Max amp size to shed?

[428PI]

Here's my situation. I have overhead wiring to my garage, shop, and shed and underground to house. My pole has a 225 amp main disconnect (which I assume disconnects the outbuildings and the house). I have a 100 amp box inside the house. My garage has a 40 amp 220 box which is real old and I only use the light (100 watt max) and a small gate opener for the garage door. Never do any work in there although 220 might be nice if I get an electric car. The shop has a 100 amp 220 volt box. The shed has an outdated 15 amp 110volt box (see my earlier post). There is another box on the pole that splits the wiring between all 3 outbuildings which is a 100 amp trip box. Question. Could one run a heavy enough lines from the pole that the 100 amp trip box is on and run a 100 amp box in the shed? In other words, is it ok to run 100 amp in the shop, 40 amp in the garage and a 100 amp box in the shed off of the 100 amp trip box? Right now as it appears from the ground that the wire running to shed is smaller than the ones going to garage and shop.

 

[PCustoms]

What is a trip box?

 

[428PI]

What is a trip box?

That's what's written on the box. I assume just a basic breaker box or subpanel.

 

[428PI]

I should have put this in the electrical forum. Didn't realize I was putting it into the free forum. Maybe moderator can move it?

 

[Bert_]

Yes you can have multiple buildings powered from an overhead line. The wire needs to be sized appropriately.

Maybe make a drawing with what you want to do. I'm having some trouble following what you typed

 

[The Cobbler]

I should have put this in the electrical forum. Didn't realize I was putting it into the free forum. Maybe moderator can move it?

done

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Here's my situation. I have overhead wiring to my garage, shop, and shed and underground to house. My pole has a 225 amp main disconnect (which I assume disconnects the outbuildings and the house).

you sure its 225a? thats an odd ball size...

There is another box on the pole that splits the wiring between all 3 outbuildings which is a 100 amp trip box. Question. Could one run a heavy enough lines from the pole that the 100 amp trip box is on and run a 100 amp box in the shed? In other words, is it ok to run 100 amp in the shop, 40 amp in the garage and a 100 amp box in the shed off of the 100 amp trip box? Right now as it appears from the ground that the wire running to shed is smaller than the ones going to garage and shop.

something doesnt make sense here. you wouldnt have a 100a box behind a 225a disconnect feeding everything. the service is literally downsized in half....

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That's what's written on the box. I assume just a basic breaker box or subpanel.

can you post some pics of your setup on the pole, with panel covers removed and on

 

[cherokee]

Here's my situation. I have overhead wiring to my garage, shop, and shed and underground to house. My pole has a 225 amp main disconnect (which I assume disconnects the outbuildings and the house). I have a 100 amp box inside the house. My garage has a 40 amp 220 box which is real old and I only use the light (100 watt max) and a small gate opener for the garage door. Never do any work in there although 220 might be nice if I get an electric car. The shop has a 100 amp 220 volt box. The shed has an outdated 15 amp 110volt box (see my earlier post). There is another box on the pole that splits the wiring between all 3 outbuildings which is a 100 amp trip box. Question. Could one run a heavy enough lines from the pole that the 100 amp trip box is on and run a 100 amp box in the shed? In other words, is it ok to run 100 amp in the shop, 40 amp in the garage and a 100 amp box in the shed off of the 100 amp trip box? Right now as it appears from the ground that the wire running to shed is smaller than the ones going to garage and shop.

I think that is the kicker. You want enough wire to take care of the load. An easy way to think about it is if it is copper and the size of your thumb, it needs to be about waist size if it is aluminum

Copper is so darn expensive, but if you need to do aluminum make sure to size everything for that larger cable, it is just so much thicker, and harder to work with.

 

[Bert_]

I think that is the kicker. You want enough wire to take care of the load. An easy way to think about it is if it is copper and the size of your thumb, it needs to be about waist size if it is aluminum

Copper is so darn expensive, but if you need to do aluminum make sure to size everything for that larger cable, it is just so much thicker, and harder to work with.

Being a little dramatic I think. Aluminum is often 2 sizes bigger for the same load. Nobody runs copper overhead

 

[428PI]

can you post some pics of your setup on the pole, with panel covers removed and on

The 225 amp was max load. It appears to have a 150 amp on the main switch. The 100 amp is pic of pole where the feeds are split to outbuildings.

 

[dave*99]

Is that an orange extension cord tapped of the service coming into the red building?

 

[dave*99]

We need to sort out what is a main panel and what is a sub in your layout. All that overhead stuff is 3 wire.

 

[cherokee]

Being a little dramatic I think. Aluminum is often 2 sizes bigger for the same load. Nobody runs copper overhead

Just a bit. I refuse to buy aluminum if at all possible, hate the stuff. And CCA is the devils own material.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Just a bit. I refuse to buy aluminum if at all possible, hate the stuff. And CCA is the devils own material.

aluminum feeder wire and CCA are not even close to being the same

the PoCos use aluminum for your drop cable

the aluminum alloys of today are not the same alloys from the 60s and 70s

 

[cherokee]

aluminum feeder wire and CCA are not even close to being the same

the PoCos use aluminum for your drop cable

the aluminum alloys of today are not the same alloys from the 60s and 70s

Yea I know, and I know they are not the same but I still just hate the stuff. **** they are making pickup trucks beds out of aluminum and I think that is just insane.

 

[Bert_]

Yea I know, and I know they are not the same but I still just hate the stuff. **** they are making pickup trucks beds out of aluminum and I think that is just insane.

I love aluminum wire, use it all the time.

 

[Bert_]

The 225 amp was max load. It appears to have a 150 amp on the main switch. The 100 amp is pic of pole where the feeds are split to outbuildings.

Is the 150a under the meter?

The 100A really doesn't serve any purpose unless you want to be able to turn off just those buildings

 

[428PI]

Is the 150a under the meter?

Yes.

 

[Noltz]

I still think pictures will help here. Draw it from top down or birds eye view where the wires you can see go. Plus close ups of the panels with the covers off if you feel safe doing so.

 

[428PI]

I still think pictures will help here

Here's a quick drawing of my place. I'm wanting to see if I can put in a triplex wiring from pole to shed that would support a 60-100 amp breaker box without doing anything else. Right now it's only one small hot and neutral. From the research I'm doing I think it's perfectly ok. The 100 amp box on the pole at the garage will protect all outbuildings at 100 amp.

 

[Zeke]

Is that an orange extension cord tapped of the service coming into the red building?

Good eye but I think the lighting is playing here. The wire looks to be bare at the foundation.

I'm not at all familiar with rural service. This will be an interesting thread for me.

 

[Bert_]

Here's a quick drawing of my place. I'm wanting to see if I can put in a triplex wiring from pole to shed that would support a 60-100 amp breaker box without doing anything else. Right now it's only one small hot and neutral. From the research I'm doing I think it's perfectly ok. The 100 amp box on the pole at the garage will protect all outbuildings at 100 amp.

Yes just replace the duplex (2 wires) with triplex (3 wires). Need #4 aluminum overhead for 100A

 

[428PI]

Yes just replace the duplex (2 wires) with triplex (3 wires). Need #4 aluminum fo

I may add solar in the future and not sure what that entails. Perhaps just another box at the shed on the down tube? I almost forgot about that.

 

[nadogail]

Sorry to tell you, but Assumptions will just get you into trouble. Assume is made of three words; ***, You & Me.

I am sending you back to the planning and evaluation stage,

 

[dave*99]

If the 150 under the meter on the main pole is the system main…..
Shouldn’t all the other 240 panels be fed with 4 wires as subs? Or am I missing something?
I suppose they could be old enough to be grandfathered.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If the 150 under the meter on the main pole is the system main…..
Shouldn’t all the other 240 panels be fed with 4 wires as subs? Or am I missing something?
I suppose they could be old enough to be grandfathered.

yes after 2008 code cycle... which means the OP needs a 4-wire feeder

 

[428PI]

yes after 2008 code cycle... which means the OP needs a 4-wire feeder

The power company did put a new pole up a few years ago and didn't say anything. I said there was a wire that at one time was attached to a light at the top but the light was wasn't there but warned them. I believe that they tucked the wire in the box but they said that they wasn't really supposed to be a wire in the main feed conduit. There isn't any inspections done in our county either.

 

[Bert_]

I'll be honest I've never ran a 4 wire overhead feeder, and I've never seen anyone else do it either.

 

[428PI]

Checking up on code it sounds like if there are no metallic conduit or phone or water lines to outbuilding a new 3 wire is permissible since it's existing. Any thoughts?or

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I'll be honest I've never ran a 4 wire overhead feeder, and I've never seen anyone else do it either.

doesnt mean its code permissible

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Checking up on code it sounds like if there are no metallic conduit or phone or water lines to outbuilding a new 3 wire is permissible since it's existing. Any thoughts? or

the new wire wouldnt be existing so no

 

[Bert_]

doesnt mean its code permissible

No but it is accepted in some areas

 

[428PI]

Luckily for me there is no code requirements.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Being a little dramatic I think. Aluminum is often 2 sizes bigger for the same load. Nobody runs copper overhead

Never say never, lol. this stuff is old, and you can see the green tint when the light is right.

I may add solar in the future and not sure what that entails. Perhaps just another box at the shed on the down tube? I almost forgot about that.

if you're doing grid tie, it'll be up to your power company. most likely another meter at the service entrance for the solar to feed back in, plus whatever disconnects they mandate.

The power company did put a new pole up a few years ago and didn't say anything. I said there was a wire that at one time was attached to a light at the top but the light was wasn't there but warned them. I believe that they tucked the wire in the box but they said that they wasn't really supposed to be a wire in the main feed conduit. There isn't any inspections done in our county either.

when the power company comes in, they don't ask questions. they move whatever's on the old pole to the new pole and GTFO.

Luckily for me there is no code requirements.

Just because no one will enforce it on you doesn't mean you don't want it. code is often written in blood.

 

[428PI]

Is that an orange extension cord tapped of the service coming into the red building?

That's the ground wire.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Luckily for me there is no code requirements.

there is... just because its not being inspected doesnt you dont do it to code.

if you run 3wire with a bonded neutral on the subpanel, you leave the potential for a shock hazard. adding 1 wire to the feeder is not hard or expensive. why not do it right?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That's the ground wire.

for what?

 

[428PI]

adding 1 wire to the feeder is not hard or expensive. why not do it right?

So all it would take is one more wire at the pole at the garage where the other 2 buildings split off? Run the neutral and ground on same connector at pole and run one as neutral in panel in shed and run the other as ground into panel (unbond panel) and run ground rod at shed too? I'm not sure what the ground wire at garage is hooked to. I'll try and find out. I know at my shop there isn't a ground wire to a rod but it was wired way later. There is a ground at shed too but right now it's not hooked to anything. Perhaps just grounding a steel shed. I accidently covered the ground rod with rock but it wasn't hooked to wire anymore. Wouldn't doubt that the garage had lightning rods on it at one time.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So all it would take is one more wire at the pole at the garage where the other 2 buildings split off? Run the neutral and ground on same connector at pole

yes neutral and ground connect to the same bar in the main panel. past that they need to have separate bars

and run one as neutral in panel in shed and run the other as ground into panel (unbond panel) and run ground rod at shed too?

yes 2 separate wires and 2 separate bars. GEC from rods goes to ground bar and neutral bar needs to be unbonded

I'm not sure what the ground wire at garage is hooked to. I'll try and find out. I know at my shop there isn't a ground wire to a rod but it was wired way later. There is a ground at shed too but right now it's not hooked to anything. Perhaps just grounding a steel shed. I accidently covered the ground rod with rock but it wasn't hooked to wire anymore. Wouldn't doubt that the garage had lightning rods on it at one time.

if its a 3-wire feeder, then the GEC from the rods should be connected to the bonded neutral bar.

if 4-wire, it should be connected to the ground bar and neutral bar should be unbonded.

one technicality on the 3-wire circuit- it cannot be used if there are parallel metallic pathways between the buildings, such as conduit, water line, phone line, etc...