Mechanic qualifications?

[nissan_crawler]

Ahh that makes sense.

Took the tests late in the senior year, already had the year of indy work, just had to wait until I was done with school, then got the certs.

In hindsight, complete waste of money. Oh well. It was sponsored, so it didn't cost me anything, but somebody else could have used it. Our school covered it due to getting second place (screwed by a damn tennis ball) at the ford/AAA comp, and first in the VICA comp.

 

[dreaminbimmers]

I think some form of certification should be required. It would at least weed out the people who definitely shouldn't be techs and possibly even set a respectable standard for the profession.
I'm in my fist year of two year automotive program and 30 to 40 percent of the students in my class can't hardly complete their homework let alone pass an ase certification test. Will these students make it though the program? That is yet to be seen. Educational programs are typically designed to help students be successful. Will these students, or will I for that matter, be "qualified" upon completion of the program? That largely depends on the experience I gain in the mean time.
There is a lot to be said about experience. But just because somebody has been in the field for a while and technically has experience doesn't mean that they have gained the skills needed to be an proficient technician. He or she might just be another parts swapper looking to beat the flat rate by as much time as possible.

To speak to the original posters question...
I'm in. My qualifications are currently fairly minimal and if others know that they can interpret my input as they wish. This is a great venue for exchanging info and sharing experience. I'm psyched to know that there are highly qualified people on here wiling to contribute what they know.

My $.02 if you haven't already figured that out

 

[Coach James]

To those that think certifications are a waste of time, would you also agree that a license to practice law or medicine is a waste of time?

Would most people stating that certs are a waste of time be people lacking certs? Would most people stating they are beneficial be people with certs?

Coach

 

[nissan_crawler]

To those that think certifications are a waste of time, would you also agree that a license to practice law or medicine is a waste of time?

Would most people stating that certs are a waste of time be people lacking certs? Would most people stating they are beneficial be people with certs?

Coach

I had the ASE certs, and have an FAA license for an A&P mechanic, I think they're worthless.

From my experience, most medical licenses are worthless, also.

 

[autoace]

I had the ASE certs, and have an FAA license for an A&P mechanic, I think they're worthless.

From my experience, most medical licenses are worthless, also.

The ASE exams can be frustrating for real world problems. Sometimes I read the question and look at the choices and say to myself, DEPENDS,i.e.what model car? what were the fuel trim values? A real world tech can quickly foresee potential problems.

One question on the advanced test described a rich running engine with generic rich, both banks OBD2 codes, with short term fuel trim @ highest lean adjustment percent,engine stalls at idle. I look at the answers and immediately think possible fuel pressure regulator malfunction, or restricted air box flow. I want to know what the fuel pressure was, could be a faulty ignition component, was it a distributor engine or direct ignition???? The available answers were vague, like fuel pump,restricted exhaust,EGR valve,O2 sensor there was not enough info supplied. One must assume at this point, no O2 codes or voltage given,rule that one out, fuel pump usually all or nothing,dampened by the regulator,nope,probably not that,restriction on exhaust, possible,but no O2 readings given. Choose EGR as most plausible choice given but say to self, not real world question without data.

 

[stioc]

Since we're on the topic of certifications, as an advanced DIYer I'm noticing the new trend in auto manufacturers to use more and more proprietary technology. Take for e.g. OBDII, it's be mandated since 1996 or so and all cars have it but just because you have a OBDII compliant scanner doesn't mean you have access to all the information in the black box. In fact, a lot of newer cars can only be properly diagnosed using that brand's supplied equipment and tools. So no matter your generic certification level with so much manufacturer specific stuff to know about these days how do those help. It's frustrating for the DIYer and I bet it's even more frustrating for the independent car repair facilities? With more advanced cars e.g. hybrid and flex-fuel now becoming more mainstream how will the independent repair shops keep up with the changing technology?

 

[ossaguy]

I have been in the outdoor power equip/small engine trade since 1978.For years there was never any formal recognized certification programs out there.In the 90's,they came out with a national program,that has evolved over the years,and I did the studying and took the tests as they came out with them.Started at 200 questions,( but now is at 150) that are closed-book 2 hour timed tests that do challenge I'll bet everyone that takes them.I have passed the 2 stroke,and 4 stroke ones,and then the electrical one,and the compact diesel and lastly the drivetrain/hydraulics test.It's only good for 3 years so I've had to re-certify several times.Lately though,I've let them expire since they cost the boss about $50.00 a test,and although to me it's important to have those diplomas on display for a customer that happens to visit my work stall,the OPEI signs are not recognized by the average customer like an ASE sign/patch,so it doesn't seem too cost-effective for business owners,I think.It looks good on a resume,though.It does show a boss interviewing an applicant that at least the guy has the desire to stand out from the crowd,and that he has the head-knowledge at least.

 

[nissan_crawler]

The ASE exams can be frustrating for real world problems. Sometimes I read the question and look at the choices and say to myself, DEPENDS,i.e.what model car? what were the fuel trim values? A real world tech can quickly foresee potential problems.

That's much like the A&P test, not too mention, 90% of it is stuck in the 40's and completely pointless.

"When splicing a pine spar, what degree kerf cut do you use?" Honestly, who gives a damn? If I'm working in a freaking museum, I'll look it up.

"XXfabric has to be tested to what strength?" Hell if I know. Again, irrelevant info for 95% of aircraft mechanics. TONS of questions on bug beaters, very very few on jets/choppers, which are now a big part of it.

Learning how to patch plastic windows? Who cares? Again, rarely rarely done. We're on pressurized aircraft, so it's not done at all. If it's scratched beyond limits, you call the window people in to polish 95% of the time.

Learn how to build hydraulic hoses? Not even allowed in my shop.

Learn to taxi a 172? Great, that's like driving a golf cart, I have to taxi $25 million jets every day.

The little turbine stuff on the test, is outdated technology. Unless you're working on turbojets, much of it doesn't apply.

Very little focus on Avionics items for the A&P side of things, when in reality, it's becoming a very blurred line in modern aircraft. Avionics and mechanical systems are one and the same, or tied together quite often. You need a good understanding of both.

Modern hydraulic flight controls? Yeah, they don't talk about that.

A&P school is in large part, doing nothing but learning to take the test, because a large part of it is irrelevant to 95% of the industry, as it's based on decades ago.

You're more qualified to work on a Sopwith Camel than a jet when you're done.

 

[autoace]

Since we're on the topic of certifications, as an advanced DIYer I'm noticing the new trend in auto manufacturers to use more and more proprietary technology. Take for e.g. OBDII, it's be mandated since 1996 or so and all cars have it but just because you have a OBDII compliant scanner doesn't mean you have access to all the information in the black box. In fact, a lot of newer cars can only be properly diagnosed using that brand's supplied equipment and tools. So no matter your generic certification level with so much manufacturer specific stuff to know about these days how do those help. It's frustrating for the DIYer and I bet it's even more frustrating for the independent car repair facilities? With more advanced cars e.g. hybrid and flex-fuel now becoming more mainstream how will the independent repair shops keep up with the changing technology?

Shop owners, like myself,multi-brand,independant,must invest tons of money on scanners, most of the time data stream, waveforms, and signal voltages from various sensors are more valuable than actual code; which, rarely tell you the problem, they are symptom flags alot of the time. Then the real techs come into play; that, know each system, the possible causes and order and procedures to do them. Now CAN(control area network) has been implimented because there are several ECU's that communicate with each other, so standards were also set for this across makes. I just finished my Hybrid lessons, a DIY guy could electrocute himself on a hybrid if he is not careful, just another machine once learned. As I said before, one has no idea how much knowledge a modern tech needs, my future is looking bright, many shops send me work; because, they "don't work on that" theory. Fine by me, maybe they will finally have to goto college or find another career.

 

[billymade]

autoace, do you use vagcom or a genuine vag 1552? I have found vagcom to be a great and reasonably priced tool! http://www.ross-tech.com/

 

[autoace]

autoace, do you use vagcom or a genuine vag 1552? I have found vagcom to be a great and reasonably priced tool! http://www.ross-tech.com/

I actually use a tech2 for GM and SAAB, OTC master Genesis for alot, Launch 431,OTC scope,AST older OBD1/2 scanner and the most important, my brain,MOST problems can be solved with datastream,common sense,and keep it simple before you overthink it "procedures",lots of reference manuals,old fashioned like that,great for specs.

 

[Flash21]

...many years ago, I changed careers from a mechanical/electrical engineer to an auto technician.

Hey autoace - This peaked my curiosity becasue I'm an EE. I work in the Aerospace field (Avionics) on RF surveillance systems. nissancrawler surely works on the equipment that my company provides.

Did you get your BS and they become an auto technician? You seem like a sharp guy, I would like to hear more about what drove the career change.

 

[billymade]

I'm curios, too! Did you find EE too much of a "desk job" and you are more of a "hands on" type of guy; I know of people who got engineering degrees and didn't like the field or being stuck in a office environment. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Vinko]

stuey, paramudduck your both right......paper doesn't mean everything. i guess i'm just tired of having people bring cars to me AFTER they paid joe hackjob to work on it. then i have to fix what they screwed up before i begin to properly diagnose and repair the original problem. i have had two vans in the last week come to me after they paid the shop down the road to work on them, one was told he needed headgaskets and the other a trans overhaul. BOTH were fixed with a tune up. if you don't know what a missfire feels like you should find another line of work!

I think you're right that certification can help the public.

It might be worth noting too that in France and Germany, the requirements to be a mechanic are pretty stringent, from what I understand.

When, by the way, did car mechanics start being called automotive technicians?

 

[eschoendorff]

Putting an end to parts replacers is why I brought up the workshop manual. Most automakers seem to provide all the diagnostic procedures necessary in the workshop manual. By reading the manual, you can generally determine what you need to do to diagnose a problem even if you don't have a lot of fancy equipment. A good tech who can follow written instructions can do a lot, even if they don't have access to some of the specialized testing equipment that makes life so much easier.

This is the impetus behind my Alldata/Mitchell thread a while ago. I think I'm gonna try Alldata...

I have qualifications, but not for the automotive or industrial fields,

I am very qualified in music and teaching... and I've been thinking about what it might be like to be an instructor in the corporate or industrial fields...

 

[Vinko]

From my experience, most medical licenses are worthless, also.

Law and med degrees and licenses (in some (many?) states, as far as I know you used to not have to have a law or med degree to apply for a license. Just pass the exams).

The earlier dig about PhD's not having "real world" experience missed the point I thought. Because the point of theoretical research is just that. If your studying certain types of biology, you're not "practicing" in the real world. That's for the "lower" medical degrees

admission: I have a PhD though I'm in a completely different "field" now.

 

[Elroy]

Well you know what they say

BS = Bull ****

MS = More ****

and a

PHD = Piled High and Deep

 

[Vinko]

Well you know what they say

BS = Bull ****

MS = More ****

and a

PHD = Piled High and Deep

Though Elroy is probably more right than he knows, Vinko thinks Elroy should read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0394703170/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[vc-onthepc]

well i dont think the paper qualifications mean much its the mechanics job to know his limitations and not lead on the customer or in this case someone asking for advice down the wrong path . ive built several race cars / worked on class a and class b trucks and equipment for 15 years .my neighbors know im a mechanic BUT when they ask can i fix thier everyday to and from work cars i say no. if they drove a peterbuilt ,kenworth ,international ,dump, tractor,crane,bulldozer,you get the point id be happy to oblige but i truly dont know much about modern cars and dont want to get in over my head . ive been ase certified in heavy trucks before but my current good government job in the transit bus industry does not require i have them . so why bother ? DOES THIS MAKE ME ANY LESS QUAILIFIED TO ANSWER SOMEONES QUESTION .... no it doesnt . mho

 

[caper]

Being a tech who has alot of "paper" to hang on the wall,I too realize that for some its not worth the paper its written on.I've worked with guys with all kinds of certifications who were completely useless with a wrench and with guys who could do amazing things but had no papers.The major difference was that even the dummies with certs were making more money than the guys without.I spent all the time taking courses and getting certs because that was how to get to the money.Spend most of your career working outside in the woods on forestry equipment in the winter up here and your body starts to realize it likes studying more than laying in a snowbank taking the aux box of an eaton trans.Thats why I have so many certs and now I have one of the highest paying mechanic jobs in the province,work indoors,at my own pace with nobody asking when I'll be done.Having those certs got me the interveiw,being able to back them up with my skills got me the job.

 

[autoace]

Hey autoace - This peaked my curiosity becasue I'm an EE. I work in the Aerospace field (Avionics) on RF surveillance systems. nissancrawler surely works on the equipment that my company provides.

Did you get your BS and they become an auto technician? You seem like a sharp guy, I would like to hear more about what drove the career change.

I went to WPI(Worcester poly tech)at night for many years,BS equivalent without the electives. Anyhow many companies I worked for closed,i.e.Digital Equipment,divisions of GTE telecommunications etc.

1)being tired of unstable companies 2)after a long day of desktop AutoCad,or HPVE software, and dealing with company "politics", I would come home, kick of the dress shirt and wing tip shoes and go work on my Monte Carlo SS bracket car, to unwind.

One day I told off one of the bean counters at a failing R&D company; that, was blaming quality, but was purchasing poor stock for our isolate silicone epitaxy "process". I told the guy to **** off and left a nice two streak burnout through the parking lot, with my Camaro,daily driver at the time, and swore I would never go back to the obtuse people I had to deal with.

I always loved cars, and tools. I refused to live my life for a pay check and decided to make what I love my profession. I am formally trained through UTI, various auto career schools and hands on, that was a long time ago now.

I never turned back, I love what I do, my former educations SEEMS to put me way over the top of most technicians in the field, but I am always learning, you know, once you think you know it all, you don't know jack. So I'm always evolving and embrace new automotive technology. I only wish I had done it sooner, until my breaking point I always tried to subdue my impetuous nature, when I was younger.

Lesson, If money was no object, what would you do for a living? then do it. I did not like working for dealerships etc...The flat rate system is not condusive to ultimate quality, nor will the dealer pay for outstanding quality, as of yet anyway. I work for myself and have been sucessful so far. However the economy is affecting my qrowth money right now, so I have to make do with the facility that I have for now.

 

[autoace]

I'm curios, too! Did you find EE too much of a "desk job" and you are more of a "hands on" type of guy; I know of people who got engineering degrees and didn't like the field or being stuck in a office environment. Inquiring minds want to know!

See above Billymade, thanks for asking, now we have to see what the heck Merkava is

 

[amishman]

Alot of posts I read, I think the guy stares in his toolbox and engine compartment with this look on his face

I stare all the time. In confusion, disbelief, wonderment, you name it.

I am just proud that I am learning as I go and doing my own work as best as I can. Sure makes me happy when I complete something I never did before.

tj

 

[paramudduck]

Nissan a LOT of tests are like that. Two of the worst I've taken were the Nursing boards and the Paramedic exams. NO right answers in modern medicine they were based on the theory out five years ago.

Ace don't you love the which is the least wrong school of test answers? Or when they give you a scenario that is a physical impossibility?

Also what is up with these people who ruin a 60 million dollar project by buying substandard materials and then have the audacity to berate any one else.

 

[autoace]

I stare all the time. In confusion, disbelief, wonderment, you name it.

I am just proud that I am learning as I go and doing my own work as best as I can. Sure makes me happy when I complete something I never did before.

tj

That look on your face will diminish with time. Get manuals for whatever you are working on, don't cut corners, and don't attempt something without the proper tools, and use common sense, so you don't injure yourself and have fun.

 

[speed bump]

I have an ASE refrigerent recovery and recycling certificate on my wall. Honestly it was worth more to my employer for me to have the certificate than it was for anything else. The certificate I wanted but they never did let me take before they laid me off was the EPA safe refrigerant handling Certs. That is worth something to me becuase it allows you to purchase and service certain types of refrigerents.

As far as non automotive certs go I have my Red Cross Lifeguard, lifeguard instructor and a hand full of others that came along the way. I have over time used the **** out of these certs. Certs that I needed that I have found to be useless are the FEMA ICS certs, I have 15 or 20 of the ICS coures down and have came to the conclusion that after the first three courses (ICS 100 200 and 800) the rest is mostly BS that you were written by morons.

Next semester is FE time, which will probably alternate somewhere between most useful and least useful cert.

autoace, I know how you feel about desk jobs, thats why I managed to line up a feild engineering position so I spend 90% of the time working in the field.

 

[paramudduck]

I get the manual and look at it. Then two thoughts immediately come to mind.
1. Did the guy who wrote this even look at the vehicle?
2. Did they prototype this monstrosity before they put it in production?

 

[Kona Cruisers]

I-car certs I would say are worth it (auto body stuff) IE their welding test. multi pos. test. I wouldnt want someone who wasn't certified welding in a structual support on a collision repair.

I car test are all pratical cept for haz mat. Pratical is way better the book test IMO..
How ever I do have ASE B2 B3 B4 B5...

 

[rcleaver]

I'be been watching a trend in the computer industry (maybe others too) of hiring people temporarily for a project and converting them to permanent status if all goes well.

The cert will get you in the door, your work will keep you there. Seems like a very practical approach to me.

Two other points:

1) I believe there is a spectrum between extreme thinkers and extreme doers. A lot of people fall along the spectrum somewhere. But not all. That's what confuses people. I think most people have some of both. That's why doers believe thinkers don't have any common sense -- they can't do much of anything. That's why thinkers wonder why anyone would want to be a doer.

2) People mature at different rates, and motivation plays a big part. If you're not interested in a job (that you took because it pays well, for example) you may not do it well unless your prime motivation is money.

 

[STClurker]

all this talk of certs reminds me of a joke: what do you call the guy that graduated last in his medical school class?







Doctor

seriously though I had two years of tech school for heavy diesels and went right to work at a dealer (didn't work out), a couple other mechanicing jobs and realized two things. A: I'm great on the theroy of how things are supposed to work but I'm pretty slow (as far as physically doing it) when it comes to real life. and B: I don't like wrenching for a living, I drive a tow truck now (and having some mechanical know how goes a long way some days) and I truely enjoy my job.

just my 2c