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Masonry Insulating Blankets?

Jawgarage

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Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
136
Location
Near Cape May, NJ, USA
OK.....I feel safe here and don't want to OK the wrong thing with my mason so let me ask what might be obvious......what exactly are Masonry Insulating Blankets used on top of poured slabs in cold weather?

Are they electric?
If they are electric I imagine they can be run off a long extension cord?
When do they go on the poured slab?
How long do they stay on?
What about timing then for the machine trowel finish?

Lets say this is all during a 5-6" slab pour with daytime temps between 35-45 degrees and night time between 25-35 degrees.

Thanks for the education before the Mason comes......
 
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readhead

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Dec 8, 2012
Messages
6,178
Location
Durango, Co.
Not electric. It's a multi ply blanket that has what looks like bubble wrap inside. They retain the heat that comes while the concrete is curing. They go on after trowling and stay on for a few days. They are very slippery to walk on so be careful. The mason should have blankets or he can rent them from a concrete supply.
 

Varty Yo

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Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Messages
97
Location
Sask Canada
Yup insulated tarps is what i call them. Im a bricklayer lol

I wouldnt be too worried at that night temp
 

padroo

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Nov 25, 2011
Messages
564
Location
Chesterton, In.
Do you know if they plan on using antifreeze in the concrets? I would rather not use it but sometimes you have to.
 

TommyK

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Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
546
Location
CT
You absolutely should use blankets if you expect the temps to drop below freezing.

They do make electric ones as well (not that you need them).
 
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joes169

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Sep 19, 2011
Messages
663
Location
WI
Just to clarify, there is no such thing as "antifreeze" for ready-mix concrete, just simply concrete accelerants that will help the fresh concrete generate more heat, which lowers the freezing point slightly (generally no more than 5 degrees).

THere's 2 kinds of accelerant:

- The old stand-by, calcium chloride, which works great and is cheap, but can cause substantial deterioration of any re-enforcement steel, as well as discoloration, along with a myriad of other issues.

- The newer option, non-chloride accelerator, which generally cost 2-3 times more than CC, but will not increase corrosion or color problems, but also will not increase set times as efficiently.
 

matt_i

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Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
10,727
Location
SE Michigan
Just to clarify, there is no such thing as "antifreeze" for ready-mix concrete, just simply concrete accelerants that will help the fresh concrete generate more heat, which lowers the freezing point slightly (generally no more than 5 degrees).

THere's 2 kinds of accelerant:

- The old stand-by, calcium chloride, which works great and is cheap, but can cause substantial deterioration of any re-enforcement steel, as well as discoloration, along with a myriad of other issues.

- The newer option, non-chloride accelerator, which generally cost 2-3 times more than CC, but will not increase corrosion or color problems, but also will not increase set times as efficiently.

What I'm trying to find more information about, is: just how badly does the CaCl2 rust out the rebar? Is it just a crumbly rust pocket in 6 months or is it an accumulated-damage phenomenon over 50 years? Some of the reading I did suggests it is affected by moisture bathing the concrete (as in the case of a roadway or bridge)...in a garage slab with independent walls, it would seem to be mostly from underneath, hence a thick crushed rock layer and well-sealed vapor barrier to be directional pluses.

I don't understand if CaCl2 is instant doom for mesh or rebar, why is it still used all over? On one hand, the tradespeople placing and finishing the concrete, are going to call in the chloride every time because they don't want to be standing around all day for it to setup....

Also, per yard, what's the additional cost of the NCA (non-chloride accelerator)? Is it ~$10 per yard...or more...I don't have any handle on what the CaCl2 costs initially?
 

joes169

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Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
663
Location
WI
What I'm trying to find more information about, is: just how badly does the CaCl2 rust out the rebar? Is it just a crumbly rust pocket in 6 months or is it an accumulated-damage phenomenon over 50 years? Some of the reading I did suggests it is affected by moisture bathing the concrete (as in the case of a roadway or bridge)...in a garage slab with independent walls, it would seem to be mostly from underneath, hence a thick crushed rock layer and well-sealed vapor barrier to be directional pluses.

I don't understand if CaCl2 is instant doom for mesh or rebar, why is it still used all over? On one hand, the tradespeople placing and finishing the concrete, are going to call in the chloride every time because they don't want to be standing around all day for it to setup....

Also, per yard, what's the additional cost of the NCA (non-chloride accelerator)? Is it ~$10 per yard...or more...I don't have any handle on what the CaCl2 costs initially?


I can't offer too much direct experience to actual failures from CaCl on my own jobs relative to steel re-inforcement, as I've never tracked it. My assumption is that it takes years with little coverage to be an issue. CaCl produces much darker, and often "blotchy" finishes also, which is one of the reasons we limit it's use. Generally, we use a small dosage of CaCl, complimented by a varying degree of NCA. Just yesterday, we needed to pour a tiny sidewalk, and first warmed the ground well, requested the warmest concrete we could get with the dispatcher (74 degree concrete on-site), and used 1% CaCl with 1.5% NCA. Poured at 1 pm and covered with straw and blankets at 6 pm. 22 degrees and sunny at placement, 14 degrees and dark at covering. If I checked this morning, the concrete would probably be at 45-50 degrees under the straw.

As for costs, here's what the accelerators cost me approx:

CaCl : ~$3.00 per yard for 1% dosage, maximum allowable of 2%.

NCA : ~$6.50 per yard for 1% dosage, I've yet to hear a maximum allowable dosage, but have heard of contractors using up to 7% dosage for extreme cases.

TO complicate things, you generally need to use more NCA to equal setting times o CaCl, the general thought is 1.5% NCA is roughly equivalent to 1% CaCl in enitial set times. So, realistically, NCA would cost nearly $10.00 per yard to achieve similar results of $3.00 of CaCl.

Also, many finishers don't care for large amounts of NCA, as it has increasing effects on finishing of concrete (it get's much stickier the more you use), which I'm sure leads to many contractors swaying away from it as well......
 
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