Mechanic vs Technician
- Thread starter Shipfittin
- Start date
shampoop
Well-known member
So you're saying a technician is actually just a lowly apprentice? That makes sense
it would make sense if this were a sarcastic joke............. but it's not very funny?
MattPersman
Well-known member
where I am at it depends on the client. there are $10k homes up to 10 million. farmers, construction business, etc. to the farmer or construction worker or the $10k home owner we are mechanics. to the younger tech minded crowd with minivans, nicer cars, iphones, nice clothes we are typically technicians. they would rather have a technician fix their car than some "mechanic" that screwed over them and all there friends in the past selling them things they didn't really need.
it's all based on your money paying clients. but then again you can go to about any shop and find some guy that has been in this business for 10-20-30 years that can't keep up with the times and you wonder how they made it this far. what are they? fooling themselves
it's all based on your money paying clients. but then again you can go to about any shop and find some guy that has been in this business for 10-20-30 years that can't keep up with the times and you wonder how they made it this far. what are they? fooling themselves
a "METECHNIC"!
me, i am an "electronics technician" by trade. no, i don't easter egg either. i can troubleshoot to component level.
by today's definitions, and by my experience, even "engineer" is an overated term since the majority i've met with the degrees that still have wet ink freak out when you yell: "43,000 OHMS!!!".
when i was in the navy, my evals always had some remark to the effect of:
"technician of choice" and "expert in his field", (both of those are verbatim).
now a days, loose is all they are.
my daughter works for subway, she is a "sandwich artist". seriously. i love her, but is every sandwich she makes, per the customers request, a work of art?
no.
but applying the title, "artist", "technician", "mechanic", or whatever, in this day and age is nothing more than giving 2nd place and lower the same trophy.
how many people do you know that run a forum online and call themselves a "webmaster", yet have no clue about actual programming?
diesel research
Well-known member
You can really tell who has NOT used automotive diagnostic tools to any extent.
The uninclined would believe some mythical machine exists that just spits out all the answers, like a magic8ball.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O8Pif5hPGdc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
While the above 8 ball does exist in real life, and really can be purchased for $19.95, there is no such thing as a machine that can provide accurate repeatable results as you describe.
Such a machine simply doesn't exist, /end of story.
I have gave several examples in the past on this forum.
I set up a "simulation" where I provide the specific codes and forum members are to tell me which part needs to be replaced. Even after 3 or 4 pages, not a single correct answer. This was with several professionals playing along too! Why? As stated before, codes are not capable of isolating a specific part.
An EXPERIENCED individual may begin to use pattern diagnosis when a specific code appears on a specific make/model, and can have some level of success. BUT the machine did NOT tell them which part to replace.
I also mention another example on tractor/trailer air brake ABS. On board diagnostics are capable of giving me basic codes such as "left front wheel speed sensor" and can go so far as to say "ac voltage out of range" or "open circuit". Neither way does it tell me which part needs to be replaced. Most often, I do not replace anything. Experience tells me airgap fluctuations result in skewed ac voltage and to check wheel bearing end play or tone ring wear (hardly ever). No "machine" told me to adjust the wheel bearings, I just know that specific type of unit has several wheel/hub separations each year and I can use the ABS to prevent 800lbs+ of duals/drum/hub from flying off down the highway and killing some family.
Geez, I always liked the term "Grease Monkey".I would classify myself as a mechanic. I never received the proper training to become a "technician"
When MOS's are listed with numbers after them, they are not to specify a type of maintenance. A 63B20 is a sergeant E5 with training in wheeled vehicles (light wheel before, now all wheel)
While "20" does mean unit level, it is not the same 20 as on the end of a MOS. I was 30/40 DS/GS in a previous time. The end number on my MOS was 10 to signify lower enlisted. An "H8" was added to the end, which stood for "recovery vehicle operator" aka tow truck.
kc-steve
Well-known member
Over my previous 30-years working for others, I've found that employers tend to use job titles as a way to limit your pay scale and limit your future attempts to change jobs. . .
Back in the 1970s I worked as an electronics technician with an associates degree. Then worked in the engineering department as an engineering technician. While there, a brilliant guy from Thailand with a Thai engineering degree was only allowed the title of "associate engineer" and not a full-engineer they said because his degree was in a foreign country. But he was one of the best engineers they had. Since he accepted his position his employer kept him there.
Later, I found myself in a similar situation with a job title of biomed technician and there were others in a different department with a title of biomed engineer. Their "engineer" title implies they designed stuff but they did no more than I, repairing hospital medical equipment. My supervisor didn't think I deserved the pay scale of the higher title. However, I could easily run circles around their knowledge yet they were paid 50-percent more than I. It wasn't long after that I became self-employed.
I could provide many more examples over the years, but it really boils down to whether your employer is willing to move you into higher pay scales of the specific job title. They are betting you will accept the lower position and pay scale usually, and happy to stay in that position. If you check the U.S. Dept of Labor you will see pay scales for job titles in specific areas of the country, and this I think is why (stupid) employers keep people at low pay in specific job titles. http://www.dol.gov/
Steve
Back in the 1970s I worked as an electronics technician with an associates degree. Then worked in the engineering department as an engineering technician. While there, a brilliant guy from Thailand with a Thai engineering degree was only allowed the title of "associate engineer" and not a full-engineer they said because his degree was in a foreign country. But he was one of the best engineers they had. Since he accepted his position his employer kept him there.
Later, I found myself in a similar situation with a job title of biomed technician and there were others in a different department with a title of biomed engineer. Their "engineer" title implies they designed stuff but they did no more than I, repairing hospital medical equipment. My supervisor didn't think I deserved the pay scale of the higher title. However, I could easily run circles around their knowledge yet they were paid 50-percent more than I. It wasn't long after that I became self-employed.
I could provide many more examples over the years, but it really boils down to whether your employer is willing to move you into higher pay scales of the specific job title. They are betting you will accept the lower position and pay scale usually, and happy to stay in that position. If you check the U.S. Dept of Labor you will see pay scales for job titles in specific areas of the country, and this I think is why (stupid) employers keep people at low pay in specific job titles. http://www.dol.gov/
Steve
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Alchymist
Well-known member
During that same time frame, New York had some strict rules as to who could use the title "engineer". IBM got around that by using "Systems Analyst" for engineering positions. Paid accordingly, and I found a "Systems Analyst", at least in my case, could design circles around some "Senior Engineers".
I was in the Auto Repair Industry from 1975-1995 and witnessed implimentation of the "Technician" term.
The joke was...............
What's the difference between a Mechanic and a Technician?
A Technician washes his hands, before he goes home.
The joke was...............
What's the difference between a Mechanic and a Technician?
A Technician washes his hands, before he goes home.
ibedayank
Well-known member
Yeah, a computer diagnosed the problem & told him what part to change...
being most of what I work on has NO computers....
That fancy scanner would be a paper weight
Knuckle Buster
Well-known member
I know a gentlemen that has a ase sticker on his shop window but he used to bring automatic transmissions to me for rebuild. I never went to tech school.
ibedayank
Well-known member
watching the rebuild videos are better than some so called tech schools anyday
poprockcrusher
Banned
Yeah .........useless
poprockcrusher
Banned
Who makes this magic computer and where do I get one ?Yeah, a computer diagnosed the problem & told him what part to change...
Outlawmws
Well-known member
You would be wrong, and you completely missed my point.
EVERY time I've taken my newer cars to a dealership, and I can tall them EXACTLY what the issue is, it's always a patronizing "We have to wait to hook it up to the computer and do the diagnostics and you can come back tonight/tomorrow to pick it up" and at the end of the day, it's a **** shoot if they actually fixed what was wrong.
An OBD tool or a computerized alignment tool, or what have you can be useful, but when you stop using your brain and rely on the computer to do your thinking for you, or simply don't know how to use the data to accessorize your own observations, it's a farce.
I've actually sent my Mom in with her car to get a drivers side CV joint replaced, and the idiot LOOKED AT THE ODOMETER AND SAID "THAT CAN'T BE THE PROBLEM, THE MILEAGE IS TOO LOW"...
I got him on the phone and made him get actually get under the car and grab the half shaft, and wiggle it. He came back and said they would replace it right away.
It is a mind set, and an inability to listen and observe the vehicle, and what it is doing. A true mechanic uses his brain far more than people may want to realize. Sure, once the problem has been figured out, it's often a lot of grunt work, but first you have to think your way through it and that is a fairly rare commodity.
I cannot tell you how many times I've discussed a problem someone was having with a car, computer or what have you, in person, over the phone, and on line, and accurately walked them through the symptoms, and got them on track for a repair. It's a thinking mans game, and either you have the aptitude for it or you don't.
I don't blame the person if they don't have that ability, after all I'm terrible at foreign language, music and art, but the "crank out a tech" diploma mills don't appear to me to be helping the situation.
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
We call those "Isolated cases".
You're so good at diag, here's one for you. I had a 2007 Audi A3 1.9TDI in with an engine warning light on, no symptoms what so ever. Drove fine, revved up fine, no weird noises, no running problem, lack of power, lack of torque, lack of responsiveness, etc. For all intents and purposes, it was running perfectly.
The light wasn't a glitch, so what was it? You're so good that you can diagnose a car without the need for diag machines and diag time, tell me what was the problem with it.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
We call those "Isolated cases".
You're so good at diag, here's one for you. I had a 2007 Audi A3 1.9TDI in with an engine warning light on, no symptoms what so ever. Drove fine, revved up fine, no weird noises, no running problem, lack of power, lack of torque, lack of responsiveness, etc. For all intents and purposes, it was running perfectly.
The light wasn't a glitch, so what was it? You're so good that you can diagnose a car without the need for diag machines and diag time, tell me what was the problem with it.
Now you sound like the person that brings a car in and says "It's broke, fix it."
Nor did I say to ignore the machines, in fact I specifically said you use that as part of the data. But you don't put your brain in park and let the machine do it for you.
Trouble shooting and diagnostics are based on DATA I'm good at interpreting data, I didn't way I was psychic.
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Alchymist
Well-known member
Many of the newer cars can throw codes when they appear to be operating correctly. A lot of the time the computer through the sensors detect a small problem that might be on it's way to becoming a big one.
The check engine light and the resulting codes point to a specific area of the engine, not an exact diagnosis. There are a number of parts and adjustments in each subsystem that can cause identical codes. You have to look at the codes as street signs pointing you in a certain direction.
Code accuracy is only as good as the programming .....
richfinn
Well-known member
It seems to have turned into an argument about scan tools, anyone can potentially use a scan tool to pull a DTC/look at live data/actuate components. The trick is to learn how to test things that dont work using wiring diagrams, knowledge and a meter/scope/vac gauge etc.
All stuff I was taught during my apprenticeship as a Motor Mechanic.
All stuff I was taught during my apprenticeship as a Motor Mechanic.
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
No, i'm the person that fixes the cars that are brought in.
Trouble shooting and diagnostics are based on DATA I'm good at interpreting data, I didn't way I was psychic.
Yeah, you're not that good after all. So much for being able to diagnose a fault from the off without any diagnosis work or equipment.
Oh, you don't say?
Like a fault, maybe?
You missed the point of my post entirely. Outlaw reckons he's always been able to diagnose a car from the off, which i think is nonsense. Either he's never had much in the way of car trouble and has little experience with cars in general or he's lying.
You're going outside reasonable limits now.
Steve from Socal
Well-known member
We call those "Isolated cases".
You're so good at diag, here's one for you. I had a 2007 Audi A3 1.9TDI in with an engine warning light on, no symptoms what so ever. Drove fine, revved up fine, no weird noises, no running problem, lack of power, lack of torque, lack of responsiveness, etc. For all intents and purposes, it was running perfectly.
The light wasn't a glitch, so what was it? You're so good that you can diagnose a car without the need for diag machines and diag time, tell me what was the problem with it.
I am not the person you mention however; the symptoms sound like a loose fuel cap or perhaps low voltage on the battery?
Steve
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
There were no symptoms.
There are thousands of possibilities. The point i was making is that proper diagnosis is essential in any repair. You know as well as i do, having a lot of experience in this industry and in main dealers.
If a customer comes to me and specifically says they want their driveshafts replaced and authorises the repair, i will replace them. However, if they come to me and make me aware of a symptom and says "I think it's the driveshafts" i'm not going to throw a pair of 'shafts on it on that basis, and i will check it and make my own diagnosis.
You can't go to a dealer and expect them to replace something because you say what the problem part is, they (like anyone else who wants to do the job properly) must diagnose the fault themselves to make a correct repair and fix the problem.
Best believe if i was working at a dealer (like i am at the moment) and a car came to me with a suspected driveshaft issue i ain't going to get on my hands and knees out in the car park and shake the shaft to check it, the car has to come in for proper diagnosis.
Alchymist
Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchymist
Many of the newer cars can throw codes when they appear to be operating correctly.
Oh, you don't say?
Sarcasm becomes you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchymist
A lot of the time the computer through the sensors detect a small problem that might be on it's way to becoming a big one.
Like a fault, maybe?
Is not a fault a problem ? Semantics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchymist
The check engine light and the resulting codes point to a specific area of the engine, not an exact diagnosis. There are a number of parts and adjustments in each subsystem that can cause identical codes. You have to look at the codes as street signs pointing you in a certain direction.
You missed the point of my post entirely. Outlaw reckons he's always been able to diagnose a car from the off, which i think is nonsense. Either he's never had much in the way of car trouble and has little experience with cars in general or he's lying.
Perhaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchymist
Code accuracy is only as good as the programming .....
You're going outside reasonable limits now.
Perhaps not……Perhaps read the whole post in context?
__________________
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////Outlawmws
Well-known member
Yeah your right, I'm just a dumb *** troll posting opinions based on little to no knowledge about cars or things mechanical. Won't all the race car owners and drivers I pit crewed for and crew chiefed for over 15 years be surprised to hear that! Not to mention that I built a number of those cars from the ground up , and OMG, All those 4X4 rigs I worked on and in some cases converted from 2 WD to 4 WD, Some of those are still on the streets! Horrors! Call the State police! They MUST be stopped!
Maybe you need to read what I have written more carefully, before you start calling me a liar.
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
I'm a sarcastic person, yes. What i was saying was that there was a fault (as made apparent by the warning light) but no apparent symptoms, hence the need for diagnosis and the use of a diagnostic machine.
A small problem that may develop into a big problem is still a fault. Severity is not important, prescence is. Like a failed EGR valve that's always closed, it's better for the engine that way, won't cause running problems (in most cases) but is still a fault.
It wasn't a fault in the programming, it was a fault in a component. Again, missing the point of my post, which was to point out that someone telling a customer they need to diagnose the fault properly is the right way to go about a repair, instead of going out into the car park, getting on your hands and knees and grabbing on a drivetrain component to determine it's shot.
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
And maybe you should get an understanding for the routine that is the norm in the industry for diagnosis, which is to get the car into the workshop and diagnose the fault, instead of jumping to conclusions based on anything from common faults to guess work. Just because you know, or think you know, what the problem is doesn't mean the dealer should take your word for it. Especially when the car is covered under warranty.
Anyway, i can't be bothered to argue with you anymore. Call it differening opinions, stances, whatever.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Your saying you need more diagnostics than 1/2" or more of slop in a CV joint to realize it needs replaced? What, are you also going to check the odometer? 
EDIT: Your right, just a difference of opinion.
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Steve from Socal
Well-known member
There were no symptoms.
There are thousands of possibilities. The point i was making is that proper diagnosis is essential in any repair. You know as well as i do, having a lot of experience in this industry and in main dealers.
If a customer comes to me and specifically says they want their driveshafts replaced and authorises the repair, i will replace them. However, if they come to me and make me aware of a symptom and says "I think it's the driveshafts" i'm not going to throw a pair of 'shafts on it on that basis, and i will check it and make my own diagnosis.
You can't go to a dealer and expect them to replace something because you say what the problem part is, they (like anyone else who wants to do the job properly) must diagnose the fault themselves to make a correct repair and fix the problem.
Best believe if i was working at a dealer (like i am at the moment) and a car came to me with a suspected driveshaft issue i ain't going to get on my hands and knees out in the car park and shake the shaft to check it, the car has to come in for proper diagnosis.
Moose,
There are symptoms; the MIL is on and there are no fault codes. That points to things that are not coded but are monitored by the system.
I do agree that any shop should perform a diagnosis of a complaint regardless of how overt it may seem. From unseen damage to completely unrelated failures, even a correct diagnosis may not be the whole picture.
In fact when I write up a car I never put down a fault; I say check and advise car is doing this!
Steve
Steve from Socal
Well-known member
EDIT: Your right, just a difference of opinion.
Nope,
I would never write a car up with a direct diagnosis from a customer. I don't care if you were exactly right. The reason is; because what happens when I commit to doing the repair just as you ask it may not be all that is wrong. Has the part that failed caused other damage that is not apparent. Even on a repair as seeming simple as a flat tire, the rim could be bent, the flange could be rusted Etc.
You as a customer want to diagnose your car and bring it to shop for a repair, I frankly can't think of a shop that would work on your car in that situation.
Steve
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Some how I don't thing we are communicating. If a customer came in and tossed you the keys and said ""Something is wrong fix it" I'm reasonably sure you would be asking for more info than that. My point about the CV joint job was that the mechanic looked at the odometer and concluded it couldn't possibly be worn out. Nothing wrong here!
My point is that good mechanics (or techs) don't ignore any information when being told about it. I don't expect you to write up a ticket based on that info alone, but it should give you a starting point and you should not patronize the customer. If the customer says there is a clunk in the front end you wouldn't start looking at the rear end first. If you are blowing them off, then I certainly wouldn't want to use your shop for my vehicles.
My point is that good mechanics (or techs) don't ignore any information when being told about it. I don't expect you to write up a ticket based on that info alone, but it should give you a starting point and you should not patronize the customer. If the customer says there is a clunk in the front end you wouldn't start looking at the rear end first. If you are blowing them off, then I certainly wouldn't want to use your shop for my vehicles.
znowaczyk
Banned
Also, what if what they wanted fixed was caused by something else? You want me to replace your tires because they are wearing funny. Never said you wanted to know why they are wearing funny. But be damned sure I am going to check why anyway.
I once had to argue with a customer for 45 minutes because he came in because his brakes were squeaking. Well, the lower hose had a pin hole in it, spraying on the rotor, creating the squeak. Flipped out because he knew it just needed brakes. I said your right, they are now contaminated and need replaced, along with the hose. But he swore there was nothing wrong with the hose. just fix the brakes he says. This is why, as a pro, I only want a complaint, not a diagnosis!
Wakefield
Well-known member
Too many places around here,too busy customer and mechanic. Car is dropped off at night with keys put in deposit box after a quick phone call.
Much better if customer brings car in during working hours,talks to someone about what they want and/or what complaint they have about what the car is doing.
Even better if the mechanic who is going to either be in charge or actually working on the car does the writeup and talks to the customer. Probably more chance of this at a small shop unless you (customer) know the owner/dealer. Worth it driving 70 miles sometimes to the dealership you know the owner of.
Much better if customer brings car in during working hours,talks to someone about what they want and/or what complaint they have about what the car is doing.
Even better if the mechanic who is going to either be in charge or actually working on the car does the writeup and talks to the customer. Probably more chance of this at a small shop unless you (customer) know the owner/dealer. Worth it driving 70 miles sometimes to the dealership you know the owner of.
Knuckle Buster
Well-known member
I had a guy that dropped a car off with a note on the seat that said, '' Check my engine out Dave, it has oil in it but when I give it gas it has a rod knocking ''.
I checked the oil first, then started it up. Sounded great, I let it run a good half hour and oil pressure held steady at 40 psi at idle. I revved it about 4k twice and it was silent. So, I went on and test drove it on 'smooth' pavement and the thing ran out nicely, nary a sound.
Guy picks it up, but the next day he drops it off again, same thing... engine has a rod knocking but this time he says it only knocks for a few seconds at hwy speed and goes away... says it happens about the same time every day soon as he's topping the hill under a load and it goes away. I knew darn well the engine was sound as could be so thought to myself '' the guy is crazy.. why me ''.
So I drove it again, but in the other direction and crossed a bridge. Sure enough, I heard something raising hell .. and knew what it was the second I heard it, and it shut up soon as it hit smooth pavement again.
What was it? A missing lower shock absorber bushing on the left front. LOL, he was driving over a bad spot on hwy 70 every morning and he never made the connection. LOL.
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bgott
Well-known member
It's an Audi. When the light comes on it means that the car is past it's expiration date. Junk it and buy a new one. How did I do?
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Wow, 8 pages and there's still lots of hate for technicians.
The interesting question here is what do customers refer to it as? Titles are practically meaningless at times.
The title of a garbage man (or woman) may well be "sanitation engineer," but nobody calls them that.
I'm pretty sure that tow truck drivers aren't referred to as vehicle recovery technicians by lay people.
I have a mechanic fix my car. I've never heard automotive technician used in reference to getting a car fixed in normal conversation.
The title of a garbage man (or woman) may well be "sanitation engineer," but nobody calls them that.
I'm pretty sure that tow truck drivers aren't referred to as vehicle recovery technicians by lay people.
I have a mechanic fix my car. I've never heard automotive technician used in reference to getting a car fixed in normal conversation.
AZ_Catskinner
Well-known member
Here's a recent one that happened to a friend of mine.
The car: 2009 Dodge Charger
The symptom: Oil pressure gauge dropped to zero while driving home from work
The diagnosis: Bad oil pump
The repair(s):
1) Towed to dealership, computer showed 0 oil pressure. Oil pump changed
2) Dumped oil pressure less than a block from dealership - Oil pump changed again
3) Dumped oil pressure 2 blocks from dealership - changed ENGINE
4) Dumped oil pressure 5-6 miles from dealership - tow truck driver checked wires on sending unit and gauge panel. Found loose wire in plug on harness, fixed wire, never has dumped oil pressure again.
I'm not picking on anyone, but it does seem that diagnostics are fast becoming a lost art. It's become too easy to rely on the computer, but what happens when the computer is getting bad information? It seems to me that a GOOD mechanic/technician/whatever has to be a mix of the modern ASE guy and the old school unrefined "grease monkey".
The car: 2009 Dodge Charger
The symptom: Oil pressure gauge dropped to zero while driving home from work
The diagnosis: Bad oil pump
The repair(s):
1) Towed to dealership, computer showed 0 oil pressure. Oil pump changed
2) Dumped oil pressure less than a block from dealership - Oil pump changed again
3) Dumped oil pressure 2 blocks from dealership - changed ENGINE
4) Dumped oil pressure 5-6 miles from dealership - tow truck driver checked wires on sending unit and gauge panel. Found loose wire in plug on harness, fixed wire, never has dumped oil pressure again.
I'm not picking on anyone, but it does seem that diagnostics are fast becoming a lost art. It's become too easy to rely on the computer, but what happens when the computer is getting bad information? It seems to me that a GOOD mechanic/technician/whatever has to be a mix of the modern ASE guy and the old school unrefined "grease monkey".
Blackbomber
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 88
For me, the term Mechanic gets respect. Technician is too vague - it can mean anything.
I agree with many of the previous comments re; technician being more adept with computerized diagnostics, etc BUT - back in the day, I went through a 4 year apprenticeship program under the International Harvester / Teamsters program and worked the bottom side, dirty side, hoy side, and heavy end of a boatload of trucks JUST FOR THE RIGHT TO BE CALLED A JOURNEYMAN MECHANIC. I've since been titled many of the other titles mentioned herein, but the one that I take the most pride in and the one I use when asked is MECHANIC. To me, it says it all...if it's broke, leaking, wore out, won't run, or is otherwise misbehaving, a mechanic can fix it (or screw it up so badly that NO ONE else can)!
Heavy Metal Doctor
Well-known member
Agreed - Is see shop guys - whatever you like to call 'em - miss the simple stuff way too often.
Here's this weeks examples I dealt with:
One customer had his shop look at his machine and they swore the industrial engine that powers the equipment was leaking oil and had to be "blown up" because it shut off --- They send it to me expecting to get an new engine. I check it out and find the oil filter came loose and the ECU / safety shutdown shut it off as soon as oil pressure fluctuated - it took longer to clean up the oil than it did to fix it.....
Another customer had a rough running engine and pulled all the injector pumps - when they didn't find anything, so they put the injectors back in. They called me and said "We've got major problems" explained how they checked this and that and said "what do we do" Since they seemed so sure all the simple stuff was covered, I recommend the appropriate engine specialist take a look. My engine guy called me up and told me the fuel pickup tube was cracked in the tank - drawing air above the surface of the liquid. Once he ran it off a set of hoses in a bucket diesel it started right up ---only then it went to warp factor 9 and he had to choke out the air to shut it down 'cause. He checked the fuel solonoid / rack and found they didn't pull out the solenoid when they had the injectors out -this essentially permanently set it at max throttle when they put the injectors back in...they where lucky nothing was damaged.
This morning - customer brought me a machine that has had interference between the truck lighting and the electricly controlled hydraulics for the machine. They spent 2 or 3 day screwing around in thier shop. A few lighting circuits rewired through the truck chassis since they where "sure" the wire was crushed / shorted into the hydraulic circuits. The operator tells me all the trouble started right after a license plate light was replaced. He turns the thing on to show me the problem and the first thing I see is that ALL lights glow when he steps on the brakes. I disconnet the machine circuits to verify it's still the same and then add a good ground to one tailight housing - problem solved - reconnect the other stuff and it's done.....I bill 'em 1 1/2 hours......
There's more....but break time is over.....