To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Mechanical Diagnosis?

Wills.WindowsAndWheels

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
348
Location
Gilbert,Az
So im thinking about learning more about fixing up cars...and im not scared to try to fix anything, but just want to know the best way to go about actually diagnosing the problem...i know there are some gearheads on here so i was hoping for some advice on tools etc to help me get started with finding out the problem!

I of course realize there are 'check engine light' diagnosis machines and things like that, but what about when you just 'hear' something that doesn't sound right..or something isn't working (like my HEAT right now for example) but no check engine light is on...hwo do you go about diagnosing problems like that?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

dtt454

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
363
Location
missouri
every problem is different.

when i was in school, my teacher told us, that what you need to learn is how the systems work, then when it doesnt work you can make some intelligent tests to determine why.

if your only talking about one vehicle right now, go buy you a factory service manual. its a bit expensive, but it tells you how everything works on your car. and most likely even has troubleshooting guides for numerous problems.


for your example though, no heat, do you mean no airflow? or air flows from vents its just not warm. if its the first, then you have a blower problem, if its the second, you could have a problem with your heater valve, valve controls. i mean could be there is air trapped in your cooling system.......
 
OP
W

Wills.WindowsAndWheels

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
348
Location
Gilbert,Az
every problem is different.

when i was in school, my teacher told us, that what you need to learn is how the systems work, then when it doesnt work you can make some intelligent tests to determine why.

if your only talking about one vehicle right now, go buy you a factory service manual. its a bit expensive, but it tells you how everything works on your car. and most likely even has troubleshooting guides for numerous problems.


for your example though, no heat, do you mean no airflow? or air flows from vents its just not warm. if its the first, then you have a blower problem, if its the second, you could have a problem with your heater valve, valve controls. i mean could be there is air trapped in your cooling system.......

Sorry for not being specific...the air just isn't warm, it blows fine. Last year it would get warm while driving, but when i'd stop it would get cold. Was told it was because radiator was leaking and there wasn't enough coolant to circulate and fill the whole system (heater core especially) to consistently keep the air warm.

I replaced the radiator (this is a 96' taurus for the record) a few months back cause the thing finally blew lol...and has run cool since and is holding its fluid as it should so thats where that stands now.

I dont have time or money for mechanical school but if you could steer me towards maybe some online classes or programs or even just videos that kinda work from the ground up id really be appreciative. I have SOME idea of how things work but im kind of a stickler for detail...i like to know not just how something works but WHY and how it ties into the rest of the system. I guess its my touch of OCD but i always believe the MORE ways you learn about something the better chance you have of remembering it and relating it to other issues/problems/situations :)

Choose a mechanical problem and start doing research. The GJ and internet are your friends.:D

Lol yeah you're telling me man. I came to this forum from a post from somebody else on ANOTHER forum that i'm always on (autogeekonline.net)...ive got close to 2000 posts on there so...im always looking to learn something new since, as i said above...i dont have time or money for schooling...so im really self taught in most things or just read lots of opinions/ideas from members of places like GJ and just TRY some stuff out to see what works best for me..and then of course always try to share the story of what i did and how it worked out to hopefully help someone else :)
 
OP
W

Wills.WindowsAndWheels

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
348
Location
Gilbert,Az
does or did the coolant look like rust/ brown ****?

When i drained it when replacing the radiator is was clean...no rust/brown ****. Hell the old radiator wasn't but maybe 4 or 5 years old and was SUPPOSE to be new, but the assholes who put it in and charged for a 'new radiator' actually put in a junk yard one...i found THAT out after dropping it and seeing the junk yard writing on the lower left corner of it, but the way the Taurus is built, you can't SEE the radiator at all because its such a tight fit, so there was no way to tell...

I'm hoping its something simple like, the door that opens and closes for hot/cold air isnt working...just hope its not the core, done one of those before...NOT fun
 

Seanbev24

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
1,000
Location
Lynnwood, Wa
I would locate the blend door actuator and see if it's working. You should see the shaft that attaches to the blend door rotate when you switch from hot to cold. I just replaced one on an F150 today actually, but this one was stuck on hot.

Also, those cars have a lot of problems with clogged heater cores. You can disconnect the hoses and try to flush it out
 

dtt454

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
363
Location
missouri
i only asked because the taurus was really common to have rust in the cooling system, there was even a service letter from ford about it, and if that was the case, i would have suspected the core being plugged, now that still could be the problem.

im just going off memory which ive learned isnt a good idea, but if i recall, the factory design coolant from the rear bank always flows through the heater core.... all the time. and the revised design put some sort of bypass hose on there so it has another path it can take....

id say when its warmed up. put your hand on the heater hoses and feel them, see if they are good and warm where they go into/out of the firewall, and if not you can just feel the hose temperature going up the hose toward the engine. see if its warm coming out of the engine.
 
OP
W

Wills.WindowsAndWheels

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
348
Location
Gilbert,Az
I would locate the blend door actuator and see if it's working. You should see the shaft that attaches to the blend door rotate when you switch from hot to cold. I just replaced one on an F150 today actually, but this one was stuck on hot.

Also, those cars have a lot of problems with clogged heater cores. You can disconnect the hoses and try to flush it out

I hope its something like that...well...actually i should be careful what i wish for because i dont know how difficult it is to get to the blend door in this car lol. I just know how big of a PITA it was to remove the heater core in my friends car...but either way i just got some new tools and am anxious to try them out...and am also anxious to not have a cold *** all winter long :) Thanks for the tips guess its time to break out the manual and find out where that things located

i only asked because the taurus was really common to have rust in the cooling system, there was even a service letter from ford about it, and if that was the case, i would have suspected the core being plugged, now that still could be the problem.

im just going off memory which ive learned isnt a good idea, but if i recall, the factory design coolant from the rear bank always flows through the heater core.... all the time. and the revised design put some sort of bypass hose on there so it has another path it can take....

id say when its warmed up. put your hand on the heater hoses and feel them, see if they are good and warm where they go into/out of the firewall, and if not you can just feel the hose temperature going up the hose toward the engine. see if its warm coming out of the engine.

lol well i appreciate the feedback, bad memory or not :lol_hitti

What you say makes sense. Dont happen to remember the years that this problem existed do you? I honestly think the coolant was clear though when the radiator blew. A lot of it leaked out before i could get anything under it, but when i went under to drain the rest and pull the hoses i still got a good 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon of stuff (it only holds about 2 gallons of coolant full) and it LOOKED clear from what i could tell.

So if i feel the hoses and they ARE warm what would that tell me? If they aren't warm what would that tell me?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

KenC

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
2,604
Location
oklahoma
My mom had a '96 Taurus that had this symptom, as well as the temp rising and falling with engine speed.

Turned out to be the water pump impeller had no fins, just a flat plate spinning the the water, not pumpin' much at all. That was another symptom of the aforementioned rusty cooling system, they had just rotted off. Why Ford chose to use plain steel in that spot I don't know. Stainless or cast would have been a much better choice.

And, that pump is a bear (or some b word) to change!
 
OP
W

Wills.WindowsAndWheels

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
348
Location
Gilbert,Az
My mom had a '96 Taurus that had this symptom, as well as the temp rising and falling with engine speed.

Turned out to be the water pump impeller had no fins, just a flat plate spinning the the water, not pumpin' much at all. That was another symptom of the aforementioned rusty cooling system, they had just rotted off. Why Ford chose to use plain steel in that spot I don't know. Stainless or cast would have been a much better choice.

And, that pump is a bear (or some b word) to change!

Its always good news when talking about a taurus lol. I THINK (not for sure) that the water pump was replaced just a couple years ago before i got it (been in the family for about 10 years). I'll have to double check. I have a mechanic friend who has a shop and im sure i could get him to look at it and tell me whats what, but iw ouldn't mind trying to figure it out on my own first.
 

dtt454

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
363
Location
missouri
if your heater hoses are warm, then you are getting coolant flow. then you go to checking your blend door,

if your hoses are not warm, then for some reason your not getting flow. so then you chase that problem. which could be something like the water pump fins being gone, plugged core, plugged hose. most cars have a heater control valve but i dont think the taurus does, im not sure.

i dont remember the exact years, but it was the first few years of that generation of taurus. im confident yours would have been in there. if you put the words brown coolant + taurus in google im sure youll see some other people talking about it.
 

srmofo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
6,161
Location
SW ohio
With a vague question like that, Im going to give you the best vague answer I can.

You need to know how something works before you know why something isnt working. You will learn more as more stuff breaks and you get to fix it.

I started fixing my moms car when I was 14-15. From there it snowballed, I got lots of experience through highschool fixing all of my friends cars and eventually got to the point where I didnt work for free anymore because I was confident enough to tackle most problems, I was smart enough to know when something was above my head though and turned away work that I wasnt ready for.

As far as your current coolant problem, is the car getting up to operating temp? You need to know for sure, and many times the gauges are not accurate at all.(more on this in a minute) Im asking because you ran it low on coolant for some time and it possible that it had a fail safe thermostat in it. Fail safe t-stats will lock in the open position if they are over heated. That can prevent the car from getting to full operating temp. Over heating can also damage regular t-stats and cause those to fail open.

Back to the gauge. If its not accurate, it could have easily gotten hot enough to damage the t-stats without you noticing.

If you dont have access to a scanner to check the temp in the pcm, then you can go old fashioned and drop a thermometer in the reservoir. (IIRC those dont have caps on the radiator) Do this before you start the engine to warm it up. Otherwise you are opening a hot coolant system and that is never a good thing.
 

little jimmy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
45
Location
S.D.
I have a 98 taurus that had the same heat problem. There is a bypass hose that lets the hot water go around the heater core if it is plugged. Since the by pass allows the pressure to not push evey thing through the heater core it plugs up fairly easy especially if your coolant is dirty. I flushed the system by takeing off a hose from the water pump and a hose from the return side. I also used a pinch off plyers to close the by pass hose while flushing. That worked for a while and then it would plug up again so I cut the bypass hose and put a valve in it that I can turn part way closed so the pressure has to push through the heat core. It may not work for every one but it has worked with no problems for me for over three years.
Good luck, Jim
 

wssix99

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
5,172
Location
Chicago, IL
If its for your Camaro - go to Helm Inc. and order the GM Factory Service Manual for your car! For what it will teach you, the price is an absolute bargain. The manual contains GM's procedures for fixing your car and has detailed troubleshooting and diagnosis guides.

As long as you have basic wrench skills, tools, a torque wrench, and sockets, you'll be able to fix 80% of the things that will go wrong with the car yourself. (The other 20% is either really advanced or will require a lift.)
 

PassnThru

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
6,517
Location
Bowling Green KY
So im thinking about learning more about fixing up cars...and im not scared to try to fix anything, but just want to know the best way to go about actually diagnosing the problem...

I have a mechanic friend who has a shop and im sure i could get him to look at it and tell me whats what, but iw ouldn't mind trying to figure it out on my own first.

If you want to learn more about cars then you need to look to your mechanic friend. If you're tight with him - then he will help you. But you need to treat it like he is giving you something (which he is) and you have to give back however you can. The absolute best way to learn anything is to hang with the people that know how to do it and be willing to learn. Experience counts for everything - and the best lessons come from those that already have it.
 

boohocky

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
156
Location
Los Angeles, CA
If you want to learn more about cars then you need to look to your mechanic friend. If you're tight with him - then he will help you. But you need to treat it like he is giving you something (which he is) and you have to give back however you can. The absolute best way to learn anything is to hang with the people that know how to do it and be willing to learn. Experience counts for everything - and the best lessons come from those that already have it.

+1 on this. Hanging around people that have put the time in already and have the willingness to teach you something are the people you need to pay attention to. It can be aggravating but you'll be happy in the end. Just be sure to give back when you can, no one likes a leech.

But also don't be afraid to grab the bull by the horns either. Take on some simple jobs at first, learning how things work, and how to diagnose a problem. I remember my first big job when I was still learning cars. A clutch job on a 94 Honda Civic. I got everything together only to notice the fork that holds the throwout bearing wasn't attached all the way, and the whole transmission had to come out again. But i've never made that mistake again since. Good can also come out of failure. A failure is only a failure when you refuse to learn from it.
 
OP
W

Wills.WindowsAndWheels

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
348
Location
Gilbert,Az
With a vague question like that, Im going to give you the best vague answer I can.

You need to know how something works before you know why something isnt working. You will learn more as more stuff breaks and you get to fix it.

I started fixing my moms car when I was 14-15. From there it snowballed, I got lots of experience through highschool fixing all of my friends cars and eventually got to the point where I didnt work for free anymore because I was confident enough to tackle most problems, I was smart enough to know when something was above my head though and turned away work that I wasnt ready for.

As far as your current coolant problem, is the car getting up to operating temp? You need to know for sure, and many times the gauges are not accurate at all.(more on this in a minute) Im asking because you ran it low on coolant for some time and it possible that it had a fail safe thermostat in it. Fail safe t-stats will lock in the open position if they are over heated. That can prevent the car from getting to full operating temp. Over heating can also damage regular t-stats and cause those to fail open.

Back to the gauge. If its not accurate, it could have easily gotten hot enough to damage the t-stats without you noticing.

If you dont have access to a scanner to check the temp in the pcm, then you can go old fashioned and drop a thermometer in the reservoir. (IIRC those dont have caps on the radiator) Do this before you start the engine to warm it up. Otherwise you are opening a hot coolant system and that is never a good thing.

I stayed on top of refilling the coolant...it never RAN hot except for the day it blew...it ran fine on the freeway (enough air i suppose to keep it cool) but when i got onto side streets she started getting pretty high...the Big Fella up stairs must have been with me because, i pulled into the driveway...shut my door on the car and then SPLASH...she blew lol. It wasn't getting driven a lot during the time it had the leak...it was very small, but was in an area that couldn't be repaired.

Ill check the temp like you said, but from the checking i did after replacing the radiator and refilling it (and watching the level as the book described) it to be reaching the temp needed to have the t-stat kick in. I think i'll check the blend door first since it is probably the easiest to get to, if thats good then ill move to the heater core hoses and test them as DTT suggested, if thats good then i think ill move onto what you're talking about. I THINK its the blend door, i remember my buddy telling me a year ago or so on either this car or my moms van that the door wasn't working as well as it should, just cant remember which vehicle it was! I'll find out soon enough though

+1 on this. Hanging around people that have put the time in already and have the willingness to teach you something are the people you need to pay attention to. It can be aggravating but you'll be happy in the end. Just be sure to give back when you can, no one likes a leech.

But also don't be afraid to grab the bull by the horns either. Take on some simple jobs at first, learning how things work, and how to diagnose a problem. I remember my first big job when I was still learning cars. A clutch job on a 94 Honda Civic. I got everything together only to notice the fork that holds the throwout bearing wasn't attached all the way, and the whole transmission had to come out again. But i've never made that mistake again since. Good can also come out of failure. A failure is only a failure when you refuse to learn from it.

I agree. My godpapa knows a lot about cars...so im always watching him and picking his brain, he's done so much of it though that i dont want to drag him into too much of the WORK, hopefully i can do most of it and he can kinda guide me as to what to do. Ive learned a lot from him, hell mst of what i know.

I totally agree on a failure being a failure only if you give up (or dont learn from it). I try to relate everything to everything, so the same patience and dedication i show to my music for example, i try to put into everything else as well...and not be so arrogant that i think just because i did it or am trying to do it, that it'll just work the first time. I heard jay-z say something along the lines of success has really taught him nothing, but failures have taught him through his whole life. Im not a big jay-z fan, but what he said makes sense and pretty much sums up how i feel as well.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom