MaxJax anchors

[gcan]

please help I am about to explode

I was on the original Max Jax group buy and have just cleared out my garage enough to install my lift, been working a total resto........
I have been trying to get the anchors set for 3 evenings and still no luck.....I've used 13 anchors and of those maybe 4 have grabbed correctly. Is there a better anchor than the wej-it anchors that are supplied?
To review
1) my detached garage was built 18 months ago
2) floor has wire mesh and fiber in the mix
3) it's 4-1/8" on one column and 4-1/2" on the other
4) I used a 5/8 bit to drill a pilot and then a 7/8" bit in a Bosch hammer SDS
drill
5) vacuumed the holes prior to hammering the anchor in the hole
6) all but 4 pulled above the floor level??????

What the hell!! I'm now using a reducer to shim it and find out how far they will pull up to see if they will even grab at all.
Are there other anchor options?

I've had about all this fun a person can stand....$1500 going to be crushed if I can't solve this soon

Advice?

 

[pattenp]

Not to insult your intelligence, but did you drill completely through the concrete and set the top of the anchor at a minimum of 1/2 inch below the concrete surface before tightening? Since I don’t have a MaxJax I’m not aware of the instructions included for setting the anchor bolts.

 

[bazar01]

Sorry to hear that. Before you crush it, I'll take it off your hands for the same amount shipped.
Kidding aside,
You have a fairly new concrete floor so you should have at least a 3000 psi mix. I wonder why the anchors did not grab. Normally, with the anchor set about 5/8" below the surface, it only needs max of 4 turns on the bolt for it to grab and reach 100 ft-lbs. If you go past 4 turns, it will stick out of the surface. On two of my bolts, I only achieved about 80 ft-lbs in 4 turns, which I think is enough to hold the columns in place but the rest reached 100 ft-lbs.

Did you drill thru the concrete so you can drive the anchors down under the pad and try once again? You need to try on a lower torque setting. Try again and set your torque wrench just to 80 ft-lbs and see if it grabs not more than 4 turns max. If it grabs in 3 turns, and reached 80, increase your torque wrench to 90 ft-lbs and tighten bolt one more turn. If it torques to 90 leave it there and do the rest of the anchors.

 

[pattenp]

Oh... assuming you did drill completely through, you may have had some blow out of the concrete and the anchor isn't grabbing until higher up from the bottom. You could use stud style anchors, but that kills the portability of the lift.

 

[gcan]

If I crushed it my wife would kill me.....I was just so frustrated and it continues

This morning I've replaced 2 more, yes I did drill through the floor thankfully so I can knock them down and replace.
I've also lowered the torque to 90, pried the edges of the sleeve out to facilitate grabbing, and on one that pulled out a 1/2" before it grabbed I just cut it off flush with the floor and will use it as is.....hey I'm no engineer but am able to work on most anything, very good mechanical skills, so it kills me that I'm having to make concessions like lowering the torque and cutting them off and still will most likely shim the base to be safe just to make these anchors work.
That is my main frustration, I can MAKE it work but not according to the engineered instructions.

I did consider using the stud type but your right then if I moved the lift I'll have to deal with the studs sticking up.....hey may go there yet I only have two more new wej-it's left

thanks for the replies.....back to the garage and my friendly anchors

 

[tatra]

did you not see the other threads mentioning using epoxy?.........as for studs, that is what i will use with the supplied anchours so as not to damage the threads.............place lift, apply studs by hand and zipp nuts on ...........

 

[sberry]

I am not a big fan of the Wejits or whatever they are, they use those on my lift, the installers left a bit to be desired, they could use a training upgrade.

 

[gcan]

I did see the post about using epoxy....like I said I can MAKE it work but was trying to folow the instructions especially since failure could mean life or death.

I just finished with the second column.....about 10 hours total spent on this....I ended up replacing 5 anchors, cutting two off flush, expoying 3 (ran out), and using shims on each bolt to allow the anchor to pull up. Way way to much "making it work" for a mass produced and sold item, where safety should be so important, in my opinion.

I did set it up so I can have the columns at either 126-1/2" or 117", to the back of the plate. Going with this spread allowed me to only have to set 8 anchors per side.

Thanks for all the input

 

[PowerDubs]

I don't even know that the grab matters much.

Think about it.. you load the lift with weight and even if all the holes were drilled slightly larger than the anchor so they could be freely slid in and out, the load is latteral. The anchors (5) would need to shear/bend/snap for that tower to fall over.

 

[gcan]

I thought they spec'ed 100# torque so they wouldn't pull out.
It would seem to me that the lift as it approached the top would tyr to pull in at the top which would cause it to pull up on the rear anchors....not sure??

 

[bazar01]

Loading on the anchors are majority in tension. Inside edge of the base plate is the fulcrum. So it's important that the anchors grab the concrete. Anchor load F1 is shared by the 3 outside anchors while F2 is shared by the 2 middle anchors.

 

[FlameOut]

I've been going through pretty much the same, but I finally got my anchors to hold, well other than the two holes I drilled where I hit rebar. I have 3 bolts in the one, and 5 in the other. The 2 that hit rebar are the two middle bolts, listed as F2 in above post. They seem to be holding. I raised my vehicle ok

On another note, what can I use to fill all of these extra holes? I have some mortar and sand left over. Can I use that? Makes me sick seeing my brand new floor looking like swiss cheese

 

[gcan]

Flame - man I thought I had problems....I kept working the same holes so doesn't look quite like yours I did have a chunk came out on one hole and I bought some epoxy at the local Home depot. It's a little darker than the rest but filled and hardened well. We use it a lot at work to fill divits where product gets dropped.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=11&subid=49&plid=159

Good luck

 

[LWW]

Holy ****! Has anyone here read the engineering requirements for these anchors and these lifts?! Your holes are supposed to be no closer than 5" from the NEXT nearest hole!

Concrete is BRITTLE and can SHATTER under the right conditions and unexpectedly after many uses with no problem.

Dude, I wouldn't get under that lift if my life depended on it... Oh, yeah, it does!

I hate to say it, but after the fourth or fifth hole, I would have called in a professional. My opinion is that you've seriously compromised the holding capacity of the floor with all those holes.

Honestly, I would cut out that whole section and re-pour. It seems like your tenacity may have worked against you here. I would get in contact with someone at Danmar in support and send them those pictures and describe your problem before you use your lift again.

If you get injured while working under your lift and it's installation does not meet the engineering requirements specified in the installation manual, you are completely hosed if not completely dead.

 

[gcan]

LWW - I believe you are absolutely correct.....the more I look at the "swiss cheese" the more obvious it is that the floor most lilely isn't safe the way I installed mine the second set of rear holes are 5-1/4" apart.

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

I agree with LWW, do not get under the lift if you have a swiss cheese floor. And don't try to fill those holes with mortar and sand. I would cut the section out and re-pour. It will cost money but you will get to stick around for a while longer.

 

[FlameOut]

I ordered 10 more anchors (at another $50+) so I guess I'll just move the lift to a different section of the floor. I think a lot of my problems was because my brand new Bosch hammer drill is defective. No matter what bit I put in, it wobbles, so therefore reaming the hole bigger than it should be. I ended up renting a Hilti, so I guess I'll be renting it again.

Funny thing is, when I installed it "temporarily" in my old garage, I had no problems at all

 

[bazar01]

I ordered 10 more anchors (at another $50+) so I guess I'll just move the lift to a different section of the floor. I think a lot of my problems was because my brand new Bosch hammer drill is defective. No matter what bit I put in, it wobbles, so therefore reaming the hole bigger than it should be. I ended up renting a Hilti, so I guess I'll be renting it again.

Funny thing is, when I installed it "temporarily" in my old garage, I had no problems at all

Oh please move it to a different bay in the garage. I had 2 suspect anchors but still can't go under the lift with no worries. I ended up bracing the top of the columns with a 1/4" thick 2 x 2 steel square tubing. I don't plan on moving it anytime soon.
Be safe!

 

[LWW]

FlameOut, I'm really glad you have room to relocate your lift. For anyone that's unclear about how these anchors are supposed to go into the floor, If you don't have to "hammer" them in, your holes are too big!

It ***** that your new hammer drill has that much run-out. I probably have the same model and I got lucky with mine. Welcome to "Made in China" hell...

You should have to hammer these in either with a good hammer or a single jack. You shouldn't have to wail on them, but it should take 7, 8 or 10 hits with the hammer to get them all the way in.

This ensures the anchors get a good "bite" on the concrete before you torque them down and will make sure they don't pull up.

I put a pair of large washers on the bolt before I screwed it into the anchor and screwed it down so the washers would stop the anchor from going more than 5/8" down in the concrete...

 

[gcan]

Bazar - do you have a pic of your addittional support? a little extra never hurt

 

[bazar01]

Bazar - do you have a pic of your addittional support? a little extra never hurt

Sure no problem. It gives me peace of mind.
I put a 1.5" x 1/2" thick steel plates on each end of the support and replaced the flat bar on top of the column that came with the lift.

 

[texmln]

Flameout,

I don't think your drill is defective... but you do need to start the final 7/8 hole in the 'drill only' position. Turn the hammer off and hit the pilot holes with a SLOW AND STEADY running start on drill only until you're down about 3/8. Then turn the hammer on and you will already be nicely 'seated' in the 7/8 hole - no more wobble or runout. That's how I did mine and all 10 final holes came out nicely with all bolts holding perfectly. Here you can see where I've installed one anchor and 'started' the other four under drill only:

There is a little spalling at the surface but it doesn't effect the hold at all. All of my bolts set up at around 3/8 under flush and have never moved. Gotta be patient with that hammer drill...

 

[troublemaker427]

What epoxy do you guys recommend to use with the anchors. I have a couple of anchors that don't appear to want to "bite". Most have tightened up ok so I'd rather not start over if possible. Would it be best to drove the ones not tightening up on through the bottom and reinstall new anchors with epoxy? Also where are the anchors available? Can I buy them local or do I need to get them via Danmar?

 

[72chevy]

Anchor Epoxy
FAST-PAC™ (ATPAC05KT)
Includes 5 ounce coaxial cartridge, adaptor and mixing nozzle.
http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/adhesives/at/
Purchased mine through Amazon.com (could not find local)

Wej-It Anchors
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...on=Go!&QueryString=pd58&submit.x=9&submit.y=6
Purchased locally at Grainger.

Yes Danmar / GES can supply them too.

 

[FlameOut]

I finally got my MaxJax installed today. Having a good drill sure makes the job easier. Because of the previous holes and control cut, I had to move the entire setup 32" closer to the front door, but seems to be working out fine