Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bit.

[kwb]

I did a small project for a guy about 6mo ago. He thought that I was a pretty handy sort of guy so....This week he called to see if I could come drill a rock out of a pipe, sends me a video from inside the 2" pipe. He then grumbled about his efforts to this point and price to even consider getting a plumber out. I should have just said no and moved on but he is a nice old guy and this is at his mothers house.

This looks like it should be a quick and easy but I am starting to doubt his measurement on depth to the rock. I have an 18" bit, he says blockage is about 12" in so all should be good... but I am a skeptic.

What I am trying to do is prevent running all over once I start in on this.

I have some other bits that I could cut and extend to be prepared just in case. The other option is to cut the end and just make a long breaker tip for the rotohammer.

MIG Welding is my option here, no TIG or special filler rods. What I am thinking for the process here is cut & heat the areas to weld to cherry red. Weld in my extension. The thought is first a piece of 1/2" rod and then sleeved with a piece of 1/2" pipe.

What I don't want is to get there come up short a couple inches and then have to go find a longer bit on Saturday at some sort of dumb price. I can do the welded up bit in advance and save an hour+ of driving around to come back to the shop weld it and then go back and give it a whirl. The materials to extend are all laying around in the scrap bin.

 

[Loose Nut Buster]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

So, do we get to hear the rest of the story as Paul Harvey use to say!

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[kwb]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

The rest of the story will start Saturday morning.

I really hope it is a short story. I don't have time for it to be a long one.... which means that is exactly how it will go.

Murphy and his laws are a real PITA sometimes.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

Well, good luck with that. As you stated, Mr. Murphy will surely have a hand in making your day special. Unless the rock is up against an elbow, I'd be afraid the roto hammer would just drive it deeper into the abyss. If it made it that far down the pipe, it must be a close fit. If the roto hammer doesn't work, I'd try epoxying a rod to it, then pulling it out before cutting the pipe and replacing it...unless that's an easy scenario.

 

[PCustoms]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

What kind of pipe?

Is this underground? In a wall?

Seems like cutting the pipe and adding a coupler or new section would be a heck of a lot easier....

 

[nadogail]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

I can hear Murphy coming round the bend, Murphy will be driving 6 White Horses when he comes; it may take a while but Murphy will make his presence known.

 

[Will Allen]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

I can hear Murphy coming round the bend, Murphy will be driving 6 White Horses when he comes; it may take a while but Murphy will make his presence known.

In my experience "easy fix" and "Saturday" never go together. Murphy never takes the weekend off.

 

[LXCam]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

You’re gonna regret this my friend. You’ll either jamb it into an elbow so tight it’ll never come loose and/or have the bit wander off to the side and window the pipe. Personally I’d get some 1/4” pencil rod and bend a tight hook on the end plus sharpen the tip and try to get around the rock, rotate/hook and pull it out. I’d also highly suggest buying or renting a bore camera so you get see exactly what you’re in for beforehand.

Best of luck.

 

[kwb]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

I have pictures - it is a tight fit. It also looks like this pipe goes right through the footer and under a basement slab.

I am concerned about pushing it further in but at this point it is already into the area encased in concrete so cutting the pipe out is a big undertaking and worth a bit of risk taking here.

I have a bar with a hook on it and will also try that in the process.

All I really want to do Saturday is work on the boat.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

I just had an epiphany...is there any way to pressurize the pipe with water on the far side of the rock?

 

[Will Allen]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

I have pictures - it is a tight fit. It also looks like this pipe goes right through the footer and under a basement slab.

I am concerned about pushing it further in but at this point it is already into the area encased in concrete so cutting the pipe out is a big undertaking and worth a bit of risk taking here.

I have a bar with a hook on it and will also try that in the process.

All I really want to do Saturday is work on the boat.

How did it get there in the first place? What kind of pipe is it? Will this be on pay per view?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[kwb]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

No pay per view, I appreciate all the fun and sympathy from the peanut gallery.

Any advise on on prepping a bit for welding in the extension? - after all that is why I posted

 

[Will Allen]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

No pay per view, I appreciate all the fun and sympathy from the peanut gallery.

Any advise on on prepping a bit for welding in the extension? - after all that is why I posted

I have a selection of three foot long SDS Max bits that I needed over the years for a one shot deal. I never tried to weld one.

I guess I have never checked but do they make bit extensions for those?

As far as welding goes I guess you could give it a try. No big loss if it doesn't work.

 

[kwb]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

Extension is substantially more than a 3' bit.

I think I am going to give this one try (trip) and if it doesn't work, then he can get appropriate trades out to deal with this.

 

[bczygan]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

I would be happy to solve this problem for you.

Give me the guys number and I'll call and tell him you had a medical problem and won't be able to do the job.

Problem solved!

Why do we who have a skill always need to share it?

Bill

 

[ace10]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

This has the potential for being an exponentially expanding "problem."

I'd like to hear your path to success on this....

Best case and worst case.

 

[Sweetcorn]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

I would be happy to solve this problem for you.

Give me the guys number and I'll call and tell him you had a medical problem and won't be able to do the job.

Problem solved!

Why do we who have a skill always need to share it?

Bill

I genuinely enjoyed this.

Best idea in the thread!

 

[YukonXL04]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

No pay per view, I appreciate all the fun and sympathy from the peanut gallery.

Any advise on on prepping a bit for welding in the extension? - after all that is why I posted

We have welded bits before. Trick is getting it straight. As your welding it will tweak and pull. But no sweat, it still works just vibrated more.

We just cut the bit in half, and welded a 4ft section of 1/2 pipe inbetween. We did use a tig though. Similar problem trying to break up something in a pipe.

I wouldn't worry about heating it cherry red. Just run the welder a little hotter, and you'll be fine. Might put a couple passes on it though. Little more meat to bite onto.

 

[strength_and_power]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

We’ve extended regular twist bits by welding many times and had good success. Lay them in the “V” of a chunk of angle iron to help keep them aligned. I’d put your joint as far away from the tip as possible so if it breaks, you don’t have as far to go to fish it out. You can also use a piece of tubing with the ID just larger than the bit diameter as a guide. Hopefully the
F-up fairy will leave you alone Saturday.


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[Leaflessshadetree]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

Drilling would be my last ditch effort to avoid cutting a slab.
I'd try to pull or **** it out first. I'd also try pushing or blowing it out from the other end. Also maybe consider replacing that section of pipe.

 

[The Cobbler]

Edited thread title to correct spelling

 

[Yarz]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

I'd try to pull or **** it out first.

This is my thought as well.. Is it wedged tight in the pipe? Since it's only ~12" in, can a shopvac get it?

 

[Kaizen]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

Drilling would be my last ditch effort to avoid cutting a slab.
I'd try to pull or **** it out first. I'd also try pushing or blowing it out from the other end. Also maybe consider replacing that section of pipe.

This x10.
Can’t imagine how an sds is not going to push it in worse?
Or damage the pipe
I’d def be cutting and patching if push pull won’t work.
Don’t they sell sds extensions?


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[Jlarson]

I've lightly preheated and then MIG'ed or TIG'ed w/312 a few different sds things in the past, the MIG ones hold up ok for a while.

BTW I agree, weekend, thing in a pipe, sounds bad. I've found Murphy often works multiple shifts on weekends.

 

[AP514]

This is going to end badly......

 

[king nero]

This has been mentioned before, so a x2 for either pressurized air or water from the "other" end or a plastic tube duct taped to a shop vac on full power...

 

[Pen & Wrench]

May find a doctor friend and tell him you have a really challenging kidney stone you need microwaved?

 

[Joemctag]

Re: Mastering of Hackery - welding a SDS bid.

Yeah, weld in a 4 to 8 foot piece because that’s how far in that rock might be before you get done hammering it farther down that pipe.

 

[Sweetcorn]

This has been mentioned before, so a x2 for either pressurized air or water from the "other" end or a plastic tube duct taped to a shop vac on full power...

Pressurized air is very dangerous. Makes the obstruction turn into a bullet.

Pressurized water is much safer since it cant be compressed.

In my opinion, the safest thing to do is to use a rubber clean out ball, like what is used on concrete pumps, with water pushing from the opposite side it went in. City water line pressure is likely enough to do it.

Google concrete pump cleanout balls for more info.

Drilling is most likely going to end up a disaster.

 

[59 wagon man]

i have removed some very difficult blockages including power ranger dolls , rocks, bottles tin cans, all kinds of junk.even when hidden inside a wall. first it would help with a pic or drawing but if it is a sewer line after the vacuam i use a locater. you can put it right next to the problem area and locate it. one time i had a customer whose pool pump had somehow pulled the hose end into the plumbing and lodged it at a 45 cuting off most of the pool filtering circulation. pool guy tried all kinds of chemicals he thought would melt the hose but nothing worked. his text thought was to break the concrete patio up and replace the line we found the pipe at the edge of the deck and put our locater as far as we could. it ran about 18" and hit the problem. we dug under the concrete about 2' and cut out the section of pipe and fixed the problem. no breaking or concrete repair needed

 

[harley jim]

I like the shop vac idea for first choice and epoxy on a stick for my second choice. I dont think the drill idea will work either.

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[Will Allen]

Well???????????? How did it go today? Did Murphy show up?

 

[kwb]

Drilled through in couple of spots and pulled pieces back out. In and out in less than 45min.

Looked like a koosh ball that packed up with sand and got hard.

Should have bought a lottery ticket.

 

[Benw455]

I think he is still working on it.

 

[Loose Nut Buster]

My wonder would be what sort of pipe, how long was it in there and now the reason to remove unless its the CI sewer line .I enjoy going through the footing. My experience has been they're usually under the footing with a clean out inside.
Have seen where a tile contractor rinsed his thinset bucket down the drain and ended in this story as a rock.
Definitely a Paul Harvey kind of story.

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[LXCam]

Drilled through in couple of spots and pulled pieces back out. In and out in less than 45min.

Looked like a koosh ball that packed up with sand and got hard.

Should have bought a lottery ticket.

Kickass!

 

[PugetDude]

Glad it all worked out (pun intended)

 

[harley jim]

You rock the rock drillin, good job

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[kwb]

To answer a few of the questions/suggestions from above -

Cast Iron Pipe - was still in really good shape.

The footing was put in about 40yrs ago according to the son who is in his 70's (I bet more like 50-60yrs) by his dad when they added on to the house. He said it has flooded for as long as he remembers. The bottom of the stairwell would fill, overflow into the basement and run into a floor drain.

As far as I can tell there was no place I could have applied pressure from the backside and NFW I would have tried that.

Given that there was a few inches of water in the bottom when I got there that had to be bailed out to get started - there was no chance of an epoxy solution that would have stiuck to the obstruction and not also been stuck to the wall of the pipe.

I am very glad it went quickly gave him a great deal on my time. I saved him a bundle from saw cutting to get to the floor drain and tie in there. Given how well all my projects went this weekend - it will come around and kick my *** at work all week long.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Awesome! Glad Murphy took the day off.