MDF vs Pine vs Hardwood

[mayday0017]

Not a garage question but a house question...

I am getting new carpet put in on the 1st of Sept so I have decided to repaint all the rooms in the house I haven't found time to paint yet. Trim, walls, and Ceilings.

During this decision I thought about how beat up the old baseboards were from previous owner and how much work it has been to repair the ones I have gotten to. After some thought I decided that it was more work to repair then just replace all of them, and that I never liked them so busting my *** to fix something I don't like doesn't make sense.

That leads me to where I am now. It is just myself and my wife in my house if that matters as far as wear and tear. I am careful and take care of my stuff as well, making sure not to bang furniture or anything else into walls. With that said, I am having a hard time finding pine baseboards. The ones currently in the house are MDF and most I find at the big box are MDF as well. I am familure to working with MDF and know the properties and honestly think I would prefer any "real wood". But not being able to find a pine we like (at least where we looked) and the price of pine being almost double that of MDF. What do people recommend? Is the MDF widely accepted as a quality material to use for baseboards and I'm just being old school? Is it just "ok" if you take care of it but not good for high traffic places? OR should I run from the MDF and keep looking till I find a pine and use that?

I really hate how it seems like everything you buy these days is MDF or Particle board, for most things it is heavy, swells, and falls apart. But I guess for some things it is good? I know it's great for building speaker boxes with

 

[deter]

MDF is just fine as long as it doesnt get wet. It contours better to walls that arent perfectly flat. obviously MDF is only a paint-grade material

 

[pattenp]

The only downside is the moisture issue, MDF doesn't like to get wet. I would not use it in areas such as baths and kitchens. MDF is okay if being painted. It is stable and takes paint well without a lot of prep.

 

[mayday0017]

Well typically you want to use the same trim through out the house so it all matches up perfectly. I can't even find pine in the same trim if I wanted to use it in the wet area's. I'm painting all of the trim with oil based paint like a good boy, so do we think if I just spray the backs and bottoms when I prepaint the fronts that this will seal it up good enough to keep moisture out?

 

[csp]

Find a real lumberyard. Posting your location might help also. Someone else may be in the same area and have a recommendation.

Big box stores ****.

 

[Mister Moose]

I agree on the moisture issue. Anywhere water might find its way the MDF will swell and distort, so kitchens and bathrooms are obvious places not to use it.

MDF sands very poorly. Use a very sharp carbide blade for smooth cuts.

I think MDF is less suited to abrasion, and repairs to it are much more difficult. It will chip off when struck, especially on more detailed profiles.

For out of the way areas, like crown molding, it can do very well and save significant dollars.

Baseboards I'd think twice.

 

[mayday0017]

I'm located in Houston, so locating lumberyards isn't hard.... I know I can find pine trim just trying to decide if paying twice as much for pine is really going to be worth it. I hate MDF for the same reasons mentioned here and have done quite a bit of work using it over the years. Mostly wasn't sure if I was behind the times and that MDF is considered good for trim...

 

[moserjj]

I just finished our new house with MDF trim 1x6 base and 1x4 casing mainly due to cost. I considered poplar as we painted all the trim and that is what most builders use around here for paint grade trim when they upgrade from MDF. We installed it all, filled holes, sanded, caulked and then sprayed with an airless after install. What a freakin hassle but sure looks nice

 

[JasonW]

I want to echo the comments on moisture and chipping. I use MDF in offices where they are looking for a higher end feel than vinyl base. It paints and holds up well but we never use it in wet areas and it is never a fancy profile, in fact, sometimes it is literally milled out of 4x10 sheets of high density material. My guys use Bondo to join all the seams. Definitely find yourself a lumber yard and being as you are in the Houston area, check out Habitat For Humanity's ReStore. I know you have one south of town, you may have more. You never know what you will find there, it changes regularly, but you might just find something that will work and at a considerable savings.

 

[rlitman]

Well typically you want to use the same trim through out the house so it all matches up perfectly. I can't even find pine in the same trim if I wanted to use it in the wet area's. I'm painting all of the trim with oil based paint like a good boy, so do we think if I just spray the backs and bottoms when I prepaint the fronts that this will seal it up good enough to keep moisture out?

The box stores by me have plastic moldings (kind of a foam, with a hard surface), that comes in the same profiles as the MDF they offer.

That being said, my house was built in 1929, and I've been restoring the architectural details to as close to original as possible. That means pine and poplar for me (I use poplar for the window seats e.g. , as pine is softer and dents more easily).

What do you mean about having a hard time finding pine baseboard?
Pine baseboard moldings were never meant to be installed in one piece. Old construction had much more wavyness in walls than what's acceptable today, and baseboard was designed to compensate for it.
You would have a single rectangular piece of "base" molding on the bottom.
That has a "cap" molding sitting on top of it (I usually get ones that have a "B" profile). The cap molding flexes a little, to compensate for waviness in the walls. Then, a "shoe" molding is installed in front of the base molding, to compensate for any waviness in the floor.

Done this way, you mostly have to worry about the cap molding profile, and usually there are 3 or 4 ones you can choose from at most stores.

 

[wnstwolf]

If you painting it the added cost of the pine is not justified. This was one of the drivers for my wife and I to build rather than buy. In the area all the newer homes were what we called plastic. they were very cery nice but not one piece of wood to be found anywhere. We like the Craftsman/timberframe designs and built a Timberframe which we completed all interior aspects on. Here in the Northeast Hardwood is somewhat prevelant at least Oak. I was able to have a local hardwood mill supply me with 2,300 LF of White oak for door and windor casing and another 2,000 LF for base (5" wide) at a cost that was just over the stain grade Pine at box stores. Granted we wanted to stain so any paint grade pine will be much less. Also bought a **** load of the stuff. As mentioned the job is a pain but nice call on replacing your finished project will look great..

 

[mayday0017]

The box stores by me have plastic moldings (kind of a foam, with a hard surface), that comes in the same profiles as the MDF they offer.

Pine baseboard moldings were never meant to be installed in one piece. Old construction had much more wavyness in walls than what's acceptable today, and baseboard was designed to compensate for it.
You would have a single rectangular piece of "base" molding on the bottom.
That has a "cap" molding sitting on top of it (I usually get ones that have a "B" profile). The cap molding flexes a little, to compensate for waviness in the walls. Then, a "shoe" molding is installed in front of the base molding, to compensate for any waviness in the floor.

Done this way, you mostly have to worry about the cap molding profile, and usually there are 3 or 4 ones you can choose from at most stores.

Not sure what your talking about here? Sounds like you are saying how to install it... If so I'm good in that area done more coping and installing then I ever cared to just questioning use of MDF. Install instructions from how I'm understanding you putting them sound right to me though

 

[Steevo]

Lowes and Home Depot generally both carry MDF and foam/plastic baseboard profiles, in at least a couple of styles. That way you can use MDF for the dry areas and plastic for bathrooms and laundry rooms and such.

 

[mayday0017]

Sounds like I need to check Homedepot and see if they have the plastic version of my baseboard and how it matches up. Also sounds like MDF is considered ok for use in dry area's, really expected everyone to bash it at same time glad that didn't happen..

I just hope that the plastic and the MDF baseboards match up really damn close.... I'm use to installing true hardwood for stain, and there is matters that all of the trim was milled at the exact same time or you will have issues getting things to matche up perfect.

 

[rlitman]

Not sure what your talking about here? Sounds like you are saying how to install it... If so I'm good in that area done more coping and installing then I ever cared to just questioning use of MDF. Install instructions from how I'm understanding you putting them sound right to me though

Gotcha. I was assuming you were looking at the one-piece MDF moldings that are the majority of options in the box stores. What can I say, they look like cheap, new construction.

The plastic version will not match up perfectly, if you're expecting it to meet on a miter, or something like that. It is close enough that you wouldn't notice the difference between rooms. Since you would have a door casing interrupt molding in plenty of places, you can usually get away with using the plastic in one room, and the wood/mdf in another.

Oh, and pre-primed, finger-jointed pine is not much more expensive than MDF. This is what I'd suggest you look at, if you're going for painted molding anyway.

 

[GOLF for LIFE]

Find a real lumberyard. Posting your location might help also. Someone else may be in the same area and have a recommendation.

Big box stores ****.

X2 yes BB stores **** and not in a good way. One day the sales person is selling paint and the next working in the garden dept.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Sounds like I need to check Homedepot and see if they have the plastic version of my baseboard and how it matches up. Also sounds like MDF is considered ok for use in dry area's, really expected everyone to bash it at same time glad that didn't happen..

I just hope that the plastic and the MDF baseboards match up really damn close.... I'm use to installing true hardwood for stain, and there is matters that all of the trim was milled at the exact same time or you will have issues getting things to matche up perfect.

The HD local to me has a large selection of trim of all varieties.

 

[mayday0017]

Yeah I think I'm going to try running to a lumberyard in my area before buying and see what they have... Nicest thing about BB store is I have Lowes and HD less then 1 mile from the house, makes it really hard to go other places for most things. As long as price is simular though I have no problem driving a little further to a lumberyard and picking up my trim. Only other problem I can think of is hours of the day I am free to go....

 

[JasonW]

The box stores by me have plastic moldings (kind of a foam, with a hard surface), that comes in the same profiles as the MDF they offer.

Perhaps some of you guys have had better results with plastic than I have but for the most part I would stay away from it. It is hard to cope, doesn't hold paint, dings easy, and generally seems to have a mind of it's own. That said, I have seen a product that I believe was called Timberon which was much denser than the less expensive stuff. I bought a section to use as closet rod and it has worked great. I don't remember if it came from Home Depot or Lowes but I also don't think that either carries a good selection of it anymore.

 

[mayday0017]

The HD local to me has a large selection of trim of all varieties.

I guess let me be clear in my statement... HD and Lowes both have a large selection of trim in all material types. However for the tall baseboards we want I could not find anything but MDF offered....

One other thing on the MDF, is if I end up going that route and can't get plastic to match, at least the quarter round that contacts the floor will be pine and I will paint the MDF on all sides to keep as much moisture out as possible....

 

[JasonW]

What sort of profile are you looking for? You said 'tall'. Could you create something on your own. I am thinking rip the main body of the base from a sheet of 'exterior' MDF and install it raised slightly off the floor. Install a pine or poplar base shoe tight to the floor, and then some sort of decorative pine or poplar cap along the top. Perhaps that is fancier than you are looking for but the use of sheet goods would keep the cost down.

 

[mayday0017]

Honestly I don't have the time, great suggestion and really wish I had the time to do something like that. I have 3 weeks to get 5 rooms painted & trimmed working only in the evenings after work.

Basically sounds like I need to run to another store and see if they have pine simular to what we like and if not just grab my big box MDF and seal it up good... Honestly I'll prob paint all sides for everywhere in the house that way if it gets wet from anything else it will hold up better too....

 

[Mister Moose]

I guess let me be clear in my statement... HD and Lowes both have a large selection of trim in all material types. However for the tall baseboards we want I could not find anything but MDF offered....

In several of my trim catalogues for a given common profile there are paint grade glued up pine, stain grade pine, and MDF. The number of options in MDF for the larger profiles is very large. Many of the larger profiles are available only in MDF. I'm sure this is due to the scarcity of good wide boards, the resultant high cost, and the minicule market that is willing to pay for it. At that point most high end homes are doing custom moldings out of poplar (painted) or cherry/oak/walnut (stained).

 

[Falcon67]

The tall baseboard I'm looking at at HD is primed pine, 1.71 ft.

 

[Boomer343]

How wet are you getting the baseboards? If you are getting them wet enough to swell mdf then you have to be doing damage to any wood out there that I'm familiar with.

It certainly helps to primer and if you are splish splashing a lot then after install run a bead of clear caulking around the floor edge. Run some masking tape and you'll get a really nice bead.

I usually run a bead of no more nails on the back before install of mdf or any baseboard for that matter, cuts down on the nail holes that need to be filled.

If you have damage then using some automotive glazing putty and a quick dab of paint and you are back in business.

Other nice thing about mdf is the length of pieces you can get, 16 footers makes for less waste and pretty quick install.

As always your experience may vary.....

 

[ishiboo]

I have always been a "real wood" fanatic.

Recently, I installed LP moulding which is made from some sort of foam. In the store, it looks slightly fake... installed, you can't tell the difference. It's VERY easy to work with, appears as though it'd be impervious to moisture, and it goes on very quickly. The only problem is they don't provide a lot of options to match the stain for custom pieces.

Something to think about. I've NEVER had an issue finding a huge selection of stain-ready pine at the local stores, guess it's a regional thing.

 

[WheelsNT]

I guess let me be clear in my statement... HD and Lowes both have a large selection of trim in all material types. However for the tall baseboards we want I could not find anything but MDF offered...

From the above, I assume you're doing a 1-piece base, or maybe a 2-piece base using a baseboard and a separate shoe? My answer would be don't do it this way. I think it's actually faster/easier (and looks better) to do a 3-piece base. Use standard paint-grade 1x (3/4" width) boards for the base -- say you want the whole thing to be ~7" high (you said a tall base), then get a 1x6. If you want ~9" high start with a 1x8. Put the top edge of your 1x level. Don't worry if the 1x isn't flush with the wall at the top, this gets covered by the top cap. Don't worry about the gap at the bottom since you will cover that with the shoe. Nail through the top edge of the base at a 45* angle (this will be hidden by the top cap) and through the bottom front 1/2" (this will be covered with the shoe). So, there are no nail holes in the base to worry about. Now add your favorite top cap, use your 18 ga. brad nailer to nail it in an upward direction from below one of the curved areas in the profile. In order to see your nail hole, someone has to crawl on the floor. Finally add the shoe. The only nail holes that need to be filled are in the shoe. The top cap follows the curves in the wall, and shoe follows the curves in the floor. The base 1x itself doesn't have to be tight to either. For the corners, cope them with a dremel and the #543 wood carving wheel. You can cut with the edge or you can push this wood carving wheel sideways into the wood -- very fast. Since the base is just a 1x, you don't have to cope it, you just lap it in the corners.

Now you're not limited by whatever height they sell in a full baseboard, use your own height and add a cap.

Also, I find prices on this stuff to actually be cheaper in the local lumberyard than at HD. YMMV.

Hope this helps!

 

[tthornto]

This sounds like the perfect excuse to buy tools to me. Get a router, a router table and a bit that will put a profile you like on the wood and then you can use whatever wood you want. It would be more work, and wouldn't save you much if any money, but since when has that stopped any of us when it comes to justifying a tool purchase.

 

[mayday0017]

Wow this thread has had a lot of feedback, thanks everyone! I see several good options here and some good feeback on MDF! I couldn't imagine the time it would take me to setup and run 1,000+ ft of molding through my router and the mess that would make....

I just realized the pic I took of HD trim that looks just like the Lowes trim I was gonna buy says PINE, I took the pic to show to lowes for price match cause it's cheaper then Lowes, looks like I'll just be going to HD and picking up the trim in primed pine for less then the MDF at Lowes and call it a day!

 

[snorky18]

MDF vs Pine vs Hardwood

MDF if you can live with how easily it chips, it's vulnerability to moisture, or if you're value-conscious.

Pine is sort of middle of the road.

Hardwood if you have lots of money to spend on to trim AND someone who can install it to close tolerances so the gaps are minimal (assuming stain grade).

We did MDF in our last house, and this one had MDF when we moved in. It's chipped in a 3-4 places, but fine other than that. If the chips bothered me, they're easy to fill and paint over. And I have an 8 month old and a dog that can probably be a little rough on it at times.

 

[mayday0017]

Not sure if I have mentioned the trim I am removing is MDF, prevous owner had a lab that pissed on the wall in 2 places and trim is screwed up. Every corner is messed up & when the previous carpet was installed the installers hit the MDF and it busted and frayed instead of just denting like a solid wood would... Hopefully I am right and the HD pine is the same as the Lowes MDF we looked at....

 

[ddawg16]

You need to find a 'real' moulding store.

I have a couple in my area....I can get the same shape moulding in MDF, Pine or hardwood.

Considering the difference in price between pine and hardwood....I prefer hardwood.

One advantage of MDF is that you can get taller and thicker pieces vs the real woods.

You can actually use it in a damp area 'if' you paint the backside and bottom as well prior to insulation.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Mostly wasn't sure if I was behind the times and that MDF is considered good for trim...

You're definitely not "behind the times".
With a sound mind you have come to the cross roads of "Cheapest Material Available (better known as you get what you pay for)" and Quality material that won't, chip, flake, swell, mushroom, or dent at the mere mention of such words.

I refuse to use MDF trim in any project I do- I don't need the callbacks.

 

[mpraddict]

Besides the comments about chipping already mentioned, my experience with MDF is not good if you expect to have much variance in humidity in the home between winter and summer (expect to see the joints open up)....this might not be an issue for you in CA

 

[8587GN]

why not find a local lumber yard and get finger jointed poplar ? it normally comes pre primed as well

 

[pcgold]

Sort of on topic. I replaced all the baseboards in a previous house I owned. I couldn't use a coping saw to save my life, but I wanted to do it right. I bought this:

http://www.thecoper.com

It works amazingly well and can perfectly cope a baseboard in about 5 seconds. (Professionals - no need to slag me. This was a Godsend to me.)

 

[pcgold]

BTW, many of HD's mouldings and other Big Box stores buy their mouldings from Alexandria.

Huge selection and online catalogue here:

http://www.alexmo.com/?page=mouldings

 

[Kevin54]

We switched out ALL of the mouldings in our house to a combo of MDF and Pine. I put in the 5 1/4" Colonial baseboards and beaded door casings. We've never had a problem with any chipping of any sort on the MDF. It's also in the bathrooms and have not had any problems. Heck, the cabinets are made from MDF with wood trim as were the old ones.

If painting the trim, I'd have no problem at all with MDF. The largest factor is if you are using an air powered nailer is to set your adjustment.

 

[mayday0017]

Well ran to HD last night since they were open till 10pm, got in right before close to check if I was correct about them having the exact same baseboard as lowes but in pine instead of MDF and they did. Went ahead and grabbed 60ft so I can do 1 bedroom today after work, going to go pick up another 800ish ft over the weekend when I have more time to pick through each board inspecting for damage. Pine is kinda middle of the road, but for me I like how much easier it is to repair if damage happens... MDF you can't really sand out scratches or chips if ever needed. Hell the Pine was 30c a ft cheaper then the MDF at lowes was any ways so it turned out to be a double win!

 

[NYCreno]

We switched out ALL of the mouldings in our house to a combo of MDF and Pine. I put in the 5 1/4" Colonial baseboards and beaded door casings. We've never had a problem with any chipping of any sort on the MDF. It's also in the bathrooms and have not had any problems. Heck, the cabinets are made from MDF with wood trim as were the old ones.

If painting the trim, I'd have no problem at all with MDF. The largest factor is if you are using an air powered nailer is to set your adjustment.

hi all,

i'm about to do a gut reno in my NYC coop apartment with new base moldings (1x6x8) and door casings (1x4x8).

when i went to HD, i saw primed FJ (1x4x8) for $7.65. i went to a lumberyard and can get pine wood (1x4x8) for $3.50. MUCH cheaper. the pine base molding is about $6.

my question, which is harder/resistent to dents and more durable?

since i will paint it all white, it may get banged from time to time from my floor vacuum cleaner, and the apartment will be a bit dry in winter (due to fixed temperatures in the 70s)?

thanks in advance.