To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Masons, I need brick help

hh76

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
3,441
Location
NE Wisconsin
I've got a garage that was built in the teens, and is showing it's age. Back in the 80's one owner did some work on it, skim coated bad areas, and sealed the brick. It's pretty much just sat there since, un attended to. Now that it's mine, I'd like to get it into better shape both structurally, and esthetically.

This is one problem. I assume from years of water intrusion, some of the lower bricks are coming apart, and most of the earlier skim coating is chipped off.

In this pic, you can see just how bad some of the bricks are.



Here you can get a bigger picture



Most of the debris piled up is the winter's worth of the old coating come off, and a little brick.

What can be done? I was thinking some sort of stucco coating on the bottom 3' of the wall, but would that adhere correctly? Is there some other coating that could be applied.

Thanks for the help.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
I'm no brick guy, but the brick you have is the old "soft" brick. With it being softer it is also more likely to soak up moisture, then in the winter, that moisture will freeze and break the bricks.

Are you wanting to keep the brick look? Are you wanting to repair just certain areas?

Can you post a pic from further away? If possible, I think I would somehow add some furring strips and cover it all?
 
OP
H

hh76

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
3,441
Location
NE Wisconsin
I'm no brick guy, but the brick you have is the old "soft" brick. With it being softer it is also more likely to soak up moisture, then in the winter, that moisture will freeze and break the bricks.

Are you wanting to keep the brick look? Are you wanting to repair just certain areas?

Can you post a pic from further away? If possible, I think I would somehow add some furring strips and cover it all?

You are correct about it being softer, almost sandy.

It's not bad once you get above the first 2ft, so I'd prefer to leave the upper section alone, and just seal it. I was thinking I'd just cover the bottom 3ft to hide and protect it. I do like the look of the brick, so I'd prefer not to cover all of it.
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
Just my opinion, but I think you may have a hard time just putting stucco back on the lower section and sealing the rest because even if you do seal it, moisture can still get in the bricks. On most of the soft brick buildings I have ever had anything to do with or have witnessed from other peoples homes, the soft brick was normally painted with usually a white paint to seal out the weather. Over the years the paint would peel off and people would see the natural brick look underneath and wanted that, so they would strip the white paint off. I personally love the looks of a brick building, but I hate the soft brick.

Just for shots and giggles, if you have a loose brick, take that brick and put it in a bucket with about and inch of water in the bottom and watch how much it soaks up. You'll be surprised. So now imagine trying to seal one and multiply that by a few thousand. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but just warning you that whatever you do is going to cost a little chunk of money.

Whatever you put on the bottom, you will have to keep in mind what is going to be above and coming down as far as moisture. Ideally, it would be great if you could put up something like Hardibacker siding and have flashing at the good brick line and overlap the Hardibacker. It would be sort of reversed with brick over siding instead of siding over brick.

But if you do find someone that can stucco over the lower bad section, I would take many before pic, after pics, and have a notarized guarantee on the workmanship. That is, even if you could get someone to guarantee the work.

A friend of mine used to live in an old one room schoolhouse that was remodeled in to a fantastic home. Walls were built inside of 2x4's and drywall, fully insulated. Over the time that he lived there, he had to have the mortar joints tuck pointed once in many areas. But you could see where there were numerous repairs over the years. From what I remember from working on his place, the brick on it was not a hard brick, but yet, not a real soft brick either. Sort of a medium hard I guess. Most of the one room schoolhouses around here are pretty much the natural brick with only a few being painted.

And with your brick being natural looking, I would imagine that you would not want to paint it. I know I wouldn't. You will have to hook up with an expert though that know the real in's and out's about bricks to see what can actually be done that will last and still let the bricks look good.

I know you have places around Wisconsin, but we have a brick place close that the owners really know their stuff. They have been in the concrete business and in the brick business as far back as I can remember. It would be a long distance call for you, but you could call them, or drop them an e-mail and get their opinion on what you can do. A phone calls a few cents or free if you have a cell, and an e-mail isn't going to cost you anything but your time to type things out and snap a few pics. The place I'm talking about is called "Mr. Concrete". Here is their info:

http://mrconcreteinc.com/contactus.htm

If you e-mail them, talk with Dave Duff. He is the owner and really knows his business.

Dave Duff, President [email protected]
Joel Fulkerson, Sales Manager [email protected]
John Richter, Sales Representative, [email protected]
Jacquie Lowry, Office Manager, [email protected]
Sales, [email protected]
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
BTW.....if per chance you speak with them, or if you find something out from someone in your neck of the woods, report back here and let others know what you found out and what products to use. It will not only be a help for ones on here, but it will also help if some members know someone in the same predicament.

I did do a search and ran across this that shows what you are wanting to do. On the right hand side it talks about doing restoration at the Department of Interiors http://miltonfreewaterconstruction.com/Page8.html and how they repaired it. One of the links also talk about the type of mortar that is used to repair the mortar joints.

GOOD LUCK!!!
 
Last edited:
OP
H

hh76

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
3,441
Location
NE Wisconsin
Just my opinion, but I think you may have a hard time just putting stucco back on the lower section and sealing the rest because even if you do seal it, moisture can still get in the bricks. On most of the soft brick buildings I have ever had anything to do with or have witnessed from other peoples homes, the soft brick was normally painted with usually a white paint to seal out the weather. Over the years the paint would peel off and people would see the natural brick look underneath and wanted that, so they would strip the white paint off. I personally love the looks of a brick building, but I hate the soft brick.

The building was painted at one time, but a previous owner stripped it. I kind of assumed the sealer would do about the same job as paint?
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
The building was painted at one time, but a previous owner stripped it. I kind of assumed the sealer would do about the same job as paint?

I really don't think a sealer per se does the same as paint. Not knowing the technical term for it, but a sealer soaks in and makes the brick like "water repellent", but a good paint over brick, makes it "waterproof". I really don't know how to explain it as I see it in my head, but a good quality paint is like putting a cover OVER the bricks so water cannot get into the brick, the other will let water penetrate somewhat and will repel most of the water, but does not provide a 100% barrier penetrating, if that makes sense. Sort of like an cloth umbrella vs. a solid piece of plastic.
 

Pig In A Poke

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
158
Location
Charlotte, NC
As long as the structure is not moving, you can pressure wash and remove any loose material, wet the wall with water/bonding adhesive mixture, then parge/stucco the wall with 1/2"+ of cement (you can also fasten expanded aluminum sheeting then stucco, would help insure bonding). Prime and paint, maintain paint annually. Best thing to do is ask friends and anyone else for a reference, and hire a mason. No offense I am sure with enough research, advice, and lots of patience after 40-150 hours you will be done and be happy with the work. I have been hired on several occasions to remove work that the homeowner or non-qualified individual had installed, and then preform the repair work.

If you do it yourself, getting all the loose debris out is essential! Then getting the cement into every last crevice and crack is the next key! Do those two and you should have a decent repair, the rest is just making it look good and making it last.

If the structure is moving, up and down seasonally the only fix is to secure the structure and remove the wall and footings and replace.

Even if only for advice it is a good idea to call around and get estimates and ideas, and of course if anyone tells you they can do it in a day or so for a few hundred dollars, send them home.

Good luck
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

f150skidoo

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
1,206
Location
Ontario, Canada
I would see if i can find new brick the matches the original brick and just replace the spalling brick. If you re parge the brick or even stucco the damaged brick it will only be a band aid fix. You could also cut out the bottom few courses of brick and put some cinder block in there down the entire side of the garage. I did a job on a old farm house were the garages brick walls were load bearing and the brick was very deteriorated. so we jacked up the roof and tore the wall down and put new brick on the out side and 4" cinder block on the inside.
 

stonemason80

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
18
The only right way to fix this is to chip out the old brick an replace it. You should be able to tooth out the old brick as long as the brick and mortar above is still sound. Worst case scenario you just cut a groove above the bad area and slide in some angle iron to temporarily support then build up to it. The only tough part is handling a big enough saw to cut in. Good Luck!
 

hybred355

Active member
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
44
Location
Ont Canada
I have repaired that type of brick before.Takes a lot of time . You need to find a brick similar in colour,all of the mortar joints that are cracked or open need to be cut back .Cut out the bad brick,, big grinder with a masonry blade and the loose mortar joints.The mortar is very likley LIME it will be very soft and easy to remove. To replace you will need the brick and a mortar close to the same colour.Take a piece of the mortar to a brick block supply place ,they should be able to come close to a colour .I would guess type S and some federal white mixture would be close.Talk to some brick restoration companies they do this stuff all the time You can do this and will be happy with the result. Hope this helps. Larry
 

djjsr

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
4,796
Location
In the cornfields
I'm not a mason. I own 2 old large brick buildings and can tell you that your repair is not a do-it-yourself job. That is beyond a little mortar repair. You need a pro to replace the damage then you can seal it.

The pro should know this but I'll mention it anyway. Old buildings have soft mortar, before the days of Portland cement. If you replace or repair it with any of the newer better mortars like type S, you may start breaking more bricks because you have soft spots and hard spots. The cheap general use mortar will be more compatible.
 
OP
H

hh76

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
3,441
Location
NE Wisconsin
As long as the structure is not moving, you can pressure wash and remove any loose material, wet the wall with water/bonding adhesive mixture, then parge/stucco the wall with 1/2"+ of cement (you can also fasten expanded aluminum sheeting then stucco, would help insure bonding). Prime and paint, maintain paint annually. Best thing to do is ask friends and anyone else for a reference, and hire a mason. No offense I am sure with enough research, advice, and lots of patience after 40-150 hours you will be done and be happy with the work. I have been hired on several occasions to remove work that the homeowner or non-qualified individual had installed, and then preform the repair work.

If you do it yourself, getting all the loose debris out is essential! Then getting the cement into every last crevice and crack is the next key! Do those two and you should have a decent repair, the rest is just making it look good and making it last.

If the structure is moving, up and down seasonally the only fix is to secure the structure and remove the wall and footings and replace.

Even if only for advice it is a good idea to call around and get estimates and ideas, and of course if anyone tells you they can do it in a day or so for a few hundred dollars, send them home.

Good luck

The structure is not moving. This is what I would like to do, but am very concerned that the new cement will eventually flake off. Will the bonding adhesive, or lath make it last as long as it's flashed correctly, and it's sealed/painted?

tear it down,

I hope you're joking

The only right way to fix this is to chip out the old brick an replace it. You should be able to tooth out the old brick as long as the brick and mortar above is still sound. Worst case scenario you just cut a groove above the bad area and slide in some angle iron to temporarily support then build up to it. The only tough part is handling a big enough saw to cut in. Good Luck!

I have repaired that type of brick before.Takes a lot of time . You need to find a brick similar in colour,all of the mortar joints that are cracked or open need to be cut back .Cut out the bad brick,, big grinder with a masonry blade and the loose mortar joints.The mortar is very likley LIME it will be very soft and easy to remove. To replace you will need the brick and a mortar close to the same colour.Take a piece of the mortar to a brick block supply place ,they should be able to come close to a colour .I would guess type S and some federal white mixture would be close.Talk to some brick restoration companies they do this stuff all the time You can do this and will be happy with the result. Hope this helps. Larry

Are these two suggestions of replacing bricks made solely for an effort to maintain the current esthetics? Would it be necessary to replace the bad bricks if I were to simply stucco over the bottom courses?

........wall could be three/four courses thick; all brick?

Yes, all brick. Two courses thick, and the interior is in good shape.
 

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,109
Location
SE MI
As long as the structure is not moving, you can pressure wash and remove any loose material, wet the wall with water/bonding adhesive mixture, then parge/stucco the wall with 1/2"+ of "cement". Prime and paint, maintain paint annually. Best thing to do is ask friends and anyone else for a reference, and hire a mason.

Best answer ! The real issue is finding a good, "old time" mason who has done this kind of work before. He won't be cheap !

Keep snow and moisture off of the "stucco". Maintain the paint. It will last a long time !
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom