maybe pull handles aren't as strong as ratchets

[Nolan]

Some one questioned me on a previous thread where I described grenading a 1" drive Proto ratchet and a 3/4" drive New Britain ratchet on some stubborn fasteners om a couple of jobs.

That question was basically "why does everyone grab the ratchet rather than the pull handle for immovable bolts?"

My reply was pretty much, "you work with what you have available at the time".

Well, I got to thinking about it over the last few days and remember breaking more pull handles than ratchets over the years. So I made some calls and did some digging.

The old pear head 1 inch drive Proto ratchet is rated for something like 1375 foot pounds. The 1" drive sliding T handle is rated somewhere around 940 foot pounds.

When you step down to the little 3/4" drive ratchet, it's rated for 750 foot pounds. The pull handle and the sliding t are only rated for 565 foot pounds each.

I guess I won't waste any more money on pull handles.

 

[Packard V8]

Very interesting research. I'd never compared lbs/ft ratings before.

Also, I'll have to agree, I've seen many broken pull handles/breaker bars, as well as many worn and floppy ones. Of course, I've seen many broken and malfunctioning ratchets as well.

My observation is these days, younger techs raised on imports, seem to want to do everything with 3/8"drive impacts. I seem more good sockets ruined by this than anything. If a fastener looks stubborn, my inclination is always to reach for the next size up drive implement.

thnx, jack vines

 

[HandyManny]

I know this isn't the point, but I thought your reference to the "little" 3/4" drive was funny. Little....I guess it's all relative

 

[gofastman]

the 1/2" dual 80 ratchets can supposedly handle 700 ft lbs of torque:
image.snapon.com/international/pdf/s80_sl80_sh80_shl80_npa.pdf
I wonder if that really makes the SLF80 as strong as their 24" breaker bars

 

[Mike83]

I'd LOVE to see someone put 1375 lb-ft on a ratchet.

 

[mrjsl]

I think the older snap-on ratchets are pretty tough - I would grab one ahead of a pull handle because if you break it, the rebuild kit will usually fix it. Broken pull handles can't be fixed.

I worked offshore for a while, and once had to take some rusted nuts off huge studs that were through the flange of a blow out preventer. We had to pick the BOP up with a crane (weight: 30,000 pounds) and chain it to the deck to keep it still, then used a 36" pipe wrench for backup and a 48" pipe wrench with a 10' cheater pipe to break the nuts loose. We broke the 48" and one 36" backup, and had to go to the 60" pipe wrench That got it. That was after keeping them soaked with penetrating oil for 6 hours. A 60" pipe wrench is pretty dang heavy.

 

[HandyManny]

I think the older snap-on ratchets are pretty tough - I would grab one ahead of a pull handle because if you break it, the rebuild kit will usually fix it. Broken pull handles can't be fixed.

I worked offshore for a while, and once had to take some rusted nuts off huge studs that were through the flange of a blow out preventer. We had to pick the BOP up with a crane (weight: 30,000 pounds) and chain it to the deck to keep it still, then used a 36" pipe wrench for backup and a 48" pipe wrench with a 10' cheater pipe to break the nuts loose. We broke the 48" and one 36" backup, and had to go to the 60" pipe wrench That got it. That was after keeping them soaked with penetrating oil for 6 hours. A 60" pipe wrench is pretty dang heavy.

The fact that you were even able to exert enough force yourself on anything that needed a 60" pipewrench is amazing. How much does a 60" pipe wrench weight?

 

[mrjsl]

The fact that you were even able to exert enough force yourself on anything that needed a 60" pipewrench is amazing. How much does a 60" pipe wrench weight?

It weighs 51 pounds. There were two of us doing this, and I'm a pretty big guy, but the other guy I was working with was "Big Bill". He was about the size of an NFL defensive lineman.

 

[CamarosRus]

Just to clarify...........is the above "pull handle" also called a breaker bar by many of us???

Also, for those replying, how often do you use, how useful are the sliding T-handle bars ????

Thanks for the ongoing education,

 

[caper]

the 1/2" dual 80 ratchets can supposedly handle 700 ft lbs of torque:
image.snapon.com/international/pdf/s80_sl80_sh80_shl80_npa.pdf
I wonder if that really makes the SLF80 as strong as their 24" breaker bars

I'd say it's pretty strong.I gave it a good test last week.I had a bolt on a engine that was torqued pretty tight.I put my SL80 on it and wedged my self in so I could get a good push on the handle.The guys watching said the handle of the ratchet was bending pretty good by the time the bolt broke free.They asked if it had sprung back or permanently bent.It had returned to normal.When I checked the manual the torque on the bolt is 482 ft/lbs and use locktight.I guess I have to revise my statement I made when I got it that the ratchet felt cheesy.

 

[caper]

I'd LOVE to see someone put 1375 lb-ft on a ratchet.

Um,any idea how much torque it is when you push on a ratchet with a pulp loader?Done it many times.How about a Gray 3/4" ratchet with a 6 foot pipe and 2 200lb men pulling for all they're worth?My Gray 3/4 dr ratchet has had many hours of this type of treatment.I think I've only rebuilt it once or twice.

 

[Packard V8]

The fact that you were even able to exert enough force yourself on anything that needed a 60" pipewrench is amazing.

Most oil patch guys I know consider it a personal failure if they have to strain against a big wrench. I've seen 'em use among other things, a fork lift, a backhoe, a cable come-along, a hydraulic jack. a crane and a two-ton truck to turn a wrench.

how useful are the sliding T-handle bars?

for spinning off a nut, not bad. For breaking loose a hard one, usually too short.

thnx,jack vines

.

thnx, jack vines

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Um,any idea how much torque it is when you push on a ratchet with a pulp loader?Done it many times.How about a Gray 3/4" ratchet with a 6 foot pipe and 2 200lb men pulling for all they're worth?My Gray 3/4 dr ratchet has had many hours of this type of treatment.I think I've only rebuilt it once or twice.

Assuming the two guys can each pull/lift 200lb (their own weight), with a 6 foot pipe/bar that's 2,400lb/ft of torque. If the pipe wasn't all the way up to the ratchet head or the guys lift more, even more torque.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Most oil patch guys I know consider it a personal failure if they have to strain against a big wrench. I've seen 'em use among other things, a fork lift, a backhoe, a cable come-along, a hydraulic jack. a crane and a two-ton truck to turn a wrench.

Working with a friend on a JCB excavator, breaking bolts loose with a 5' construction wrench. (like a single ring-end wrench with a long handle.) we couldn't get one loose with our combined force. (I'm 147lb, he's 315lb, built like a freakin' brick house.) so he chained up the end of the wrench to his (8x8 ISX-powered) wrecker truck, put it in low, locked the diffs and drove it forward. with a ping the bolt came loose. I learned that day that the "eye" welded to the wrench handle wasn't for hanging it up in the shop..

 

[caper]

Assuming the two guys can each pull/lift 200lb (their own weight), with a 6 foot pipe/bar that's 2,400lb/ft of torque. If the pipe wasn't all the way up to the ratchet head or the guys lift more, even more torque.

Sounds good to me and I can remember the bolts screeching the whole way.And for those using a pipe as an extender,always slide it all the way up to the head of the ratchet.Most times it doesn't bend the handle that way and less chance of it slipping.

 

[mrjsl]

Most oil patch guys I know consider it a personal failure if they have to strain against a big wrench. I've seen 'em use among other things, a fork lift, a backhoe, a cable come-along, a hydraulic jack. a crane and a two-ton truck to turn a wrench.

Well, this was offshore, and you don't have any of that stuff. An Air hoist, two cranes and a drawworks are the main force tools and to rig up any of those to pull horizontally all the way down on the pipe rack would have been a big job. We actually did this during a rig move, so lots of stuff was torn down and not operational at the time.

The general rule offshore back then was... if brute force fails, apply more brute force, and if the additional brute force causes something to break, send that defective junk back to land

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Sounds good to me and I can remember the bolts screeching the whole way.And for those using a pipe as an extender,always slide it all the way up to the head of the ratchet.Most times it doesn't bend the handle that way and less chance of it slipping.

Well, you two guys can most likely pull more than your own weight, so there's a good chance it was even more torque than that. If you could each like 300lb, you're up to 3,600lb/ft.

My friend and i found that his wrecker made breaking the bolts loose much easier, so we used it for the rest of the job too. Burned a lot of diesel, moving 1' at a time.

 

[Nolan]

Just to clarify...........is the above "pull handle" also called a breaker bar by many of us???

Also, for those replying, how often do you use, how useful are the sliding T-handle bars ????

Thanks for the ongoing education,

Yes, some people call a pull handle a "breaker bar".

I've got an old Craftsman 3/4" drive sliding T that I use from time to time with a 3/4" to 1/2" drive adapter. Sometimes pushing AND pulling at the same time seems to work better than simply pushing or pulling alone.