Mechanics get screwed

[GTA Matt]

For a number of different reasons, this subject has been on my mind lately. IMO, Mechanics really get screwed when it comes to the amount (and cost) of tools they are expected to own to in order to work.

Most jobs outside of the "trades" do not require the employees to own their own tools. I'm in IT and my tools are stuff like computers, software, cell phone, etc.. If you add up the cost of all of the hardware and software I'm given to do my job, it would easily be over $10k. If I was a CAD guy or developer it would be even more.

Even within the skilled trades, mechanics have it the worst IMO. Sure Plumbers and Electricians are usually required to own some of their own tools too but typically just some basic hand tools. Most plumbers and electricians I know (who don't own their own business) have less then $200 worth of tools that "need" for their job. Power tools, diagnostic tools, etc. are typically supplied by the company they work for. Welders, maintenance guys, industrial electo\mechanical guys, etc., none of them typically have to invest near as much money into tools as the average mechanic does.

When you compare that to what the average mechanic gets paid and then factor in the toll that kind of work has on your body, it really makes me wonder why anybody would choose that line of work these days?

My girlfriend is a high school teacher. She has 70k in student loans to pay. I have 70k worth of tools that are now paid for. I make twice as much money as she does. So who is getting screwed


Tuition fees for many jobs are the "tool payments" in our field. It takes money to make money.

 

[joecon]

I havebeen a mechaanic for a long time. When I started all you needed was
a 6 drawer chest and english [inch] tools.Impact wrenches and meters[tach-dwell]
were supplyed buy the shop.You became a mechanic by geting a job pumping gas
ussualy in high school then if the guys in the shop liked you they showed you how
to do things[change tires and oil]and if you liked the job you started buying tools
I bought one wrench or socket at a time because that is what I could afford.
fast forward to today mechanics have huge boxes larger than the house I grew up
in they own all thier own tools scopes, jacks,scanners ete..There is also no way
to start if you don't have tools and skills you have no value to your employer.
And the pay when you look at life style is far less to day than it was back them.
your investment was less and your return was higher. Also no other trade has the
same investment in tools.A good mechanic also has to train all the time most of
the plumbers and carpaners I know have been bilding the same bildings for all thier
lives.

I am a mechanic now but I owned my own shop for over 10 years and before that I
worked my way up from pumping gas to where I am now.I am an ASE master tech
auto & HD and run a very high end shop.

 

[86k10]

Just a question about supplying your own tools also mentioned in the post above, how many mechanics supply their own jacks and stands? I only heard of one place that only supplied an air tap, electricity, and customers. I couldn't believe that when he told me this but I dont think he was bull shitting me.

 

[kmkalf]

Well you have to in order to hang with the cool kids. I think the snap on thing is more of a they come to you and front you the tools. Craftsman wont do that unless you get the sears card with huge interest rate. But with the truck account if you can only pay 40 instead of 60 one paycheck you can work that out with the dealer. There is a human element to it.

No one starts small anymore because no one will hire them. Why would a shop hire some new guy just starting out with hardly any tools and almost no experience when he has apps on his desk from 50+ people with full sets of tools and 25+ year experience willing to do the same thing for the same price. Is this right? Depends who you ask. I say no. I would rather hire a new person and train him to my way but that it me. Someone gave me the chance at one point and I need to return that 10 fold I believe.

Our shop manager just hired a new kid that is 23 with only having a basic Blue Point service set. The kid just spent a whole lot of money off the Mac truck for a box and some tools. We work on everything from small cars to tractors and trailers. This new kid has no idea how to do half the stuff or the tools to do the job properly. We are flat rate and although we don't mind helping each other out it is a big pain to "help" the new guy do half the job while taking away from our jobs. To top it off we all get paid the same base rate

 

[atwageman]

Just a question about supplying your own tools also mentioned in the post above, how many mechanics supply their own jacks and stands? I only heard of one place that only supplied an air tap, electricity, and customers. I couldn't believe that when he told me this but I dont think he was bull shitting me.

I've heard of this happening at lower end shops in ****** parts of town.

 

[Fastbird]

I think a lot of the screwing comes from guys feeling pressured into jumping on the truck tool band wagon. Those truck tools/boxes are nice, but cheaper tools will do the same job as those costing 3+ times as much. But if you feel the need to jump on that wagon in order to fit in, then so be it. I'll stick with my craftsman stuff and be happy pocketing my money.

I also think in addition to the cost effectiveness and theft issues of shop owned tools (unless it's a smaller shop like I'm in right now, it works well there), it's actually a good thing for mechanics to supply their own basic tools. Accountability, individuality, and you're allowed to choose what you work with, as different tools have different feels.

 

[atwageman]

Our shop manager just hired a new kid that is 23 with only having a basic Blue Point service set. The kid just spent a whole lot of money off the Mac truck for a box and some tools. We work on everything from small cars to tractors and trailers. This new kid has no idea how to do half the stuff or the tools to do the job properly. We are flat rate and although we don't mind helping each other out it is a big pain to "help" the new guy do half the job while taking away from our jobs. To top it off we all get paid the same base rate

Either your shop manager is an idiot, or he owes the kid or his parents a favor......

 

[kmkalf]

Either your shop manager is an idiot, or he owes the kid or his parents a favor......

it is def the first one. He has a big problem with hiring people. In the little time that i've been there (little over a year) we've gone through 4 service writers- half of whom i don't remember their names, 1 tech who lasted half a day due to failing a drug test

 

[smogtech]

Just a question about supplying your own tools also mentioned in the post above, how many mechanics supply their own jacks and stands? I only heard of one place that only supplied an air tap, electricity, and customers. I couldn't believe that when he told me this but I dont think he was bull shitting me.

I work at a dealership and we all have lifts. But I do bring my own floor jack and jack stands as part of my tool box. Use jackstands to support subframes when dropping motors, and floor jack to raise motors up and down in cars for various reasons. I don't want to take up shop jackstands for any extensive period of time, and I rather bring my aluminum jack than lug around the old steel lincoln jack we have.

Also as for tools as a flat rate mechanic I feel its a investment towards making more money. Lets take my Snap On Interior Pad trim tool which costed about $35. Lets say on replacing seatbelt buckles it saves me 2 mins. Lets say I do that job about 3 times a week and at a dealership that does happen that is 6 mins a week, 18 mins a month, 3.6 hours a year x $20 an hour which is 72 dollars. And that is only one particular job this tool is useful across many jobs so that number could be higher for that tool. And this could go to say for alot of tools you buy, even the toolbox itself.

And by you buying your own tools makes you slightly different from everyone else. In my shop Im the one of only two people that have a compression leak down tester ( for the first year I was the only one who had one) so when advance diagnostics is needed guess who they come to? I also lend it out in return for lunches and drinks. Having it pays off.

 

[Ironhorse]

Electrian..and my starter tool set was over 2k...when I quit I had a little over 35k in tools...and yes I worked for a company...Hydrolic Crip tools are not cheap...nor are electric pipe benders....and yes we rented some but a few of us had our own...we were paid more to own our own...

 

[smogtech]

Electrian..and my starter tool set was over 2k...when I quit I had a little over 35k in tools...and yes I worked for a company...Hydrolic Crip tools are not cheap...nor are electric pipe benders....and yes we rented some but a few of us had our own...we were paid more to own our own...

Thats another good thing too about owning your own tools. My brother in law is a telecomm guy. He gets a little bit extra on his check because he uses his own truck and supplies his own tools.

 

[nanofrog]

Where are you coming up with equal investment in education and tooling for a mechanic and an engineer who's doing consulting work?

I included tools in that as well, not just education.

Education:
Engineer: 5 years @ $20k per (state university, not private)
Mechanic: 2 years @ $10k per (i.e. community college)

Tools & Equipment:
Engineer: $20k (rather modest, but doable, particularly with used gear).
Mechanic: $100k all in

Both come out to $120k.

I'm not saying that it's absolutely on parity, but education + tools may not be as horribly different as you might think (no highly specialized focus that forces the need for more expensive equipment on the engineering side).

 

[bcradio]

Many companies are doing BYOD computers. Some give you an allowance and you can bring in whatever you want. I would love it if where I work we would do that. The POS Dell on my desk would be in the trash so fast it wouldn't know what hit it. In its place would be a million times better MacBook Pro.

ewwwwww maccccc runnnnn!!!

 

[bcradio]

My girlfriend is a high school teacher. She has 70k in student loans to pay. I have 70k worth of tools that are now paid for. I make twice as much money as she does. So who is getting screwed


Tuition fees for many jobs are the "tool payments" in our field. It takes money to make money.

You... she gets 4 months off a year!

 

[smogtech]

You... she gets 4 months off a year!

yea but she has to deal with high schoolers. Im not sure how well I could I could handle the 16 year old me.... gives me the shivers

 

[Ironhorse]

Thats another good thing too about owning your own tools. My brother in law is a telecomm guy. He gets a little bit extra on his check because he uses his own truck and supplies his own tools.

 

[bcradio]

yea but she has to deal with high schoolers. Im not sure how well I could I could handle the 16 year old me.... gives me the shivers

Ha ha very true, my patience for that would be very limited. Always makes me jealous when my friends who teach high school are coming up on summer break though.

 

[GTA Matt]

You... she gets 4 months off a year!

She doesn't get paid for those months off either....

 

[waggie]

Here's an example of one of the ways mechanics DO NOT have to buy their own tools:

I have a cousin who is a mechanic at a Mercedes Benz dealership in Taiwan, and the dealership supplies all the tools. But there is a catch: Anything you break, you replace. Say, you broke a 10mm wrench, you are suppose replace it with anther 10mm wrench, any 10mm wrench will do, be it SnapOn or chicom.

When you're hired, you take over a service bay and the tools that are in that service bay. Presumably, the tools are left by the previous mechanic who replaced whatever the tools he broke with cheap tools. Some of the mechanics have begun to bring their own higher quality tools and avoid using the crappy company supplied stuff altogether... so we're back where we started

keep in mind these are high dollar vehicles, in a country where it costs 2 to 4 times as much as it does in the US. Entry level Benz starts at $60,000 USD instead of $32,000 USD.

 

[mtkst19]

i dont feel wrenches are getting screwed. If anything, the tools should be a thing of pride. If you dont have pride in your workmanship or your tools, then why the hell are you working on cars? Yes, you need to pay bills. But lets face it, no one is going to get rich. You can make an honest living though.

I have 2 college degrees. they lay dormant as I spin wrenches for a living. It started out as a summer time college job that grew into more. I more or less was apprenticed in. Hard to believe it all started from a 100 piece c-man tool set, the yellow hand carry c-man box, and a bunch of hand me downs.

Joecon above kinda touched on it above. I think the "new" guys getting into the trade are getting tossed into the fire for **** they cant handle. I think a lot of it has to deal w/ guys coming out of trade schools are blown so much smoke up their *** that they think they are worth 30 an hour straight from school. Yet the reality is you start out low and work your way up. Majority of the new wyotech kids are real good for pulling codes, looking on google, then devising a plan. They cant come up w/ their own ideals or explain how the system works etc.

Thankfully, either they learn or they get weeded out.

 

[Danglerb]

I agree! that is why I start my electrician apprenticeship in january

You earn your pay one way or another, like a 13" crawlspace with blown in fiberglass in August and crawly insect companions to help you do the job faster.

 

[theknurl]

you want to do the job?.......have the tools

i started getting paid as a mechanic in '59
i have the tools.....for that
i'm a welder;
Lincoln 300/300, SP-200, Victor cutting, Purox #00 welding/brazing and some spot welders, positioners and rotary tables
a tin bender;
Pexto bead, wiring rollers, bar folder, seamer, stake plate and stakes, Dies and Krump leaf brake, Niagara 4' gap shear, CP planishing hammer, ERCO and NAA shrinker/stretchers
and custom made tin snips and 500lbs of hammers and dollies and Beverly shear and German chop shear
a blacksmith;
JHM 160lb anvil from Texas, gas forge and all the tongs and stuff
a framer;
Milwaukee saw and drills, custom Vaughn hammer, Senco nailers and compressor, Stabile levels and a Kern theodolite
i engrave guns;
most of my tools are from Engraver...air tool, ball vise, etc
i used to teach woodworking....
my planes are Baileys and Stanleys up to #8, my carving chisels are Henckels, the jig saw is Bosch, so is the power plane, the 1/4 sheet is a PC, so is the biscuit joiner and router.....got a Kreg too
my window tint machine is aluminum, stainless, Delrin and titanium
my Portapower is a prewar Blackhawk

my Father bought 2 Athol vises in 1931, he gave me the 614 in '75,
i made a 10', 3/8" steel topped bench to bolt it to

just add up the Lincoln 300/300, Niagara 4' gap shear, ERCO shrinker/stretcher and Kern theodolite......together

then throw in the tint machine

and what did you invest?

oh, i have the diagnostic tools for my bikes too like the $2,400 Axion
just picked up a Fluke 566 IR pyrometer for checking the bikes

yes, i'm single

No, Honey it's time for you to go home......thanks for the nice time

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Well you have to in order to hang with the cool kids. I think the snap on thing is more of a they come to you and front you the tools. Craftsman wont do that unless you get the sears card with huge interest rate. But with the truck account if you can only pay 40 instead of 60 one paycheck you can work that out with the dealer. There is a human element to it.

Depending on what you buy, you can get interest free terms for one year on a sears card.

I bought the 540 piece set just tonight and was presented that option. I signed up for that option but I always pay off credit cards in full when the bill comes in.

 

[bimmerZ5]

i don't know what the typical mechanic's work environment is like, but i've known a few in my life. one guy worked for a dealer and that dealership had the cleanest, advanced setup i've ever seen (they gave me a tour)... every bay was clean and every mechanic/technician there got a complete set of tools provided by the dealer. they basically had to show up and do their job; no need to bring your own tools and the provided tool set was complete to do any job they needed to do. the guy i knew who worked at this dealer was in his late 20's... and he said, depending on the jobs that come his way, he was making between $100K-$120K a year... which i thought was a really good wage for a late 20's guy, and this was about 8 yrs ago. he did mention that in order to work there, he had to go through a special training program for that manufacturer after he got done with trade school... so i have no idea how much student debt he had accumulated to get into his job...

i have a friend who owns his own shop. He use to work for the dealers, but decided he didn't like the way that worked. (getting paid per job, instead of quality of workmanship) he got his own shop and he's really the only mechanic I trust these days... does an excellent job, cleans every part, takes pictures of everything he's done to show you later, etc. he obviously has to buy his own tools, but man.... his life kind of *****. his shop got broken into countless times... a lot of his tools got stolen... his A/C recovery machine got stolen.. his personal project motorcycle got stolen.... the business lot next to his shop was a illegal narcotics warehouse and got raided by the FBI once and they had to shut down his business for several days during the investigation... i don't know how much he makes, i know he never charges me anything close to what the dealer does... but the headache he has to put up with is something i'd rather avoid.

 

[camarotoolman]

Look what a 4 year degree costs now. Alot of those people can't get any kind of job. Alot make less than mechanics that do have jobs. If I had a mechanics skills, I would be buying cars on the way to the scraper, fixing and reselling. Or doing side jobs for cash.

 

[sdguy55]

you want to do the job?.......have the tools

i started getting paid as a mechanic in '59
i have the tools.....for that
i'm a welder;
Lincoln 300/300, SP-200, Victor cutting, Purox #00 welding/brazing and some spot welders, positioners and rotary tables
a tin bender;
Pexto bead, wiring rollers, bar folder, seamer, stake plate and stakes, Dies and Krump leaf brake, Niagara 4' gap shear, CP planishing hammer, ERCO and NAA shrinker/stretchers
and custom made tin snips and 500lbs of hammers and dollies and Beverly shear and German chop shear
a blacksmith;
JHM 160lb anvil from Texas, gas forge and all the tongs and stuff
a framer;
Milwaukee saw and drills, custom Vaughn hammer, Senco nailers and compressor, Stabile levels and a Kern theodolite
i engrave guns;
most of my tools are from Engraver...air tool, ball vise, etc
i used to teach woodworking....
my planes are Baileys and Stanleys up to #8, my carving chisels are Henckels, the jig saw is Bosch, so is the power plane, the 1/4 sheet is a PC, so is the biscuit joiner and router.....got a Kreg too
my window tint machine is aluminum, stainless, Delrin and titanium
my Portapower is a prewar Blackhawk

my Father bought 2 Athol vises in 1931, he gave me the 614 in '75,
i made a 10', 3/8" steel topped bench to bolt it to

just add up the Lincoln 330/300, Niagara 4' gap shear, ERCO shrinker/stretcher and Kern theodolite......together

then throw in the tint machine

and what did you invest?

oh, i have the diagnostic tools for my bikes too like the $2,400 Axion
just picked up a Fluke 566 IR pyrometer for checking the bikes

yes, i'm single

No, Honey it's time for you to go home......thanks for the nice time

i have no idea of what even an 1/8 of your stuff is

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

 

[4x4gearhead]

I suppose being a mechanic in more cases than not ends up being a difficult thankless job. I have somewhere over $40k invested at age 24, it wasnt easy to do and I would say I did it faster than most people would have. When I started wrenching for a living at 18 I decided that buying as much stuff as I could while I was living with my parents and didnt have bills would be a good thing to do. For the most part it worked out for me. I still have some tool debt but its nothing extreme. You have to want to do it. Im not sure why it is that I do, but its kind of in my blood. In my early teens to the time I was around 17-18 I was lost and getting in trouble, being a mechanic was the only thing Ive ever wanted to do in my life (not really sure why) and it kept me out of trouble, gave me a place to go and taught me self worth. It has done good things for me, but I realize I wont be able to do it forever if I want to make it past age 50.

 

[kiatech]

You earn your pay one way or another, like a 13" crawlspace with blown in fiberglass in August and crawly insect companions to help you do the job faster.

That gave me a good a laugh. A few black widows hanging around would motivate me.

 

[itguy08]

ewwwwww maccccc runnnnn!!!

I've been in IT since the DOS days when everything was a command line and the 8088 was the "hot" CPU...

Windows computers are like Harbor Freight - Low quality and probably will get the job done but will need lots of care and feeding. And when you are done with it, it will be virtually worthless.

Mac and OS X are like Snap On - Expensive and ooze quality. You don't know what you are missing until you buy and use one. When you are done you will still get a good chunk of your $$ back if/when you sell it.

 

[bcradio]

She doesn't get paid for those months off either....

she must have special circumstances... The norm is they get paid year round.

 

[kythri]

I've been in IT since the DOS days when everything was a command line and the 8088 was the "hot" CPU...

Windows computers are like Harbor Freight - Low quality and probably will get the job done but will need lots of care and feeding. And when you are done with it, it will be virtually worthless.

Mac and OS X are like Snap On - Expensive and ooze quality. You don't know what you are missing until you buy and use one. When you are done you will still get a good chunk of your $$ back if/when you sell it.

Derail contribution:

Unlike a Mac, however, all of the same stuff works with Snap-On as it does any other brand. Doesn't matter the car (software), it works with all tools (computer platforms).

And having been in IT for millennia myself, I know that Macs break just as often as any PC, and are far more expensive when they do so.

You know why you don't hear about as many Mac issues? Because Mac market share is the barest fraction of the PC (If you remove iOS devices from the equation to abrogate the disingenuous inflation of Apple's market share).

PCs running Windows have over a 90% market share, while Mac has about 7, maybe 8%. (It's amusing that Apple likes to brag that, as of September 2012, Mac OS X overtook Windows Vista for usage share. Seriously? It took them THAT long to overtake Vista?! That's comical.)

But, all of that aside - I'm not saying they're not decent systems - but they're not magically any better than a PC, and software development for Mac is a sidenote for any serious developer.

If you like using a Mac, by all means, continue to do so. The UI does have some refinements that are lacking on other platforms, but you're not getting yourself anything measurably "better" - in fact, Macs are nothing more than overpriced PC hardware now that they're running on the x86/x64 architecture these days.

 

[bcradio]

I've been in IT since the DOS days when everything was a command line and the 8088 was the "hot" CPU...

Windows computers are like Harbor Freight - Low quality and probably will get the job done but will need lots of care and feeding. And when you are done with it, it will be virtually worthless.

Mac and OS X are like Snap On - Expensive and ooze quality. You don't know what you are missing until you buy and use one. When you are done you will still get a good chunk of your $$ back if/when you sell it.

Used them both quite extensively and the opposite is true. MS has its problems too, but nowhere near as bad as Apple.

 

[kythri]

she must have special circumstances... The norm is they get paid year round.

It seems to be pretty regular (in several states, at least) that teachers can elect to either have their annual salary paid over a 12 month period, or paid over the entire work period.

Regardless of how they elect to have their pay disbursed, they're paid for those months off.

 

[itguy08]

I'd love to debate the Mac vs PC thing but I don't think this is the proper thread for it so perhaps we should start another?

 

[cgv69]

Wow, do I regret using the word "screwed" Some of you took me way too literally or read more into it then I meant or implied.

All I meant by it was that on average, the typical mechanic has a lot more out of pocket expenses then a typical employee in some other field. Yes, many of you made sure to point out it's not just mechanics and I never said that it was, only that IMO they typically have it worse then others.

Many of you tried to compare it to owning your own business. I think that is a completely false and inaccurate analogy unless of course the mechanic owns the shop\company.

Some of you tried to equate it to education costs which again, I don't think is a fair comparison. As I stated earlier, tools are only going to help you as long as you stay that field. A degree will help you regardless of what field you go into. If you get a degree in Engineering or Accounting or Education, you are not pigeonholed into those fields. As an example, at one point the head of Apple's manufacturing division was a lady who had a masters degree in English. An $80K education will always be worth more then $80k in tools.

I do think at least some of you got what I was trying to convey? Not all of you agreed but that's cool too. Either way, I think this thread has run it's course

 

[kythri]

Some of you tried to equate it to education costs which again, I don't think is a fair comparison. As I stated earlier, tools are only going to help you as long as you stay that field.

My certifications are only going to help me as long as I stay in my field. Some of them are specialized to specific hardware or vendor platforms, so don't provide a direct benefit unless I'm working somewhere that uses that hardware or those vendors.

I paid for those certifications myself, and did not receive direct recompense for them.

I think it's an incredibly fair comparison.

You have to have the tools to do the job. In my case, it's specialized education/certifications and some nifty electronics.

 

[demonspeed]

Just a question about supplying your own tools also mentioned in the post above, how many mechanics supply their own jacks and stands? I only heard of one place that only supplied an air tap, electricity, and customers. I couldn't believe that when he told me this but I dont think he was bull shitting me.

So the techs would have to buy their own lift? Or was a lift provided?

 

[bimmerZ5]

My certifications are only going to help me as long as I stay in my field. Some of them are specialized to specific hardware or vendor platforms, so don't provide a direct benefit unless I'm working somewhere that uses that hardware or those vendors.

I paid for those certifications myself, and did not receive direct recompense for them.

I think it's an incredibly fair comparison.

You have to have the tools to do the job. In my case, it's specialized education/certifications and some nifty electronics.

i think he was talking about a university education vs a professional certification... and i do agree. if you're a PhD in something, people (potential employers) are going to just assume you're a pretty smart dude... some industry certification usually doesn't carry that much weight.

 

[Catamount]

Windows computers are like Harbor Freight - Low quality and probably will get the job done but will need lots of care and feeding. And when you are done with it, it will be virtually worthless.

Mac and OS X are like Snap On - Expensive and ooze quality. You don't know what you are missing until you buy and use one. When you are done you will still get a good chunk of your $$ back if/when you sell it.

This is the most ridiculous comment I've read in a long time.

 

[bimmerZ5]

This is the most ridiculous comment I've read in a long time.

LOL! I'd have to agree... I think a Mac is more like a HFT box with a Snap-On badge on it being sold on CL.