Matco pinned vs pinless universal impact sockets
- Thread starter alpaca
- Start date
Also they are collarless and made in USA
refer to this thread:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93947
refer to this thread:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93947
MattPersman
Well-known member
They all wear out I actually prefer the newer snap on over any of them
And to add I like the Mac better than the matco as well the matco seem to last the least for me on hard use on normal use they are ok
And to add I like the Mac better than the matco as well the matco seem to last the least for me on hard use on normal use they are ok
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I have a matco 15mm shallow pinless socket as a backup for my snap on impact swivels. About as often as the snap on breaks a pin with heavy use the matco pinless locks up at whatever angle it is in and throws itself off of the fastner. The pinless mechanism mushrooms out and it binds up, sometimes after little use. It probably is stronger as I have never actually broken it, but it is not without its problems.
wafrederick
Well-known member
You lose power with the pin design and the pinless has a full 360 degree swing.The pin is the weak part and can do damage to the user's hand when it break.I seen a boat mechanic's hand showing this,pin broke and he has a scar from it to this day.
abvw
Well-known member
The weak point is not the pin that broke, its the ******* who held the socket while the gun is going off at 7000rpm. He deserved it, bet you he never held on to a spinning socket ever again.
Hpozzuoli
Well-known member
W0rLDWaR4
Well-known member
I have the craftsman pinless in 1/2" and prefer my snap-on pinned ones.
I'm good on the harbor freight.
Basically I ordered the matco pinned not realizing they were pinned (was thinking all matco's were pinless). I'm trying to decide if I should return them and buy pinless or just keep them.
TBH I'm leaning towards keeping them, what I've read has me thinking the pinless is a marketing gimmick.
Basically I ordered the matco pinned not realizing they were pinned (was thinking all matco's were pinless). I'm trying to decide if I should return them and buy pinless or just keep them.
TBH I'm leaning towards keeping them, what I've read has me thinking the pinless is a marketing gimmick.
Buckgnarly
Well-known member
I have to disagree, the pinless design cannot be beat. i have SK, SO, NAPA pro all in pinned and none of them offer the smooth flexibility of any of the pinless, and I have Armstrong, Cman, and Matco (I know they are the same, but...). Though only one I have broken is a NAPA pro if that means anything.
I have no idea if SO did some new stuff though, mine are about 3 years old or so.
I have no idea if SO did some new stuff though, mine are about 3 years old or so.
Pinless isn't entirely a gimmick. There is no advantage in articulation angle, longevity or strength, however they do deliver a more even torque load to the socket. The biggest advantage with the pinless is the size. They're some of the shortest and slimmest impact swivels available. Snap-On's laser welded are some of the tallest, particularly in 17mm+. This can reduce the usefulness if you're trying to bypass an obstruction immediately behind a fastener.
The pinless are made by Apex/Armstrong in the USA. While they aren't made by Matco, their variety of sizes and styles (shallow, mid-length, deep) is not made for any other brand so effectively they are Matco exclusives.
The pinless are made by Apex/Armstrong in the USA. While they aren't made by Matco, their variety of sizes and styles (shallow, mid-length, deep) is not made for any other brand so effectively they are Matco exclusives.
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Sparkyjack
Well-known member
I've been looking at grey pneumatic sockets and like the prices, does anybody know if they are pinless?
TBH I'm not sure that pinned/pinless is really important to me, in the past 36 years i've not made use of tool warrenties.
I buy tools so that I can repair and maintain my own cars. IF the Harbor Freight set didn't skip 15 mm I'd buy it in a heartbeat and be done with it, but I dislike the skipping a size.
Jack
TBH I'm not sure that pinned/pinless is really important to me, in the past 36 years i've not made use of tool warrenties.
I buy tools so that I can repair and maintain my own cars. IF the Harbor Freight set didn't skip 15 mm I'd buy it in a heartbeat and be done with it, but I dislike the skipping a size.
Jack
The Apex/Armstrong USA pinless impacts are the only ones of their type as far as I know and can only be found under Matco, Armstrong, and Craftsman brands with Matco having the best selection. To answer your question in the definitive yes the GP are pinned as are the Sunex.
They're still good sockets that will serve you well.
outdoorsman310
Well-known member
the matco ones are the same as the craftsmans. The harbor freight ones are unreliable. I broke one first use and some others I still use. I bought snap on swivels and have one matco. I prefer the snap-ons.
Buckgnarly
Well-known member
Do you prefer the SOs over the Matco pinless? If so why? I ask b/c I really like the pinless and would love to hear some other good opinions on why people prefer SOs.
MattPersman
Well-known member
Like another guy said at hard angles and use the Matco bind up and usually cause damage to the socket swivel part and then it works like **** till you warranty it and then it happens all over again with the next one
The Mac are the shortest I have seen and take a beating well.
The Mac are the shortest I have seen and take a beating well.
outdoorsman310
Well-known member
IMO The snap-ons are smoother than the matcos and don't seem to try to "pull off" of the fastener as readily. I think the pinless may be stronger, but I prefer pinned ones. Also dirt and crud don't seem to affect the pinned sockets performance.
firebox40dash5
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
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I've used my 3/8 pinless sockets on my 3/4 gun and had them hold up. I've only "broken" one, the circlip popped out... never had one get stuck out of either my 1/4 or 3/8 set. I beat on mine mercilessly, and they're my go-to shallow sockets, only ones I keep on my cart. I wouldn't pay retail for them, but they're worth what I paid.
outdoorsman310
Well-known member
I just have the pinned snap-ons. They are the collar less ones in 3/8 metric and standard. I also have a 1/2 and 3/8 pinned swivel from snap on and a 1/4 drive Matco pinless swivel also the harbor freight swivels.
RedneckWelder
Well-known member
Pretty much my thinking...the swivels of either type can come apart on ya but I just can't pay the retail price for the pinless swivels from Matco. Hell I can't justify paying retail price for most things off the tool trucks.
That said, if the Craftsman or Armstrong ones cover your needs or you can get the Matco ones for a good deal (as one member here posted about fairly recently) then one might be inclined to go with them.
Hey, man, if it's not too much trouble, can you post a couple of pics of all three brands in a couple of different sizes, please? Thanks!
Depends. Again if you compare physical sizes the difference can be fairly substantial. If they're for daily use the extra money is worth it for a little extra clearance. The whole point to impact swivels is to get bolts out of tight spots, avoiding extra labor (money in your pocket) by bypassing removal of other components, so the smaller the socket the better. MACs impact swivels are also very shallow.
Beyond convenience, if size didn't matter, everyone could just buy 1 impact universal joint and attach sockets to it and there would be no market for these sockets at all.
You can find the Matco sets on ebay fairly regularly for $200-$250.
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Buckgnarly
Well-known member
Sure, give me until this afternoon....gotta hit the equipment auction this morning.
thanks I'll be returning these
I looked on the site and the overall length is pretty significant.
cookefab
Well-known member
I use the Matco pinless as my go-to sockets for road service...they get 10x the use of any other socket type that I own, and I've never had a failure. As for the usable angle argument, the pinless are better than any pinned type I've used, but only by 10 degrees, give or take.
My apprentice has the SO laser welded uni's, and they're too bulky, IMO. The pinless also don't eat torque as bad as the pinned type.
My apprentice has the SO laser welded uni's, and they're too bulky, IMO. The pinless also don't eat torque as bad as the pinned type.
Buckgnarly
Well-known member
dudutzu905
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 374
I have the old matco pinned in 1/2" dr. (made in USA, not the same as ADV), I have some Gp's and the new pinless matco
here's the ups and downs,
- the old matco pinned ones are pretty slim and short, very good all around,
- the new matco are slightly slimmer in most cases(I wish the 17mm wasn't as fat) and they're a little deeper than shallow, almost like a semi-deep but not quite, which can be very useful when trying to get a nut off and the bolt sticks trough just a little bit - enough not to be able to use a shallow socket, and sometimes that little extra length can be a pain...
- Gp's are like the old matco ones but much fatter across the board, cheap and reliable
dudutzu905
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it seems to me that the reason for the pinless matco tend to bind/pull-off is the same reason for them being "stronger", there is more contact surface vs the pinned style, and when you have a swivel socket with the swivel part a bit worn, maxxed out on angle and dry(no grease), those 4 contacts points don't "want" to slide/swivel easily, and that's when the socket tries to jump of the fastener
just like anything else, they might need a little cleaning and greasing once in a while, so next time when you clean/grease your ratchets, do the swivels too
just like anything else, they might need a little cleaning and greasing once in a while, so next time when you clean/grease your ratchets, do the swivels too
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I've been using the Matco pinless impact swivels in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch drive since they first came out and I haven't had any of the issues mentioned in this thread. I must be living good. 
All tool truck prices are insane. Ebay can be your friend when shopping for these but, be careful. There are many sets listed as pinless but, are in reality the lower cost Matco line and are pinned. If you want those, buy Gearwrench.
I have found over the years that the Matco pinless have a lower overall profile and are thinner than traditional collared impact swivel sockets. I haven't experienced any of the binding, grenading, or separation issues. In short, I like them and wouldn't want to be without them.
Are there other cheaper alternatives that will get the job done? Absolutely!! I would grab Gearwrench, Sunex, Grey Pneumatic, or NAPA in that order. The Gearwrench ones have a much thinner collar than the other brands and offer decent size markings. Shop around for the best deal.
All tool truck prices are insane. Ebay can be your friend when shopping for these but, be careful. There are many sets listed as pinless but, are in reality the lower cost Matco line and are pinned. If you want those, buy Gearwrench.
I have found over the years that the Matco pinless have a lower overall profile and are thinner than traditional collared impact swivel sockets. I haven't experienced any of the binding, grenading, or separation issues. In short, I like them and wouldn't want to be without them.
Are there other cheaper alternatives that will get the job done? Absolutely!! I would grab Gearwrench, Sunex, Grey Pneumatic, or NAPA in that order. The Gearwrench ones have a much thinner collar than the other brands and offer decent size markings. Shop around for the best deal.
MattPersman
Well-known member
I thought the actual angle of use was better on the Matco until I held a 13mm deep Matco vs a newer snap on and it was to my eyes the same.
I don't know if that is why snap on revised these a couple years ago or not but the newer snap on have held up much better than the Matco in my experience. I beat the hell out of 18 mm ones doing Chrysler product transmission R&rs. I have been using the Matco for years and years and years had old pinned ones that had been warrantied over the years to the pinless.
I have a set of Expert by Proto pinned shallow 3/8 metric I got for 100 bucks from the Mac truck and they have held up so far it has been at least 3 months of daily use. I put my Matco set in my box to test these out quality wise. They do have the collar like a lot of the imports do and the old snap ons did. So that makes them a little fatter but over all so far for the money been very good.
Like I said for max space constrictions the Mac brand ones are defiantly the shortest and shallowest. I do not have a complete set though. Mac service has been spotty over my years at different dealers.
Just adding a little more input for other possible options
I don't know if that is why snap on revised these a couple years ago or not but the newer snap on have held up much better than the Matco in my experience. I beat the hell out of 18 mm ones doing Chrysler product transmission R&rs. I have been using the Matco for years and years and years had old pinned ones that had been warrantied over the years to the pinless.
I have a set of Expert by Proto pinned shallow 3/8 metric I got for 100 bucks from the Mac truck and they have held up so far it has been at least 3 months of daily use. I put my Matco set in my box to test these out quality wise. They do have the collar like a lot of the imports do and the old snap ons did. So that makes them a little fatter but over all so far for the money been very good.
Like I said for max space constrictions the Mac brand ones are defiantly the shortest and shallowest. I do not have a complete set though. Mac service has been spotty over my years at different dealers.
Just adding a little more input for other possible options
cagullett1
Well-known member
Have you had any issues with the HF swivel impacts? I've heard that HF failed when they switched from a solid metal sleeve to the retaining spring. Have a buddy who had the spring fly off and the entire socket fell apart on him.
RedneckWelder
Well-known member
Matco isn't a bad option if you can get a student discount price, or go with Armstrong if they have the sizes you are looking for.
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autoxvaliant
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I love my 3/8 and 1/2 Cornwell swivels. I beat on them pretty hard too.
firebox40dash5
Well-known member
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You can always buy the Armstrong set and just add what they don't sell from Matco as well.
If you're a pro and have a Matco guy, see if he'll make a cash deal... I got a good bit off my 3/8" set that way, paid about ebay price for a new set.
Mine just saved me about half an hour of cussing with a stubby wrench putting a tensioner on a Chrysler 3.3.
