to spend my time engineering rather I was always doing paper work and finding cheaper methods.
When Mark offered me this opportunity I saw it as a way to get back to my passion of building, shaping metal and making truly one off vehicles for passionate people. I am looking forward to starting next month. Many customers will continue to bring there work to GodSpeed Rides and I am thankful for that.
Enjoy the ride, its going to be great.
Thom
I started GodSpeed Rides in 2007. My passion is in metal shaping and chassis building. Running a business you spend so much time, chasing parts, dealing with employees and running a business that my passion did not get the time I sought after. I am a Mechanical Engineer, and I left that because I was not able to spend my time engineering rather I was always doing paper work and finding cheaper methods.
When Mark offered me this opportunity I saw it as a way to get back to my passion of building, shaping metal and making truly one off vehicles for passionate people. I am looking forward to starting next month. Many customers will continue to bring there work to GodSpeed Rides and I am thankful for that.
Enjoy the ride, its going to be great.
Thom
Fastphil
Well-known member
It's good to hear from you, Thom, and welcome to GJ!
Hey Thom!! Welcome to GJ.
Hey guys this is your first introduction to Thom who is our "engineer", metal fabricator, computer genius, marketer, and talented hot rod guy.
Our entire operation is based on teamwork and we are so excited and honored to be able to have such a talented individual consider to be a part of our family. Thom is so kind to consider doing all of the fun talented stuff while I have to do all of the crappy, unrewarding, pain in the **** administrative stuff. . Wingnut65
Well-known member
Welcome to Florida, Thom. We don't get as much snow down here as Brownsburg does, but it can get warm. And our beaches are much nicer! We have family up in Brownsburg that down every year to enjoy our beaches.
Glad you and Mark have joined forces. From the projects you have done in the past, I can't wait to see what the future holds for GodSpeed Rides!
Glad you and Mark have joined forces. From the projects you have done in the past, I can't wait to see what the future holds for GodSpeed Rides!
56vette461
Well-known member
Hey Thom!! Welcome to GJ.
Hey guys this is your first introduction to Thom who is our "engineer", metal fabricator, computer genius, marketer, and talented hot rod guy.
Hey Mark, Are you serving cheese with this whine????
While you are crying about admin stuff etc. What about us that only get to watch from afar
Last edited:
Thom,
Welcome to the journal, it looks like you have a great group of guys to work with here!
This quote of yours really hit home with me as I am in the same boat as you were. This is the way I feel about my current Engineering job, and I count the minutes until I can get home and back in the garage or my machine shop. Hopefully some day I can find take a similar direction as you did. I'm keeping my eyes and ears open for the right opportunity. Until that day comes, I'll just continue to daydream and drool over the work you guys are doing down in Florida!
Congrats and wishing you all the best.