Matco Torque Sticks

[Buckeye5316]

I work at Sears auto center and have started to bring my Ingersoll Rand W7150 (1/2 cordless impact wrench) along with my matco torque stick set so I could get tire rotations done quicker without borrowing things. I was doing a truck and the spec was 140 ft lbs. I used a 120 stick to be on the safe side then we're going to torque them again to 140 with a calibrated torque wrench. I went ahead and put them on and as I was going over it with the torque wrench I noticed the lugs were already past 140ft lbs while using a 120 stick. Is this typical for torque sticks or are Matcos not the best brand for them?

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[ngk22r]

I dont use torque sticks because:

A: if your impact is weak you will not acheive said torque.

B: if your impact is too powerful you will be over said torque.

 

[scissorman]

I dont use torque sticks because:

A: if your impact is weak you will not acheive said torque.

B: if your impact is too powerful you will be over said torque.

This is also why I would NEVER use a torque stick. In order for a torque stick to be accurate you would need to know the torque rating of the gun it was calibrated with.

 

[ngk22r]

Forgot to add:

Temperature of the torque stick, is it really cold outside or really hot outside and thus effecting if the stick itself is cold or not.

PSI in the line coming into your gun?

Is your impact work out or well libricated?

A LOT of things to factor in to whether or not you achieve the correct torque...

But thats my 2¢

 

[Snapped-off]

I can't recall which brand it was, but one of the torque stick sets is calibrated for use with a 250 ft-lb impact wrench if you read the fine print.

Doesn't seem very practical when most impacts are triple that rating...

 

[L.Cheapo]

Breakaway torque and torque applied smoothly and linearly are two very different things. You'll never see a torque stick in my toolbox.

 

[Skin]

All torque sticks are calibrated for a specific impact wrench output. Clutch driven impacts and too much power cause them to tighten beyond their range before the spring bounces it back.

Since you work in a tire shop you might want to consider buying a dedicated torque wrench for them, but at the same time most shops force a re-check with a torque wrench anyway so in my opinion torque sticks are pretty worthless as far as being time savers. If your shop doesn't require that re-check then it might be worth it to you though.

 

[Mikerodrig27]

I never use torque sticks. I can see that they can be useful but in reality you are going to have to double check the torque on the bolts with a calibrated torque wrench regardless.

It's important that wheel torque is equal on all the lugs on the rim. uneven torque leads to rotors having uneven clamping force placed on them when ends up leading to brake pedal pulsation. Torque sticks aren't nearly accurate enough to prevent this.

I'd get quick at using a torque wrench and feathering the trigger on your impact gun.

 

[Squddle]

Wow. I noticed this too with torque sticks. Everyone I've talked to about it always said that no matter how long you hammer on the lugnut with the torque stick, it won't go above the stick's torque. I always thought it was a bit odd, because I noticed the same thing, with the lugnuts being over torqued, but who was I to question? So, merrily along we went using the torque sticks and sometimes the customer would complain that they couldn't get the lugnut off. I knew something was up with those things.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I spin them all on with a torque stick, then after they're seated I will hammer them on. my theory is if you don't stop after they're seated you'll go over.

I used them everyday and never had an issue.

 

[sberry]

I use an air impact, last time I checked after the fact 18 within 5%, one 10 low and one 10 hi

 

[xyhapu]

Torque sticks are accurate as long as your gun's specs and running pressures meet the torque stick's. This can be tricky since not all torque stick manufacturers list all the specs.

In your particular case, most likely the reason it overtorqued is because you used a gun with high impacts per minute, which for some reason (my assumption is that the high IPM does not allow the stick to spring back fully before getting hit again) will push the fastener beyond the stick's rating. Electrics tend to run at higher IPM, which is why manufacturers say to only use torque sticks with pneumatic guns, but if you had a pneumatic gun with high IPM I imagine the same thing would happen as well. For reference your gun runs at 2300 IPM, while most air impacts are at around 1000.

I have an electric running at something like 3000 IPM, and while it's only rated for 200 ft lbs max, it will easily 'overpower' an 80 ft lb torque stick all the way up to at least 150 ft lbs. That same torque stick on a 700 ft lb air wrench will stop dead at around 90.

 

[sberry]

Good to know so many of these are used every day isn't it?

 

[JettaGetUpandGo]

If you're going to torque the lugs down with a torque wrench anyways, why not just use the impact on a lower power setting or until the nut/bolt makes contact?

 

[AutoTeck84]

This was good to know. I've used trq sticks religiously since I got in the field. I was under the impression that trq sticks just would twist more with the same breakaway point with more powerful impact. It makes sence tough just never gave it too much thought.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I never used it on my battery impact. Only air. I think that makes a difference IMO

 

[abvw]

Used a set of 450ft-lb rated torque sticks, on an IR 2135TiMax running 120-150psi at max forward for three years and not one lug was overtightened (they all pop right off on the next rotation) or came loose. Surely they are not 100% accurate, even the best torque wrench has a 2-3% tolerance.

Torque specs on lugs, oil filters and drain plugs are merely for quality control, so that it doesn't take the next technician extra 30 minutes to deal with overtightened stuff on a routine service/maintenance. The only things that gets torqued down properly are wheel bearings and head gaskets.

 

[Mikerodrig27]

450 ftlbs! Wow, what are you working on? It's different when it comes to passenger vehicles.

Torque specs are very important on lug nuts. It's not so much the specific torque value but that all the fasteners are torqued to the same value. Say a torque wrench is 3% off and torques a Toyota sedan lug nut (76ftlbs) to 78.5ftlbs. It's okay so long as the other nuts are torqued to the same value. That's why I don't personally rely strictly on torque sticks for lug nuts.

I've dealt with plenty of over tightened fasteners from the previous techs. I've also had vehicles come in with bad brake pulsation as a result of unevenly torqued fasteners. Some of the time the studs have been stretched, or have fractured causing the lug nut to not come off right or in worse cases, snap the stud.

 

[The Toolest Guy]

If you work in a tire store then just buy a torque limited impact wrench. Most businesses and people are too stupid to realise that they exist or how they can save money. No I'm not talking about expensive calibrated production impact wrenches. I'm talking about your regular every day pneumatic impact wrench, except it has been torque limited internally from the factory. Then you can hammer all day without worrying about breaking anything.
P.S. The guns tend to last longer as well due to less torque being put through them...

 

[johninct]

Your impact wrench is too powerful. You need an impact wrench that puts out around 250 ft lb because the toque sticks are made for 250 ft lb. It does not matter if it is air or cordless as long as it only puts out 250 ft lb. I still use my Snap-On ct 3850 with a torque stick and it puts them on a little low then I use a torque wrench.

 

[abvw]

450 ftlbs! Wow, what are you working on? It's different when it comes to passenger vehicles.

Torque specs are very important on lug nuts. It's not so much the specific torque value but that all the fasteners are torqued to the same value. Say a torque wrench is 3% off and torques a Toyota sedan lug nut (76ftlbs) to 78.5ftlbs. It's okay so long as the other nuts are torqued to the same value. That's why I don't personally rely strictly on torque sticks for lug nuts.

I've dealt with plenty of over tightened fasteners from the previous techs. I've also had vehicles come in with bad brake pulsation as a result of unevenly torqued fasteners. Some of the time the studs have been stretched, or have fractured causing the lug nut to not come off right or in worse cases, snap the stud.

Sorry, I mean to say "calibrated for 450ft-lb impacts". I have a 10pc set but I only use the 90, 110 and 150. Every lug gets hammered for 3 seconds, twice.

The whole overtorqued lugs causes brake pulsation is ********. Push down the tophat of a cowboy hat and see if the bottom lip gets distorted. Pulsations right after a brake job usually means bad parts, especially those cheap $25 rotors that are warped right out of the box, and/or bad installs (no prep, no clean, no lube part slaps)

I've had a few comebacks that was caused by puddles on highway exit/off ramps (perfect pedal on my burnishing test drive) but never had a rotor warp from idiots hammering on lugs after a brake job or a routine tire rotations.

 

[jhelrey]

You could turn down the torque setting on the actual impact gun.

 

[xyhapu]

I was on the fence about overtorqued lug bolts causing brake pulsations until recently when I had a safety inspection done and they removed one of the front wheels. Que shaking steering wheel under high speed braking. Needless to say they had impacted the bolts on without any sort of torque limiting and I couldn't get them to budge with hand tools, they finally popped off with an impact. After tightening at a sane torque the shake went away. It was a very clear cause and effect with nothing in between, and I became a believer.

Now whether this was the rotor actually warping, or the rotor simply being tilted slightly against the hub due to different clamping forces, I don't know; I am leaning toward the latter.

 

[Erampu]

Okay, how does one check the torque with a torque wrench? From my point of view, all you can tell with a torque wrench is that the nut is at least as tight as where the torque wrench clicks, but it won't tell you how overtightened it is.

 

[L.Cheapo]

Okay, how does one check the torque with a torque wrench? From my point of view, all you can tell with a torque wrench is that the nut is at least as tight as where the torque wrench clicks, but it won't tell you how overtightened it is.

Yes. Not only that, but a lug that's been tightened to say...80ftlbs may require 95ftlbs to get it moving again....so "checking" with a torque wrench after the fact that's set to the mfr. spec of 90ftlbs may say it's tight enough...when in fact it's 10ftlbs low. (these numbers are completely arbitrary and for illustrative purposes only)

 

[Skin]

The whole overtorqued lugs causes brake pulsation is ********.

Not so much over torque as uneven torque. Plus its not healthy for the studs, bolts, wheels (especially aluminum). Some of them get corroded on so tight they didn't need the help of someone blasting them down to 2 or 3x their spec and you contribute to ruining the seat where the fastener contacts the wheel.

 

[johninct]

Okay, how does one check the torque with a torque wrench? From my point of view, all you can tell with a torque wrench is that the nut is at least as tight as where the torque wrench clicks, but it won't tell you how overtightened it is.

Say you need 100 ft lb. Hopefully your impact wrench with torque stick puts them on a little loose, say 80ft lb. Set the torque wrench to 100 ft lb and tighten the last to when it clicks. Kind of like when you tighten a head down, the first time around is lower than the final one but in this case, the first pass is the impact wrench with torque stick.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Say you need 100 ft lb. Hopefully your impact wrench with torque stick puts them on a little loose, say 80ft lb. Set the torque wrench to 100 ft lb and tighten the last to when it clicks. Kind of like when you tighten a head down, the first time around is lower than the final one but in this case, the first pass is the impact wrench with torque stick.

In a production environment that doesn't do anything but cost you more time

 

[Erampu]

Say you need 100 ft lb. Hopefully your impact wrench with torque stick puts them on a little loose, say 80ft lb. Set the torque wrench to 100 ft lb and tighten the last to when it clicks. Kind of like when you tighten a head down, the first time around is lower than the final one but in this case, the first pass is the impact wrench with torque stick.

You're kinda missing my point, John. Yes, in your scenario the torque wrench would be helpful, but if a nut is over torqued, how would checking it with a torque wrench tell you anything?

Using your figures, if you want 100 ft. lb. and you put a torque wrench on the nut to "check," all you know is that it's at least 100 ft. lbs. It could be 500 ft. lbs., but the torque wrench can't tell you how much over torqued it is.

 

[AmishFury]

the thing with torque sticks... i see them entirely as a safety net to make sure you don't accidentally overtorque a customer's lug nuts

and you shouldn't go full power on a high torque gun with them..

 

[johninct]

You're kinda missing my point, John. Yes, in your scenario the torque wrench would be helpful, but if a nut is over torqued, how would checking it with a torque wrench tell you anything?

Using your figures, if you want 100 ft. lb. and you put a torque wrench on the nut to "check," all you know is that it's at least 100 ft. lbs. It could be 500 ft. lbs., but the torque wrench can't tell you how much over torqued it is.

If you put a torque wrench on a wheel stud and it doesn't move when your torque wrench clicks, then the nut is probably on too tight.

 

[rlitman]

I never use torque sticks. I can see that they can be useful but in reality you are going to have to double check the torque on the bolts with a calibrated torque wrench regardless.

It's important that wheel torque is equal on all the lugs on the rim. uneven torque leads to rotors having uneven clamping force placed on them when ends up leading to brake pedal pulsation. Torque sticks aren't nearly accurate enough to prevent this.

This makes no sense.
Torque sticks are not all that accurate, but they are actually surprisingly precise.

What this means is that if you are trying to get a specific torque, you are not likely to hit it with a torque stick. But if all you want is five lug nuts torqued the same, the torque stick will do an acceptable job.

Do I use torque sticks on my lug nuts? Always. But I always use a size smaller and then finish tightening with my torque wrench once I put the wheels on the ground. And I've already gone through the calibration exercise with my impact, so I know what results I will get.

So why do I bother with the two steps? Well, you need to put on and tighten the lugs with the wheel off the ground. But off the ground, it's not so easy to use the torque wrench (because the wheel wants to turn). However, if the lugs are loose when you put the car down, there is a chance that the wheel may sit off center when you finish tightening the lugs. By impacting the lugs on in the air, I KNOW that the wheel is centered, and then I can gently lower the wheel and finish with a torque wrench.