Masks empty shelves?

[AA/FC]

Lol, OK. Whatever you wanna think. And I never mentioned the word "custom".

And if someone asked me right before I jumped into a freezing lake if I wanted to go naked or wear a t-shirt, I'd take the shirt. For all the good it would do me...

Okay, you think my example was funny.... Wait another two or three weeks when this deal explodes in this country and walking into any grocery store (for example) will be esentially the same as "walking into a room full of infected people".

There are many videos on the internet of doctors and other medical professionals telling everyone that masks absolutely do help prevent infection. In fact, several of them have said it's almost criminal that the government has told people not to wear them.

You're free to come to your own conclusion, as am I.

 

[M6erfan]

Okay, you think my example was funny.... Wait another two or three weeks when this deal explodes in this country and walking into any grocery store (for example) will be esentially the same as "walking into a room full of infected people".

There are many videos on the internet of doctors and other medical professionals telling everyone that masks absolutely do help prevent infection. In fact, several of them have said it's almost criminal that the government has told people not to wear them.

You're free to come to your own conclusion, as am I.

Of course they help. I never said they didn't.

If properly fitted.

Nobody gets "fitted" for a disposable product. These are basically one-size-fits-all. Nobody gets custom-fitted masks specifically tailor made made to fit their face. Sure, they may go through training seminars on a regular basis, but that is NOT the same as "being fitted".

You seem to know better than one of the largest hospitals in one of the largest cities in the U.S. about how masks are fitted. Sorry, but I'll go with that hospitals protocols...

 

[AA/FC]

Of course they help. I never said they didn't.

If properly fitted.

Lol, then why argue with me?

And yes, properly fitted, which is NOT rocket science. There are countless trades and industries that use these masks on a daily basis.... doctors and nurses are not the only people smart enough to properly use them. LOL

 

[M6erfan]

Lol, then why argue with me?

And yes, properly fitted, wich is NOT rocket science. There are countless trades and industries that use these masks on a daily basis.... doctors and nurses are not the only people smart enough to properly use them. LOL

To prevent catching a deadly virus???

You missed the point completely and keep moving the goal posts. I'm out. GL with your masks.

 

[AA/FC]

To prevent catching a deadly virus???

No, to prevent other dangerious particles from entering their lungs which could potentially cause other life threatening conditions.

 

[AA/FC]

You missed the point completely and keep moving the goal posts. I'm out. GL with your masks.

Moving goal posts? Lol.... Just because you're wrong doesnt mean anyone has moved a goal post. Lolol

 

[M6erfan]

Moving goal posts? Lol.... Just because you're wrong doesnt mean anyone has moved a goal post. Lolol

It's wrong that masks need to be properly fitted. Wow. Just... wow.

My sig line now activated.

 

[AA/FC]

Please, enlighten me what I was "wrong" about...

You have told us that unless people "get fitted" and get trained that masks are esentially ineffective. Right?

 

[AA/FC]

It's wrong that masks need to be properly fitted. Wow. Just... wow.

My sig line now activated.

I never said it was "wrong". My message the entire time has been "some protection is better than no protection". In fact, this is now the third time I have typed that in this thread today.

And by the way, I love how you go back a re-edit all your posts to change what you've said. Anyone who reads this thread can see that you've edited your posts.

Bottom line.... even if people don't work in the same hospital where M6erfan's friend or family member receives their mask training and "fittings", and a mask doesn't fit 100% perfect, a person is still better off with some protection, than no protection (now fourth time I typed that in this thread today)

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

On our local hunting forum of all places, they have run a 63 page thread on it.

Some points, by the math, percentage lethal found by South Korea's excellent testing, .6% (< 1% on a healthy population) there are at least a couple of thousand cases in Washington state. It's a bad combination of being very contagious and lethal .Which means it's too late, it's in the general population. Since N-95 masks are mostly made in China, and China is shut down, the limited number of masks should be reserved for heath care professionals only.

It suggested that the States are 3 weeks behind Italy.

 

[rlitman]

It's wrong that masks need to be properly fitted. Wow. Just... wow.

Proper fitting for a disposable N95 mask involves bending the metal nose strip. Haven't you taken your OSHA 10 & 30?

 

[rlitman]

On our local hunting forum of all places, they have run a 63 page thread on it.

Some points, by the math, percentage lethal found by South Korea's excellent testing, .6% (< 1% on a healthy population) there are at least a couple of thousand cases in Washington state. It's a bad combination of being very contagious and lethal .Which means it's too late, it's in the general population. Since N-95 masks are mostly made in China, and China is shut down, the limited number of masks should be reserved for heath care professionals only.

It suggested that the States are 3 weeks behind Italy.

Here's a link to back that up:
https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-coronavirus-testing-death-rate-2020-3

So, we have the WHO, stating 3.4% global death rate, and a greater than 5% death rate in the US, with China having a 4% death rate.

But then you look at these cruise ships and have to consider the numbers there. The ships are a fantastic natural experiment, with good numbers and complete testing.

Take the Diamond Princess. 3618 people were tested, and 696 tested positive before disembarkation, but more tested positive only later. There were 7 deaths, and 410 asymptomatic cases.

7/696*100=1% death rate; though that's assuming perfect testing. All tests have both false-positive and false-negative rates, which is something I have not at all heard about in the media yet. In particular, my concern is that since each country seems to be developing its own test, the error rates will vary widely by country.

The numbers we have show that everyone leaving this ship was tested, and that 59% of the positive tests were associated with no symptoms whatsoever. But once the passengers left the ship (with their negative test results), more of them ended up developing symptoms and testing positive.
As best I can find, there were 9 cases that tested positive during their secondary quarantine, after showing symptoms. But that implies there were at least another 15 carriers in secondary quarantine that were infected but asymptomatic (and so were not re-tested). That's not enough to significantly change the 1% death rate, but if the testing performed is anything like influenza testing (and I have no reason just yet to believe that it is more accurate; with the only official literature I can find stating that tests have been optimized to minimize the false positive rate), then the false negative rate could be surprisingly high, and there could be as many as twice the asymptomatic carriers, which could halve the death rate and match the South Korean numbers.

 

[Marctrees]

Can someone answer this please -

In the USA we have had "X" number of deaths from this virus.

How many deaths in USA from OTHER flu viruses in this same time period ?

Marc

 

[visionguru]

Can someone answer this please -

In the USA we have had "X" number of deaths from this virus.

How many deaths in USA from OTHER flu viruses in this same time period ?

Marc

The flu probably has killed 20,000 this season, which isn't over yet.

According to CDC website, during 2018~2019 season, there were estimated 35,520,883 flu cases, resulted in 34,157 deaths. The death rate is 0.1%.

Yeah, corona virus has "only" killed 20 some people in the US so far, nothing comparing with flu, but flu has vaccine, drug treatments, and not as easy to transmit. The death number was AFTER more than 60% of the population got the flu shots.

If this virus is left alone, 1/3 or 1/2 of the whole population in US will be infected. We are talking about 100,000,000 or 200,000,000 people. With the death rate of 3.4%, that's 6.8 MILLION deaths. By then, flu will be nothing in comparison.

The killing potential is what we should be afraid of.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Don't panic, read the report that rlitman has linked . The odds are greatly in your favor . The internal travel restrictions, school closures, etc. are only there to slow the tidal wave of patients hitting the healthcare system, not to stop it. Other people have need of the system for regular stuff. So if they don't have enough masks, the patient may have another complication. Let's hope they can find some masks.

So if 35,000 die from the flu at .1%, we can expect 6x that number.

 

[chipjumper]

We can’t even realistically test for it right now. A testing metric needs be standardized to quickly rule out those who have the common cold, seasonal flu,etc and then take the odd cases and test them for the Wuhan Plague.
It’s already here folks. FOR MONTHS infected people have been circumnavigating the world. Not a da** thing said about passengers on those flights who were near the patient-zero’s. If the coughing schmuck went to use the lavatory then anyone around them there could be infected too. The Wuhan Plague carriers are all over the place now. This is elementary. I cough into my hand, I grab a hand rail, you grab it after me, you touch it and then touch your nose ITS OVER. You got it.
BUT it’s just a flu issue... Just imagine if this was something worse...
A long long time ago I heard a scientist say that the biggest viral threat to the world is the Boeing 777. Now we all see how that works.

 

[unslow1]

I have a bunch of those N95 masks who is bidding?

 

[dogdog]

every one is afraid of coughing now.... they haul you to the hen house

 

[gte718p]

The flu probably has killed 20,000 this season, which isn't over yet.

According to CDC website, during 2018~2019 season, there were estimated 35,520,883 flu cases, resulted in 34,157 deaths. The death rate is 0.1%.

Yeah, corona virus has "only" killed 20 some people in the US so far, nothing comparing with flu, but flu has vaccine, drug treatments, and not as easy to transmit. The death number was AFTER more than 60% of the population got the flu shots.

If this virus is left alone, 1/3 or 1/2 of the whole population in US will be infected. We are talking about 100,000,000 or 200,000,000 people. With the death rate of 3.4%, that's 6.8 MILLION deaths. By then, flu will be nothing in comparison.

The killing potential is what we should be afraid of.

You skipped an important details. I know details are annoying but important. you mixed estimated and actual cases. There are 700 confirmed cases. There are between around 700,000 are an estimated cases of COVID-19. Of those 20 have died.

 

[AA/FC]

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specifically here on GJ, but comments all over the internet from people who don't know what they're talking about make it sound like all of our N95 masks come from China and that is simply not true. Sure, I realize 3M isn't the only manufacturer of masks but they're one of the biggest...

I know of at least two 3M factories (probably more now) working 24 hours a day here in the US making N95 masks. This is a quote from the 3M wiki page:

3M operates 80 manufacturing facilities in 29 states, and 125 manufacturing and converting facilities in 37 countries outside the US (in 2017).

In an article posted on 3M's website they specifically say they produce these masks in many different countries:

While 3M manufactures millions of respirators per month at production facilities in the United States and China, as well as in Latin America, Europe and Asia, we expect demand for respirators and other supplies to outpace supply for the foreseeable future.

They also talk about local manufacture for local supply. The maks they make in their factories in China are typically sold in China:

3M’s manufacturing model emphasizes local for local, which means the majority of our products made in China are sold in China, for example. We continue to manufacture personal protective equipment in multiple areas around the world, including in the United States.

Link to the full article for anyone who wants to read it: https://news.3m.com/blog/3m-stories/3m-responds-2019-novel-coronavirus

 

[mobiledynamics]

Am I having a moment or did some CV19 threads in the Free Parking get blackholed ?
The CV19 threads over here at GJ are the only ones I am just reading to see different POV.

Wishful thinking I suppose, but I'm going to expect at least one of us in the immediate household will need to self quarantine eventually. The single person who does, ultimately also will affect the -flow- of how things work in the house, etc. I'm errring on the side of precaution. Fridge/freezers are are stocked as can be. etc, etc.

 

[chipjumper]

I have a bunch of those N95 masks who is bidding?

Bag ‘em and sell them on eBay. $29 shipped for five in a zip loc. 6” square boxes are $0.55/ea at wal mart. Postage is an average of $3 for First class (5oz for five masks, 7oz for ten).
I know someone that I made $400+ in a day from selling new old stock (expired) 3M N95 masks...

 

[gatlibs]

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specifically here on GJ, but comments all over the internet from people who don't know what they're talking about make it sound like all of our N95 masks come from China and that is simply not true. Sure, I realize 3M isn't the only manufacturer of masks but they're one of the biggest...

I know of at least two 3M factories (probably more now) working 24 hours a day here in the US making N95 masks. This is a quote from the 3M wiki page:


In an article posted on 3M's website they specifically say they produce these masks in many different countries:


They also talk about local manufacture for local supply. The maks they make in their factories in China are typically sold in China:


Link to the full article for anyone who wants to read it: https://news.3m.com/blog/3m-stories/3m-responds-2019-novel-coronavirus

I remember for sure that most safety glasses were made in China, but I'm not 100% sure that when I looked in the distant past that the same applied to masks from 3m. Masks in general, yes, from 3M, I'm not sure. I'd say that 3M makes much of many of it's products domestically for domestical sales, but I'd guess against masks being one of those items for it's majority of Americans sales.

 

[JRC3]

So no one else question Menards and their price-gouging?

 

[tym]

Nobody gets "fitted" for a disposable product.

Whaaaaaaa....?

 

[Ton ton]

No one talks about Moldex?

 

[CJ7VFR]

Bag ‘em and sell them on eBay. $29 shipped for five in a zip loc. 6” square boxes are $0.55/ea at wal mart. Postage is an average of $3 for First class (5oz for five masks, 7oz for ten).
I know someone that I made $400+ in a day from selling new old stock (expired) 3M N95 masks...

There is a guy near me that is selling the regular dust masks thru Facebook. He bought hundreds of the 50 count boxes that normally sell for 10 bucks a box.

He is selling 5 masks for $20.00 plus shipping.

He has said his goal is to be able to buy a brand new Dodge Ram pickup truck with cash by the summertime.

Jim

 

[CJ7VFR]

Am I having a moment or did some CV19 threads in the Free Parking get blackholed ?
The CV19 threads over here at GJ are the only ones I am just reading to see different POV.

Wishful thinking I suppose, but I'm going to expect at least one of us in the immediate household will need to self quarantine eventually. The single person who does, ultimately also will affect the -flow- of how things work in the house, etc. I'm errring on the side of precaution. Fridge/freezers are are stocked as can be. etc, etc.

No, you are not wrong. A lot of the threads have been removed because some people can not seem to have a civil conversation about this particular topic.

The name calling and other nasty comments from what seems to always be the same people, is what usually gets the threads canned as they break down into online bickering.

Jim

 

[unslow1]

Bag ‘em and sell them on eBay. $29 shipped for five in a zip loc. 6” square boxes are $0.55/ea at wal mart. Postage is an average of $3 for First class (5oz for five masks, 7oz for ten).
I know someone that I made $400+ in a day from selling new old stock (expired) 3M N95 masks...

I just emailed my brother who lives in Seattle to see if he needs them. Once he replies then Ebay sounds like a great idea.

 

[AA/FC]

I remember for sure that most safety glasses were made in China, but I'm not 100% sure that when I looked in the distant past that the same applied to masks from 3m. Masks in general, yes, from 3M, I'm not sure. I'd say that 3M makes much of many of it's products domestically for domestical sales, but I'd guess against masks being one of those items for it's majority of Americans sales.

We have no way of knowing just how many masks 3M makes in this country.... but I do know they make a LOT. I'm not going to go into details but I have a family member who is in upper corporate management at 3M and at one point specialized in PPE... This family member has told me they make a LOT of PPE in the US. And considering all of their current mask production is only being sold to the US government and the medical industry, I suspect they can build inventory fairly quickly.

 

[AA/FC]

Whaaaaaaa....?

You deleted the rest of my original comment when you quoted me. This was my entire comment on that topic.

Nobody gets "fitted" for a disposable product. These are basically one-size-fits-all. Nobody gets custom-fitted masks specifically tailor made made to fit their face. Sure, they may go through training seminars on a regular basis, but that is NOT the same as "being fitted".

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

It's good to hear 3M is working flat out and prioritizing government agencies.

I don't want to frighten you but this is what happened in a northern Italian hospital . https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/1237142891077697538 Toronto's experience with SARS was similar. Certainly the staffing problems.

 

[visionguru]

There is a guy near me that is selling the regular dust masks thru Facebook. He bought hundreds of the 50 count boxes that normally sell for 10 bucks a box.

He is selling 5 masks for $20.00 plus shipping.

He has said his goal is to be able to buy a brand new Dodge Ram pickup truck with cash by the summertime.

Jim

Jim, I don't think it would work out that easily for the guy. Facebook, ebay, .....banned mask/hand sanitizer sales many days ago. There won't be many people buying regular dust masks for $20 for 5, at least not that desperate yet.

Also, I visited a Menards in Chicago suburbs during the weekend, regular dust masks are still plenty, a no name brand, $2.50 for 10. The N95 is totally out, well except 3M 2 packs with price tag of $19.99.

You skipped an important details. I know details are annoying but important. you mixed estimated and actual cases. There are 700 confirmed cases. There are between around 700,000 are an estimated cases of COVID-19. Of those 20 have died.

Not sure what you were trying to say. Looks like the government's downplaying indeed worked. China, Italy (now) locked the whole country down. I doubt they would have done that if this just a flu, a normal disease.

Also, I have problems with the media keep "educating" us, "masks don't help", "gloves don't help"..., If doctors need masks/gloves to interact with patients, it doesn't need a genius to figure that one out. I just wish the situation in the US won't get out of control resulting in substantial loss of life, loss of jobs, .... It affects everyone!

 

[mobiledynamics]

sadly this thread still remains. It is what it is. Too bad we can't maintain adult conversations on this board. Flame Suit on. I know the GJ motto/mantra that you guys love is Bang His Wife. Which to me was so childish. Maybe those threads should be deleted and purged..


I've only been reading CV19 threads over here at GJ. Just to see other POV. I'm glad I was able to see those POV before it went blackholed.....too bad I seem to be the minority on this forum on my POV on prepareness..

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

There can be intelligent discourse on this subject matter, but not from politicians, they are blowing smoke. They have to; 1) to try to keep the economy ticking, and 2) keep the voters calm.

If you want to know the numbers infected, just work backward from the death toll rate of .6%.

 

[BFBOB]

Just an observation:
I went grocery shopping today 5:30 PM. No more crowded than usual, no unusually loaded shopping carts, just the same-o.
Only one confirmed case here subject to change, but so far all is calm.

 

[Marctrees]

BFBOB - Rural, Urban ?

Kinda helps paint the picture.

Marc

 

[kythri]

Also, I have problems with the media keep "educating" us, "masks don't help", "gloves don't help"..., If doctors need masks/gloves to interact with patients, it doesn't need a genius to figure that one out.

You do realize that medical professionals, working in extremely close proximity to patients, are far more likely to catch stray droplets in their mouth/face/mucous membranes than paranoiacs wearing masks in the streets, don't you?

That's why doctors/nurses/etc. need them/use them.

And, that's why the average person does not need them.

 

[skernv99]

Just an observation:
I went grocery shopping today 5:30 PM. No more crowded than usual, no unusually loaded shopping carts, just the same-o.
Only one confirmed case here subject to change, but so far all is calm.

Just an observation from someone else: went to a bulk discount store 20 minutes after they opened this morning. The line was from the registers all the way back to the end of the store. Carts loaded up with toilet paper, paper towels, napkins, water, dry goods, etc. I turned around and left. I drove around my local area to 4 other big box bulk discount stores. Same thing. It was mobbed. I went to the local supermarket and the meat section was almost wiped out, no toilet paper, milk was gone, etc. I was able to score two cases of 35 count bottles of water.

This is in a major metro area and in the suburbs. I plan to drive an hour out to the rural parts of my state and attempt to procure a few items. I'm ok now but just want to have a few more items on hand in case this panic does not subside in a couple of weeks.

 

[KBigg]

I think I would just start wearing a SCBA from the fire dpt around before I spent $19.99 on 2 masks.