Metal building insulation in Texas climate

[gearheads78]

What should I do? I am about out of money building my new building so I need to either do a little at a time or find a way to save some money.
I don't plan on doing A/C any time soon if ever but I would like to insulate to keep the heat from building up inside as much as possible.

My builder and a few people I talk to say spray foam but its super expensive as you guys know. I have also been told that its not fire retardent and needs to be covered by drywall which I didn't intend on doing. Since I am always creating a lot of sparks or welding is this a problem with the spray foam?

I was thinking maybe do the spray foam on the roof now and do the board type with foil on the walls as I can afford it?

What have you done and what do you wish you did different?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

What type of metal building? Traditional steel building with steel frame ("red iron" building)? or pole building using wood poles, wall girts and roof purlins and trusses, but with steel skin? or some other hybrid combination?

Is the building up yet? or still in the planning stages, or under construction as we write?

How big? How tall? Doors?

Charles

 

[cdenton]

Well, I am near you (Rockwall) and putting one up now. I too do not plan to do ac anytime soon... I am installing R10 from Mueller. My strategy is to seal things up as good as possible. I am choosing to use extra dbl sticky tape along the seams to seal the air circulation. My neighbor has the same setup, with less "seal". His rarely gets below 50 in the winter. In the summer it cools down fairly quick with two opposing doors open.
If I choose to run AC in the future I will probably add steel panel to the inside and fill the walls and ceiling with insulation (8" will fit).

 

[moss9994]

I have had two different 30x40 metal buildings both around DFW.
The first one only had the ceiling insulated. The other one had the ceiling and walls insulated,
In the winter I had a terrible problem with humidity in the one with insulation on the ceiling only. When a cold front would come thru in the winter time the humidity was terrible inside the building. It was so bad it was hard on the stuff I was storing in it.
The one with insulation on the ceiling and walls was never a problem.

 

[Catalyze]

I am a bit north of you up near Lubbock/Amarillo area in NM. I have a 25 x 40 with insulated ceiling and walls. It is quite nice in summer and since I have radiant floor heat, it is great in winter. You know how the wind blows up here? My shop is so much cleaner than most others that I have been in without full insulation. It's not air tight but it's as quiet as a lot of houses when all the doors are closed. Good Luck!
Craig

 

[gearheads78]

What type of metal building? Traditional steel building with steel frame ("red iron" building)? or pole building using wood poles, wall girts and roof purlins and trusses, but with steel skin? or some other hybrid combination?

Is the building up yet? or still in the planning stages, or under construction as we write?

How big? How tall? Doors?

Charles

Its a red iron frame with sheet metal skin and metal purlins. Its about 90% up now and should be finished tomarrow. The buliding is 42 x 50 with 12 ft walls and has a 10 x 12 door on one 42ft end and another 10 x 10 on the other end.

 

[David79z28]

I have traditional vinyl backed insulation on the ceiling and walls in mine and honestly it works great for me. No issues with humidity either.

Who is your builder?

 

[DoubleDResources]

Nice building. BTW I am a spray foam contractor and code requires an ignition barrier between foam and living space. This can be 1/2' drywall, other approved sheeting, and they make a 15 minute ignition barrier paint that can be sprayed on via airless.

 

[gearheads78]

OK I have read every thread for the last 6 months with the word "insulation" in a search and I am more confused now than before

If I go with closed cell spray for the roof do I need to add vents or leave it all sealed up? It seem like ever time I think I understand the condensation issue I opened another thread and it had a different thing to say about it. If I use foam board on the walls can I attach it (glue?) directly to the metal sides or do I have to space it out some how. I am not looking to frame out the walls and sheetrock. I just want to get this done so I can move in and work on car projects again. All my equipment has been stuffed in a two car garage I can't even walk through for 4 months now I am going crazy.

 

[DoubleDResources]

Seal it up. Don't vent the shop. If you insulate the entire shop you won't have any condensation problems.

 

[whitejeeptj]

Well, I am building a 30x56x14 pole building that 30x40 will be used as a camp/house. I struggled with wrapping or not wrapping the building before the metal went on with foil faced bubble wrap. I ended up only doing the garage part 16x30 with the wrap. Once I get the plumbing, electrical and slab poured I will have 5" of open cell on the roof and 4" of open cell on the walls sealing up the 30x40 living space. My high bid was 7500 and my low bid is 4600. The 4600 guy came recommended, so he will get the job when the time comes. This is going around Toledo Bend on the LA side.

 

[moss9994]

Seal it up. Don't vent the shop. If you insulate the entire shop you won't have any condensation problems.

+1 on that advice

 

[semi75]

Well, I am building a 30x56x14 pole building that 30x40 will be used as a camp/house. I struggled with wrapping or not wrapping the building before the metal went on with foil faced bubble wrap. I ended up only doing the garage part 16x30 with the wrap. Once I get the plumbing, electrical and slab poured I will have 5" of open cell on the roof and 4" of open cell on the walls sealing up the 30x40 living space. My high bid was 7500 and my low bid is 4600. The 4600 guy came recommended, so he will get the job when the time comes. This is going around Toledo Bend on the LA side.

White is that a metal sided building or post frame construction (pole barm) with plywood and vinyl? I have always been told open cell on a metal sided building is a bad idea.

 

[DoubleDResources]

Closed cell is the way to go on a metal building. You don't need to apply a vapor retarder element(in cold climate) with closed cell and it really ties the panels together. It really is amazing how much stronger it makes the panels.

 

[gearheads78]

If anyone close has any 4 x 4 square tubing I could sure use some.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1415076#post1415076

 

[Kriilin]

You may want to consider Prodex: http://www.insulation4less.com/ I bought some, will be putting it up this summer. I'm building the "Area 51" garage, I have a thread in the garage gallery section. I think it would work really well for a hot climate. Radiant heat is the big killer in steel buildings in summer, plus it's a vapor barrier and fire retardant.

 

[Falcon67]

Everybody out here that insulates a metal building seems to use vinyl backed on the roof and walls or spray foam. Anything else invites and indoor rain storm during extreme weather changes. And north/west Texas is all about extreme weather changes.

 

[paris_tj]

I am in Paris Texas, and my 30x40 pole bard I used Double Bubble radiant barrier which is like a R5 I think. Then I framed the walls and installed R19 Batts. So Like a R24 for walls. I then blow in insulation in the ceiling, yes I built a ceiling, to a about R38. So far, it is holding about 20 degrees below outside temp in the hot part of the day. I hope it does as good when it gets to 100+.

 

[35mastr]

I am in Paris Texas, and my 30x40 pole bard I used Double Bubble radiant barrier which is like a R5 I think. Then I framed the walls and installed R19 Batts. So Like a R24 for walls. I then blow in insulation in the ceiling, yes I built a ceiling, to a about R38. So far, it is holding about 20 degrees below outside temp in the hot part of the day. I hope it does as good when it gets to 100+.

Any info on the double bubble radiant barrier? Where did you get it? Also you dont mention where you put it. Was it on the roof or in the walls.

 

[paris_tj]

It was installed when it was built on the walls and roof. I have seen it at my local building supply house. NOt sure where all you can get it.

 

[whitejeeptj]

White is that a metal sided building or post frame construction (pole barm) with plywood and vinyl? I have always been told open cell on a metal sided building is a bad idea.

It is a metal sided pole barn. I spoke to 4 different spf contractors and 3 of them would not spray anything other than open cell. The other one was shady and would not give much advice.
The three main reasons for not going with closed cell were; 1. cost almost twice as much as open cell; 2. close cell could possibly cause the metal to warp/buckle over the girts causing the "ribbed look"; 3. closed cell is so rigid that when the building expands and contracts over the years WILL cause cracks in the foam allowing condensation and water wicking at the cracks.

Two of those contractors flat refused the job if I wanted anything other than open cell. These same contractors do spray closed cell on other jobs quite often. According to the "pros" I dealt with if the open cell is sprayed on thick enough NO condensation will occur.

 

[DOUGD]

I am near you in Denton TX. Had my building spray foamed and the foam painted several years ago by a outfit in Keller Tx. It is pricey but it has held up well and it really makes for a very quite and solid building as it is essentially glued together.It is easy to heat and cool.Long term I feel it was worth the extra cost.

 

[gearheads78]

I have pretty much talked myself into the spray foam. I just have to wait on my contractor to finish a few things on the building then I can schedule the foam.

 

[stevefasano]

removed due to

 

[sdetweil]

What should I do? I am about out of money building my new building so I need to either do a little at a time or find a way to save some money.
I don't plan on doing A/C any time soon if ever but I would like to insulate to keep the heat from building up inside as much as possible.

My builder and a few people I talk to say spray foam but its super expensive as you guys know. I have also been told that its not fire retardent and needs to be covered by drywall which I didn't intend on doing. Since I am always creating a lot of sparks or welding is this a problem with the spray foam?

I was thinking maybe do the spray foam on the roof now and do the board type with foil on the walls as I can afford it?

What have you done and what do you wish you did different?

I just finished a 30x40 near Austin, and used the vinyl coated batts. you have to put them on before the metal skin. I did the walls, but had someone do the roof for me..

Sam

 

[davidh73750]

what is open and closed cell?? I am in OK and want mine to be warm in the winter for sure.

 

[gearheads78]

I ended up going with closed cell foam. I talked with a few people that had done it that said they would do it again in a heart beat. I hated to spend the money but as much as I have already spent it was not a huge increase in percentage. Now I just have to get it wired so I can use it.

 

[Ace98]

Nice looking shop. I would also like to know who the builder is. Im looking at having one built within the next year and im in the Dallas area. Thanks

 

[gearheads78]

Nice looking shop. I would also like to know who the builder is. Im looking at having one built within the next year and im in the Dallas area. Thanks

I would not usey builder again or recommend him. I have several leaks at the top of my walls. He has already been back out once and made one spot better but it still leaks there and several other spots in the heavy storms we have been having. I am about to the point I am just going to fix it myself.

 

[David79z28]

I would not usey builder again or recommend him. I have several leaks at the top of my walls. QUOTE]


I had problems also!!! Maybe we should list the builder so ACE98 doesn't get screwed.

Mine was Heartand Steel Buildings out of Tulsa. Don't use them!! They bought the building kit from Nucor who has TERRIBLE SERVICE!!!!

I hired Diamond J Construction who did a great job fixing Heartland's mistakes. 972-658-4341. He buys from Mueller...

 

[davidh73750]

I would not usey builder again or recommend him. I have several leaks at the top of my walls. QUOTE]


I had problems also!!! Maybe we should list the builder so ACE98 doesn't get screwed.

Mine was Heartand Steel Buildings out of Tulsa. Don't use them!! They bought the building kit from Nucor who has TERRIBLE SERVICE!!!!

I hired Diamond J Construction who did a great job fixing Heartland's mistakes. 972-658-4341. He buys from Mueller...

Yikes. I would not use them. Looks like the work of a half drunken crew

 

[Ace98]

Thanks for the info. Im thinking that maybe we should build it ourself so we know its done right. We have the ability just not so much time so it will just have to take a little longer.

 

[gearheads78]

I would not usey builder again or recommend him. I have several leaks at the top of my walls. QUOTE]


I had problems also!!! Maybe we should list the builder so ACE98 doesn't get screwed.

Mine was Heartand Steel Buildings out of Tulsa. Don't use them!! They bought the building kit from Nucor who has TERRIBLE SERVICE!!!!

I hired Diamond J Construction who did a great job fixing Heartland's mistakes. 972-658-4341. He buys from Mueller...

I am still trying to resolve my issues and so far my builder is not avoiding me. I am going to wait a little while and see what happens. He is blaming the sub that did the gutters but I still am holding him accountable since he hired and paid them.

What it comes down to is there is no eave flashing to cover up the open tops of the walls. The gutters they installed don't close up at the back either so it a hard driving blowing rain like he have had every day for more than a week it blows right behind the gutters and down the trickes down inside of the walls. If I did not have went spray insulation I would have water falls

 

[gearheads78]

Thanks for the info. Im thinking that maybe we should build it ourself so we know its done right. We have the ability just not so much time so it will just have to take a little longer.

That what I would do if I had to do it again. I interveiwed at lease 5 builders and picked who I thought was the best and in the long run I still has not very satisfied. I am just so ready to get back to paying with cars and have this all behind me.

 

[cdenton]

I will vouch for the quality of the Mueller buildings. They have done mine right. Could have used a little more detail on the instructions, but John (sales guy) was helpful and got answers asap.

 

[Beaumont67]

You may want to consider Prodex: http://www.insulation4less.com/ I bought some, will be putting it up this summer. I'm building the "Area 51" garage, I have a thread in the garage gallery section. I think it would work really well for a hot climate. Radiant heat is the big killer in steel buildings in summer, plus it's a vapor barrier and fire retardant.

Thanks for the link - great advise from all here:

I plan to use the Prodex 5mm (1/4 inch) closed cell polyethylene foam sandwiched between two 99% pure aluminum PLUS Roxul (RockWool) bat insulation - in the sun room house addition I put up last year...just got to finish the inside now.

------------------------------------------------
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1965 Malibu S/S, 1966 Beaumont Custom original paint, 1967 Beaumont Custom, 1967 Beaumont Custom original paint, 1967 Beaumont 396-350HP Sport Deluxe M21-411's - SOLD 1970 Judge

 

[moss9994]

I will vouch for Mueller being a stand up company as far as supplying the metal. But I did use one of the builders they recommended and they were bad.
I decided that next time I have one built I am going to hold some money back until it rains and I see what happens.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

There should have been an L shaped piece of trim along the top of the wall sheet to close off the top, and then foam strips cut to the profile of the roof sheet. This closes the openings left by the corrugations.

Charles

 

[green.bubbly]

I will vouch for the quality of the Mueller buildings. They have done mine right. Could have used a little more detail on the instructions, but John (sales guy) was helpful and got answers asap.

Same thing here. Love my Meuller but the instructions were a little lacking for a first time DIYer. Very good sales guy.

I will go wih open cell more than likely as livng in Louisiana, we deal with the moisture in the winter time issue as well. Of course I have to get the thing finished first. It has been so freakin windy. I already had a sheet fly into my car door last Saturday.