To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Mesh Or Rebar?

ConCretin

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
3,378
Location
Central Maine
Kevin54 has it about right so I'll just add a couple thoughts. A solid sub base is extremely important but shrinkage is the most common cause of cracks in concrete. Rebar, mesh and fiber won't prevent shrinkage cracks. Control joints just hide your shrinkage cracks in the bottom of the groove or saw cut.

Controlling shrinkage and associated cracking is possible but it requires careful planning and execution and has little to do with reinforcing. Most of the time it's just cheaper to cut some control joints. The old chestnut that starts with "there are two kinds of concrete......" is BS. You can place crack free concrete if you're willing to put in the time and effort.

In long, narrow structures such as sidewalks you are usually better off allowing for shrinkage rather than trying to restrain it. Though they are often referred to as expansion joints, planned breaks in concrete are really contraction joints.

If you run rebar through these joints, you prevent vertical displacement, which is good but you also restrict lateral movement, making shrinkage cracks somewhere else more likely. A better approach is to use smooth or plate dowels. This will prevent vertical movement i.e. trip hazards but allow lateral movement.

The only place I'd take exception to K54's comments is the thought that concrete isn't what it used to be. Today's concrete is stronger and more durable than ever. When future generations start trying to demo the structures we are currently building, they'll have a lot more trouble than we do today. It's not even close.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

G-force

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
739
Location
Oregon
So if you could only have one between wire mesh and fiber mesh, which would it be?

My guy wants $150 to add fiber mesh, or $450 for rebar. I'm leaning towards rebar without fiber mesh. This is in a 1990 built barn also. I've been told by some that it doesn't need any of the reinforcments added.
 

ffjosh

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2011
Messages
475
Location
IN
So if you could only have one between wire mesh and fiber mesh, which would it be?

My guy wants $150 to add fiber mesh, or $450 for rebar. I'm leaning towards rebar without fiber mesh. This is in a 1990 built barn also. I've been told by some that it doesn't need any of the reinforcments added.

#1 Rebar and fiber mesh
#2 Rebar without fiber mesh
#3 Wire mesh with fiber mesh
#4 Wire mesh without fibermesh

You need something in the concrete.
 

Notgrownup

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
5,844
Location
Snow Hill NC
Anywhere it freezes a lot , isn't rebar a must....here the inspector said if the concrete had fiber in it I didn't need either, but the fiber? Won't it make it **** more?
 

ffjosh

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2011
Messages
475
Location
IN
Anywhere it freezes a lot , isn't rebar a must....here the inspector said if the concrete had fiber in it I didn't need either, but the fiber? Won't it make it **** more?

I know lots of people who only use wire mesh and its fine in the winter.

I hope my concrete don't ****:lol_hitti
 

Notgrownup

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
5,844
Location
Snow Hill NC
I know lots of people who only use wire mesh and its fine in the winter.

I hope my concrete don't ****:lol_hitti

Mine was fiber mesh mixed in the concrete...I didn't use rebar or wire... I have been in eastern NC for 24 years now and I have never see the ground freeze yet more than 1" and it wasn't really that...I grew up in Canada where our pipes were like 3' deep and I remember my dad putting driveshafts, bed frames and a multitudes or scrap steel in the garage floor...My Brother in law who bought the place tore the floor down like 4 years ago and said HOLY **** what it that a damn scrap yard...LOL... thing never broke though for like 35 years it stayed there, not a crack...
 

Trey T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
3,749
Location
Houston, TX
You can only minimize cracking but can never prevent it. That's what I learned when I was in school.

-good foundation (subgrade)
-proper amount of reinforcement and spacing (having too much metal can cause to crack)
-good concrete mixture
-good hydration as it cures (kinda like if you're welding iron)

ppl cut slabs to control the cracking (kinda like fixing your car windshiled w/ drill at end of crack)
 
Last edited:

Notgrownup

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
5,844
Location
Snow Hill NC
I quit eating those little fiber bars because i was farting like a mofo....my slab is already stinking a bit.. Was it the fiber...
 

600SL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
1,794
Location
Connecticut
Rebar is obviously better than mesh but the cost of rebar especially the installation is drives most people to mesh. But if you can do the rebar yourself then the cost is not too bad but it is hard work.
 

Notgrownup

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
5,844
Location
Snow Hill NC
I was gonna put rebar at 4' just for the hell of it then the inspector told me I really didn't need it...I guess we shall see...
 

KCarGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,075
Location
50 miles outside Chicago, illinois
Good Ground Prep, Rebar and Cut Reliefs.
Thats what I used for my New Garage and Its still looks Great after 15 years.
But...Surprisingly, when I busted up and removed my Old Slab (Different spot on my Property), It also was in great shape and I had a real fun time, because they used Chain link fencing. That was a shocker!
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

G-force

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
739
Location
Oregon
So I scheduled my concrete to be done next Monday. I have decided to use both fiber mesh and rebar at 3' on center. I have a total of a little over 1100 sq ft going in. I am also adding a drain in one of the areas so I can wash and prep inside if ever necessary.

I'll post some pictures when it's all done.
 

Seethebeauty

New member
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
1
I am having my driveway, stairs and sidewalk redone. It is on a heavy grade and it is difficult to walk up to the house without better stairs. My problem is the original driveway and sidewalk are terrible. I moved in three years ago and the house is about 13 yrs. old. The driveway is heavily cracked and the entire surface is rocky. The stairs are separating from the porch. I live in Northern Colorado and get a lot of freezing temps and snow and ice. I am also doing the rocks on the side all the way to the end of the garage behind the privacy fence and into the back yard. How can I make sure this doesn't happen again. I am going with a no fly-ash, 6% air, 4000 psi concrete that apparantly has 0% chert. My contractor keeps veering away from rebar but has agreed to a six inch driveway and side driveway. He really wants to do mesh, but I keep hearing it ends up on the ground. Do I need a crushed rock base? We are putting under concrete drains from the gutters so the driveway doesn't get icy. Also, my parents driveway is 35 years old in the same town and doesn't have a single crack or spar and they park on it year round.
 

Toomanytools?

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
855
Location
Washington
Hey Seethebeauty, First post welcome, you know this thread was started back in 2012 and post before yours 2014? Still the information applies, sounds like your concrete wasn't done well 13 or so years ago. I don't know all the concrete sepc's but there is a mix that does better in freeze thaw conditions. I would hope your concrete guy knows what to use. I think on a slope as you have rebar would be my choice, he might want mesh because it's easier for him labor wise. I'm guessing you have to tear up all the old driveway, yes you need a good crushed rock base. Some guys will do a 1 1/2" to 2" rock subbase of 4-6" when on a sloped drive then go over that with a 5/8's minus at least 3".
Compaction is key, I would think you are running out of good weather in Northern Colorado to get this done. The rebar /mesh debate goes long and deep, you can get wire fabric/mesh that is 1/4" it is pretty substantial stuff.
 

Lelandwelds

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Messages
2,443
Location
Central Texas
I used post tension on the house.

For the garage I will probably use rebar in perimeter and beams and around the lift or pit. Some mesh in the field because I already have a bunch left over from making gabions. (How many tomato cages can one guy use anyway?) With my rock and soil type, my pour will be overkill. While it does get cold here for two weeks about every third year, I think I'll skip the radiant floor and underslab foam board.

Every job is different. Pick a concrete contractor you mostly trust and do whatever the local guy recommends. Forget the internet.
 

1jjpop

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
481
Location
Central Iowa
I once read 90% of wire placed in concrete ends up on the bottom of the slab. People stepping on wire places at the bottom of slab...
 

dsanchezanny

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
8
My friend who is a concrete contractor told me that concrete and rebar is like a strong marriage
 

ozyborn

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
684
Very deep and compacted sub base, #18 rebar. 6" slab. Fiber mesh as well. If you are going to overkill, then really overkill.
 

1rahamay

Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
11
These internet theories make me laugh.

We build industrial warehouses where the slab is the most critical feature. Anything from 150,000 to 600,000 sq ft. Guess what? They all spec wire mesh for the slabs, not mats.

Here’s the standard configuration:
Well compacted soil 95% typ, looking for 2500 to 3000 psf, termite spray, 15 mil vapor barrier,
6x6-W2.9xW2.9 WWF, 4000 psi conc, CJs saw cut within 24hrs of placing, typically land around 15’x13’ all depending on column spacing, fill joints with sikadur 51SL or Euco 700, finish slab with Ashford formula
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom