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Menards LED fixtures...

Jim Dawson

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Two years ago I installed 9 LED fixtures I bought from Menards. They appeared to be a great choice with their 5 year warranty and low price.. Now, two years later they are considerably dimmer than when new. I thought it was my imagination until I installed two more over work benches. The new ones are considerably brighter.

I guess I'll learn to live with it but it is disappointing to say the least. This is just a warning for those thinking about using these inexpensive fixture.
 
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cybrdyke

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Yup.
Ya get what ya pay for....

The fine print in the warranty is usually only for workmanship and in best case scenario, failure. Fading out is not considered failure. We have one manufacturer near us, Energy Focus, who's warranty does not cover the lamp as long as there is a tiny little bit of light coming out of it.

Thanks for pointing this out, Jim, so that others will know what to watch out for.
CD
 

IowaDon

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If you still have the receipt, Menards will take them all back and give you store credit to replace them.
 

Bert_

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This needs a bump.

I'm glad someone took time to post this. This WILL be a common failure mode of these cheap led "shop lights" whether they are from menards, costco, ect.
 

cybrdyke

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This needs a bump.

I'm glad someone took time to post this. This WILL be a common failure mode of these cheap led "shop lights" whether they are from menards, costco, ect.....

......the internet.....ebay......amazon.....
 

ishiboo

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LED lights typically don't just "dim" over time... especially not in the typical lifetime of a shop light. Are you sure the new ones don't have higher lumen outputs?
 
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Jim Dawson

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Bert_

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LED lights typically don't just "dim" over time... especially not in the typical lifetime of a shop light. Are you sure the new ones don't have higher lumen outputs?

Actually they DO, it's the normal failure mode of led's.

In the industry once the light reaches 70% of original output it is considered end of life, this point is referenced as L70. The light may still work after this point but should be replaced due to the low light output.

Decent quality fixtures should take 50,000-100,000 hours to reach this point. Cheap fixtures are known for over-driving the led chips, which overheats them and severley shortens their life. Doing this enables the manufacturer to use smaller or less led's to achieve a certain light output. It makes the fixture cheaper but it doesn't last.

A good point to take away would be, if a light lists lifespan but does not say "at L70" then ignore that number since it is meaningless. Sure the light could still work at 50,000 hours but it might be as dim as a candle!
 
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Jim Dawson

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Actually they DO, it's the normal failure mode of led's.

In the industry once the light reaches 70% of original output it is considered end of life, this point is referenced as L70. The light may still work after this point but should be replaced due to the low light output.

Decent quality fixtures should take 50,000-100,000 hours to reach this point. Cheap fixtures are known for over-driving the led chips, which overheats them and severley shortens their life. Doing this enables the manufacturer to use smaller or less led's to achieve a certain light output. It makes the fixture cheaper but it doesn't last.

A good point to take away would be, if a light lists lifespan but does not say "at L70" then ignore that number since it is meaningless. Sure the light could still work at 50,000 hours but it might be as dim as a candle!

I haven't found lights that give the L70 rating.
 
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cybrdyke

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LED lights typically don't just "dim" over time...
ALL light sources dim over time.
Metal Halide, for instance, can dim out 50% in its rated lifetime.
You actually read that? That hurt my brain...
Here's how life ratings are determined:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4592332&postcount=1

Actually they DO, it's the normal failure mode of led's.

:thumbup:
 

American Locomotive

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Another point of failure for these cheap LED fixtures is the driver. They often use cheap capacitors and resistors that can drift over time, reducing the output of the driver. A simple way to check would be to use a device like a Kill-A-Watt (~$15 from Amazon). If the dim fixtures use less power than the new fixtures, the drivers are dying. If the dim fixtures use the same amount of power as the new fixtures, the LEDs are dying.
 
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Jim Dawson

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I replaced the cheap Menard's lights with these from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0797RT5JJ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I don't know how long they will last but at least they have a published L70 life of 50,000 hours with a 5 year warranty. They are easily flush mounted to the ceiling or with chains. They are almost twice as bright as the old ones. A huge improvement.
 

GRB

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I have quite a bit of experience with some of the cheap LED "shop lights" and am not impressed. We did a temporary install of 6 Costco Feit LED to fill in an area until the lighting circuits could be all redone and lighting optimized in one small parts warehouse. Four are on 70 hours/week during business hours. Two are used rarely when someone is working in that area, probably no more than 10 hours a month. After three years you can readily see the difference. That's 11,000 hours for the 4.

One section has 21 single bulb 8' T-12 lamps. The rate of light reduction for the Costco LEDs is a little better than the 8' T-12 (Phillips F96T12/CW Supreme). So the "short life" T-12 are rated at 12,000 hours, which is 3.25 years for our use. If we use the same type of rating, the Costco LED are probably good for almost 4 years.

In the offices we use good quality T-8 fluorescents for 10 years under the same use. As an experiment I changed out 4 of the offices to T-8 LED conversions. Each brand/model got 4 bulbs so eight different LED brands/models. All but one has had a failure of 1 in the 3 years so basically a 25% failure rate in 3 years. Most of the 22-24w LED had 2 failures out of 4 for a 50% failure rate in 3 years. So far I'm not really impressed with T-8 LED conversions either. I hope they are getting better.

For another point of reference I ran 998 Sylvania Octron 21681 T8 24x7 for 5 years before changing them each time. They are rated right at that 44,000 hours at 10% light loss. Since we could only shut them down once a year, we never were brave enough to try for 6 years. We had to meet certain standards for light levels for production and quality assurance and the light monitoring system pretty much matched the 10% light loss spec from the manufacturer at 40,000 hours.

The complete failure rate for cheap LED is running much higher than fluorescents for my uses. However, I am using good T12 and T-8 bulbs and we don't have to deal with very cold temperatures here.
 
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Bert_

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b-b-b-but... "it's led" it has to be better.:rolleyes:

I guess the marketing department done good.
 

Platonic Solid

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GRB - Suggest converting to higher quality LED fixtures with independent drivers (not budget retrofits). There are many with L70 of 100,000 hrs and some at 200,000 hrs. Contact your power company for incentive programs to help defer the cost. LED drivers are no different than fluorescent ballasts with respect to warranty, life span and cost of quality. Done right, quality LED fixtures will win the cost benefit analysis contest when you include energy savings.
 

jtuttle4

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Jim Dawson, what specific lights did you use from Menards that are having that issue? Just wondering so we know to avoid those as well.
 
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Jim Dawson

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