Massive plumbing issue

[flat350]

Really appreciate the reply! Yes, this is something relatively new in DuPage (maybe State as well). No, the plumbing inspector is employed by the County directly. Are you saying it satisfies code to branch off ductwork to heat the joist cavities? If so, we could easily do that!

Only the bays with a p trap or water lines would need a warm air supply. I'm 7 years out of the inspections loop being retired, but we did it all the time with no issues with various inspectors

 

[CraigStu]

Maybe I missed it but I am not sure how far along you are on the rebuild. Your comment about the bath being at the far end of the garage from the home popped a thought. Why not move the bath so it is at the home end? Second thought is run a supply pipe along either the baseboard or the wall/ceiling inside the bedroom. Yeah you have to look at it but, back in the days of hot water radiators we looked at a lot of pipes inside a room, and it was no big deal. W/ needed ceiling height for your lift vs looking at a pipe in a bedroom, I'd look at that pipe and after 2 days never think about it again.

 

[jollygreengiant]

If you were to follow all the regs and make the garage heated, would that absolve the need for R-49 below the pipes??

 

[Shriner]

Update: Today was plumbing re-inspection. He walked up to the garage, said looks good and gave me an approved permit. No, I am not joking. Thanks for the all the input, really appreciate it.

 

[ybnormal]

Update: Today was plumbing re-inspection. He walked up to the garage, said looks good and gave me an approved permit. No, I am not joking. Thanks for the all the input, really appreciate it.

without digging thru it all, what was the approved fix? or did you actually fix it?

 

[dcg9381]

Update: Today was plumbing re-inspection. He walked up to the garage, said looks good and gave me an approved permit. No, I am not joking. Thanks for the all the input, really appreciate it.

... I just don't know what to say... I mean, it's only tens of thousands of dollars, right?

 

[Sumboodie]

Why would they not "allow" a heated garage?

I'm so glad I don't live in a place that thinks they can control things like that.

 

[Shriner]

without digging thru it all, what was the approved fix? or did you actually fix it?

There was no fix; it was completely unchanged and he passed it.

 

[PCustoms]

There was no fix; it was completely unchanged and he passed it.

Same inspector?

 

[housewolf]

There was no fix; it was completely unchanged and he passed it.

That doesn’t surprise me at all. Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, in 45 years of installing plumbing work, I’ve run across only a few (maybe 3?) inspectors that were unreasonable and even with those guys we found a reasonable solution

 

[Old tool guy]

Update: Today was plumbing re-inspection. He walked up to the garage, said looks good and gave me an approved permit. No, I am not joking. Thanks for the all the input, really appreciate it.

Somebody slipped him a note: “you are being discussed on GJ”.

 

[Just_Steve]

There was no fix; it was completely unchanged and he passed it.

I'm happy for you but am just gobsmacked.

 

[Shriner]

Trust me, it is mixed emotions. Happy we can move forward, but shocking that we wasted two weeks for the re-inspection when it obviously was not needed. Same inspector and he did not even look up at the ceiling.

LOL at the discussed on GJ comment!

 

[flat350]

He must have gone back and really read the code, there is absolutely nothing in the state code prohibiting what you did.
Curious if there was a reinspection fee involved ?

 

[CraigStu]

WOW, fantastic news.

 

[Shriner]

He must have gone back and really read the code, there is absolutely nothing in the state code prohibiting what you did.
Curious if there was a reinspection fee involved ?

Yes, $50.00. The main issue is that booking is two weeks out so we lost a lot of time

 

[MikeOxard]

Without going into too much detail, we had a house fire so we were essentially "forced" to pull permits through the County for the rebuild in order to get an occupancy permit. Mind you, this was not a major rebuild as the fire was in the attached garage and spread to the bedroom above. The garage and bedrooms/bathroom above it were all part of an addition completed by the previous owner roughly twenty years ago, permitted by the County. We removed all of the drywall in the garage and of course the bathroom water supplies and drains are located in the garage ceiling joists (since there would be literally no other place to put them). We are re-doing the bathroom as part of the rebuild and the County will not pass the rough plumbing. Per the County, no water supplies can be in an exterior wall, garage wall, attic or unconditioned area. This is obviously recently new code OR they somehow missed it when the addition was built.

That said, we have lived there for 11 years and have NEVER had a frozen pipe. The coldest I have ever seen the garage is 40 degrees even if minus 20 outside, simply because the garage is insulated with a common wall to the house and bedrooms above. The walls are R-15 and the ceiling joists will have R-49. Some of the water supplies are 4 inches from the bottom of the ceiling joists while others are higher up.

Any ideas? Keep in mind the County is saying heated garages are not allowed so that would not alleviate our issue of passing rough plumbing.

Would there be any way to drop new water supply lines from overhead space like though an attic /room above the bathroom?

 

[racecougar]

Would there be any way to drop new water supply lines from overhead space like though an attic /room above the bathroom?

Look up a few posts (post #84, in particular).

 

[LOW1]

If you can't get It passed.....
It is the insurance companies job to make you "whole" again.
That may mean a new plumber, general contractor or a complete teardown/ rebuild. Depends on your coverage.
Check it out.
Good luck!

It may depend on the type of coverage that you have. There is a variation of replacement coverage which has a “cost to rebuild to code” feature. If your policy has that the insurance company stands the cost of complying with code.

Also some building codes have an appeal process for situations where it would be impractical for you to comply. That may be an option.

Hopefully you will find a local official with some practical experience Who can help

 

[LOW1]

Does anyone know the reasoning behind disallowing heat in a garage? If it's a concern about combustion, then why not allow heatpump, mini-split or electric baseboards?

Energy conservation?

 

[racecougar]

Hopefully you will find a local official with some practical experience Who can help

Look up a few posts (post #84, in particular).

 

[Ak Jim]

Any ideas? Keep in mind the County is saying heated garages are not allowed so that would not alleviate our issue of passing rough plumbing.

Sorry if I missed this in a previous post but why can’t you have a heated garage? Seriously I’d move to someplace else.

 

[wssix99]

Sorry if I missed this in a previous post but why can’t you have a heated garage? Seriously I’d move to someplace else.

Our area does not count on heating systems because they can fail. The method of keeping pipes out of insulated cavities buys additional time/insurance that the pipes will not burst when the house residents have flown to Florida when it gets really cold.

Garages are kept to a lower temperature and are conditioned with a separate HVAC system. Occupants also have the option of turning the garage completely off, so that "conditioned" space does not count for this exercise in our area. (So much so, that even my radiant floor had to be separated between the inside of my house and the garage. The garage slab runs glycol through the tubes to freeze protect them.)

 

[Ak Jim]

Our area does not count on heating systems because they can fail. The method of keeping pipes out of insulated cavities buys additional time/insurance that the pipes will not burst when the house residents have flown to Florida when it gets really cold.

Garages are kept to a lower temperature and are conditioned with a separate HVAC system. Occupants also have the option of turning the garage completely off, so that "conditioned" space does not count for this exercise in our area. (So much so, that even my radiant floor had to be separated between the inside of my house and the garage. The garage slab runs glycol through the tubes to freeze protect them.)

Thx for the explanation.

 

[JohnC1957]

That’s awesome!

 

[andyvh1959]

Interesting. My house in Green Bay WI is a 1973 vintage tri-level, with two bedrooms and the main bath directly over the unheated built in 2-car garage. Other than the OH garage door, the other three walls of the garage are insulated, at least to 1973 common practice. I remodeled the main bathroom back in 2018, which included removing a cast iron tub sunk into the bathroom floor (over the garage) and replacing it with a floor level corner shower/tub. Winter of 2018 it got real cold, like -20 F air temp, and the drain line for the tub did freeze. My solution was to create an air passge from the basement which is always quite warm (furnace, hot water heater) to the area below the shower/tub. No issues since.

When I built in the framing in the bathroom floor to replace the tub I took out, I found the joists over the garage were 2x12. So I heavily insulated that area where the tub had been. Makes me wonder what codes apply in WI for the tens of thousands Bi-level and Tri-level homes with living spaces over unheated garages.

 

[pcmeiners]

"If you can't get It passed.....
It is the insurance companies job to make you "whole" again."

Unless your insurance is "replacement insurance" AND you paid extra for an optional code compliance upgrade, bringing your home up to new codes is your problem.

 

[racecougar]

We had a similar situation when we were renovating our place, and dealing with the County codes can be a real challenge. One thing that worked for us was reaching out to a commercial water partner in North Charleston. They really knew their stuff when it came to tricky code issues and were able to suggest some creative solutions. You might want to look into North Charleston commercial plumber experts, as they have a lot of experience navigating these kinds of regulations. From my perspective, it sounds like your insulation is pretty solid, and it’s frustrating that the County won’t consider the practical aspects of your situation. Have you tried getting a second opinion or even appealing the decision?

Again, look up a few posts (post #84, in particular).

 

[N_Jay]

Did you try bribing the inspector? (J/K)
It's Illinois (Chicago's home state)

 

[racecougar]

 

[reader2580]

Our area does not count on heating systems because they can fail. The method of keeping pipes out of insulated cavities buys additional time/insurance that the pipes will not burst when the house residents have flown to Florida when it gets really cold.

Heating systems can fail in houses too, but they don't prohibit plumbing in houses.

I had a house with two bedrooms and a bathroom over top of an unheated attached garage. No issues with having pipes in the ceiling of the garage. This was 2007 and the floor trusses making up the garage ceiling had netting stapled to the bottom of the floor trusses and cellulose insulation blown in. No issues passing inspection.