Metal Lathe Anyone?

[Toolhorder]

Looking to get a metal lathe to make parts. Have NO idea how to use a lathe or what's out there new and used. Anyone got any suggestions? I have used brake lathes about 15 years but I know it's not the same. I've done some research already but not quite where I want to be yet.

I have looked at around and noticed on other forums that it's kind of like tools here. You have American quality lathes and import not so good machines. Some people don't mind imports and others hate em.

I don't have 220 in the garage so I need a 110 unit. What are my opinions there? I mainly am looking at making motorcycle parts, tools and messing around.

 

[Bolster]

I badly want a lathe. All I have is a mill. Chances are high that I will buy a (ugh) Chinese lathe due to their availability and their making the size I can fit in my shop. As you know, there's better and worse Chinese. I would love big American iron. But what's likely in the cards for me, in this obonomy, is a Grizzly (<--click the link) rebranded Sieg of some sort (Sieg is one of the more respected Chinee brands), for about $1K.

You have my full encouragement to get American Iron if you can.

Unless you're very knowledgeable, it's easy to get rooked buying a used lathe. So either take someone with you that can evaluate a used lathe, or buy new. After taking two college level machine shop courses, I know enough to know I don't know nearly enough to buy a used lathe on my own.

May I recommend taking a metal working class at your local Junior College before buying.

If you go the Chinee route (which I am not encouraging you to do), buy it with the full knowledge you will be dicking with it to get it just right. Buy it from an importer with a reputation for standing behind the machine (such as Grizzly, not HarF). My Sieg X3 mill took hours of cleaning and adjusting and tramming, but it's pretty accurate now, can usually make a cut within 3 thou of where I want it. Also join one of the Yahoo groups for whichever lathe you buy.

POST PHOTOS of what you bought, so I can enjoy it vicariously!

 

[Toolhorder]

I badly want a lathe. All I have is a mill. Chances are high that I will buy a (ugh) Chinese lathe due to their availability and their making the size I can fit in my shop. I would love big American iron. But what's likely in the cards for me is a Grizzly rebranded Sieg of some sort, for about $1K.

You have my full encouragement to get American Iron if you can.

Unless you're very knowledgeable, it's easy to get rooked buying a used lathe. So either take someone with you that can evaluate a used lathe, or buy new.

May I recommend taking a metal working class at your local Junior College before buying.

Well I want American and old for a lathe to be honest. I've been watching Craigslist for a min. trying to find one. Space isn't my issue it's the power requirement. I think I can figure it out without a class. I don't like going to community college classes much. Too dumbed down for me and I don't want to cover safety for a month either.

 

[Bolster]

OK, well, good for wanting used American. Remember the JC class will be mostly laboratory. Mine was mostly just me and the machines, and the instructor when I had a question. It was great.

 

[rsanter]

what size of stuff do you want to do?
that will determine what size machine you need
if the lathe is 3 phase you can get a VFD to convert to 3ph
you can use 110v to power up to a 1hp 3ph motor
I live in visalia. if you find yourself in the area I would be happy to show you some stuff

bob

 

[NAYLOR]

I would suggest learning how to use a lathe before purchasing one. The best way would be watch someone that knows how to actually setup and operate one correctly or to take a class at a local college. I am in the same boat as Bolster; even though I can operate one, I have no business having one in my shop. Remember, although the technology to use a lathe is rather old, the machines themselves are complex.

For the recreational user, the cost of purchasing one, along with upkeep such a tooling and fluid, is rather prohibitive. It is also worth mentioning these things are HEAVY and the proper way to move even a small lathe is with a fork lift.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get a lathe (I would love to have one, btw), but rather do your homework before dropping a grand on something this large only to find out you don't even know how to set up the tooling. Good luck!

 

[Toolhorder]

what size of stuff do you want to do?
that will determine what size machine you need
if the lathe is 3 phase you can get a VFD to convert to 3ph
you can use 110v to power up to a 1hp 3ph motor
I live in visalia. if you find yourself in the area I would be happy to show you some stuff

bob

That would be cool. I'm in Sacramento. I'm not really sure about size I'm mainly wanting to make aluminum rearsets for a vintage RD motorcycle. I wanted to make a shift knob from Alum. too. The bigger the better I'm thinking. I'd rather spend a little more and get a bigger machine.

 

[Toolhorder]

I would suggest learning how to use a lathe before purchasing one. The best way would be watch someone that knows how to actually setup and operate one correctly or to take a class at a local college. I am in the same boat as Bolster; even though I can operate one, I have no business having one in my shop. Remember, although the technology to use a lathe is rather old, the machines themselves are complex.

For the recreational user, the cost of purchasing one, along with upkeep such a tooling and fluid, is rather prohibitive. It is also worth mentioning these things are HEAVY and the proper way to move even a small lathe is with a fork lift.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get a lathe (I would love to have one, btw), but rather do your homework before dropping a grand on something this large only to find out you don't even know how to set up the tooling. Good luck!

Yeah I'd like to make a couple things on someone else's first. My wife works with a co-worker whose husband has a machine shop with VERY nice old machines. I'd love to get some time on them. I offered to "clean" his machines once but he didn't say anything. I feel bad his machines are awesome but they are working machines full of chips and ****. Was hoping he'd let me clean em up and show me something.

How much does it cost to keep it running? I noticed most people make their own tooling and I can't imagine the cooling fluid costing that much.

 

[Bolster]

I am in the same boat as Bolster; even though I can operate one, I have no business having one in my shop.

Hey! That's not my boat! All I'm admitting to, is not knowing enough about lathes to buy a used one. But I need one in my shop, it is sorely missed!

How much does it cost to keep it running? I noticed most people make their own tooling and I can't imagine the cooling fluid costing that much.

The rule of thumb is that you spend the same on tooling you spent on the lathe. Once you have your tooling, ongoing costs are minimal.

With luck you'll buy a good used lathe with tooling included.

NAYLOR makes a good point; prepare for moving the weight. Even a little machine will be 300-400 lbs. Sounds like what you want is a half ton or more.

Lathes don't have to have big powerful engines so you very well may be able to do just fine with 110.

 

[scooterseats]

I have an Enco combination mill/lathe and for occasional nonprofessional use it does okay. It has a fairly large Swing for a bench top machine and will handle a lot of different functions providing you take the time to set it up correctly for the job. I also have an old Atlas 6" bench top lathe that is more precision but will not handle as large of projects as the Enco.
I have owned the Atlas lathe for 25 years and the Enco for 12 and cannot stress how many doors are opened when you get your first lathe and learn to utilize it.
One additional comment, they should nearly give the lathes away considering how much the tooling costs!

 

[Toolhorder]

Y

Hey! That's not my boat! All I'm admitting to, is not knowing enough about lathes to buy a used one. But I need one in my shop, it is sorely missed!



The rule of thumb is that you spend the same on tooling you spent on the lathe. Once you have your tooling, ongoing costs are minimal.

With luck you'll buy a good used lathe with tooling included.

NAYLOR makes a good point; prepare for moving the weight. Even a little machine will be 300-400 lbs. Sounds like what you want is a ton or more.

Lathes don't have to have big powerful engines so you very well may be able to do just fine with 110.

Ya, I'd like a big un machine if I can get one. I think I'd be okay with the weight. I move 1000 lb. machines all the time for my vending business. I'd like to keep it under a 1000 if possible but that's only because my liftgate can only go that high or a little higher.

 

[ZRX61]

$1500 will get ya this one:

It's big AND old... 1937 Southbend 13x40... near Palmdale...It weighs damn near 1900lb.... 3 & 4 jaw chucks, face plate, taper attachment (worth $500 by itself), 5C collet holder, center rest etc...

and its 110v

 

[Toolhorder]

I have an Enco combination mill/lathe and for occasional nonprofessional use it does okay. It has a fairly large Swing for a bench top machine and will handle a lot of different functions providing you take the time to set it up correctly for the job. I also have an old Atlas 6" bench top lathe that is more precision but will not handle as large of projects as the Enco.
I have owned the Atlas lathe for 25 years and the Enco for 12 and cannot stress how many doors are opened when you get your first lathe and learn to utilize it.
One additional comment, they should nearly give the lathes away considering how much the tooling costs!

How about this one?

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/1984487410.html

 

[madjack]

Watch Craigs list, weekly recycler papers and my favorite, the local TV station free online sales adds. Salt Lake has KSL-TV classifieds. I found a Monarch 16"x60" lathe in good shape for $400 last month with taper and tooling, and a combo deal on a Pexto stomp shear and a finger break for $1000 for the pair on KSL.
Be ready with cash in hand and don't be shy about making an offer. I'm 600 miles from Salt Lake but for the right deal it's worth the trip. The deals are out there, you just need to do a bit of digging. You might even talk to some local machine shop guys. They usually know who has upgraded locally and has the replaced machines out back under tarps. Don't be afraid of 3 phase stuff. That's the stuff you can usually get real cheap. Easy to change to single phase motors for not a lot of $$$

 

[X1 Mike]

May I recommend taking a metal working class at your local Junior College before buying.

This is the best advice you will get. The most important thing in learning to be a good machinist is learning the fundementals. The only two ways I know to learn fundamentals are school and going to work in a machine shop. If you just noodle around until you make a good part the chances are you won't know why.

Two other pluses for school is you may meet someone that has a line on used equipment and you may find out you don't like running a lathe.

 

[Toolhorder]

This is the best advice you will get. The most important thing in learning to be a good machinist is learning the fundementals. The only two ways I know to learn fundamentals are school and going to work in a machine shop. If you just noodle around until you make a good part the chances are you won't know why.

Two other pluses for school is you may meet someone that has a line on used equipment and you may find out you don't like running a lathe.

I'd like to but I just don't have the patience anymore. I'm 31 going on 70. I should have been born in the 50's, I'm not a typicial 80's kid. I did both Automotive tech and Motorcycle tech at local community colleges in my area and while I'm grateful for what I learned (cheaply I might add) the fact is I'm a little too smart for my own good. I learn fast and I get frustrated and bored easily if the class stalls because someone can't get it fast enough. I bet I can pick up the basics in one sitting.

I got a question about used machines...Can you just attach a dial indicator to the chuck, run the machine and see how tight it is still ? What should you look for when looking at a used machine?

 

[rodm1]

What kind of accuracy are you needing? Dues it need to just look close or do you have a tolerance requirement?

Look for a lathe with large threw hole most are small and many times can be a problem. Used machines are usually worn and don't cut striate do to ware. If you can use a less then perfect machine a good used American machine would be the way to go.

 

[Toolhorder]

What kind of accuracy are you needing? Dues it need to just look close or do you have a tolerance requirement?

Look for a lathe with large threw hole most are small and many times can be a problem. Used machines are usually worn and don't cut striate do to ware. If you can use a less then perfect machine a good used American machine would be the way to go.

I'm sure it wouldn't need to be super accurate. I'm making rearsets for my feet to sit on not rocket ship parts but I would like it to look good to the eye. Nobody will pull out a mic and measure my parts. Same with a shift knob. It's more for me to make and express myself I guess. I'm into Cafe style bikes and want to make a lot of my own parts if possible. Wanted to make grips too now that I'm thinking about it. Have a few ideas in mind.
Also I wanted to do knurling to the pegs of the rearsets so I guess I need a special tool or tooling for that?

 

[JohnFreeman]

Keep an eye out for an Atlas...

 

[GrantCee]

I got a question about used machines...Can you just attach a dial indicator to the chuck, run the machine and see how tight it is still ? What should you look for when looking at a used machine?

No.

There are a number of things to look at. First you need to determine the runout at the headstock, and without a lot of experience it's easy to confuse bearing issues with chuck problems.

The first test is to remove the chuck and attach a test indicator (NOT a dial indicator!) to the bed. Zero the indicator on a smooth spot in the spindle's through hole; disengage all the gears, and rotate the spindle by hand while watching the indicator dial. More than .001" indicates badly worn headstock bearings. I won't even look at a lathe that can't hold at least .0005.

Now you need to remount the chuck and check it. Take a 1/2" reamer blank and chuck about 3/4 of it. Zero your test indicator on the surface of the blank, and again rotate the spindle. Even a very good 3-jaw chuck when new may have .0005" of concentricity error; if it's been worn at all that could zoom to .005" or much worse.

Now you need to check the carriage and ways. If you can't make a perfectly smooth cut, this test is meaningless. You need a piece of steel about an inch in diameter and about 18" long. You need to turn it between centers, because any error in headstock bearings on in the chuck will mask problems!

Make a cut the full length of the piece, and measure the diameter at the head and tailstock with a micrometer (NOT a caliper of any make or type). On a good machine, they will be within .001". If not, you need to know whether it's the center in the tailstock, a loose carriage, or worn ways. This is where you need the advice of an expert who can tell.

Of course this doesn't even touch on examining all the headstock gears, the leadscrew, etc.

It's easy to get in way over your head, and waste a lot of money very quickly, unless you know what you're doing. "Figuring it out as you go" is not a sound strategy.

 

[Bolster]

Damn, Grant, that is a quality posting. Every time I start getting irritated at the dross on GJ, somebody comes along and posts a gold nugget like this one. Copy for my permanent files. Thank you sir.

Two other pluses for school is you may meet someone that has a line on used equipment and you may find out you don't like running a lathe.

Good point. I never could have chosen the correct mill for my needs, and gotten it running, without meeting other students and teachers who pointed me in the right direction, told me how tight to adjust it, how much and where to stone it, how to lube it, welded up my mill table, helped me lift it, told me where to buy the best accessories for the least money, and so on. It was truly a community project by the time it was up and running in my shop. And that was a NEW, SMALL mill. There were other guys rebuilding venerable American Arn in other corners of the shop and those rebuilds were taking years. To rebuild a lathe or mill takes a lot of arcane know-how.

 

[Toolhorder]

Damn, Grant, that is a quality posting. Every time I start getting irritated at the dross on GJ, somebody comes along and posts a gold nugget like this one. Copy for my permanent files. Thank you sir.



Good point. I never could have chosen the correct mill for my needs, and gotten it running, without meeting other students and teachers who pointed me in the right direction, told me how tight to adjust it, how much and where to stone it, how to lube it, welded up my mill table, helped me lift it, told me where to buy the best accessories for the least money, and so on. It was truly a community project by the time it was up and running in my shop. And that was a NEW, SMALL mill. There were other guys rebuilding venerable American Arn in other corners of the shop and those rebuilds were taking years. To rebuild a lathe or mill takes a lot of arcane know-how.

Sounds like I just need to find a good teacher or school. So far with the colleges around here I'm stuck with the teachers who have the knowledge but are dumbing it down for the kids that are in the class fresh out of high school.

 

[Jack90210]

I just sold my South Bend Light Ten with some tooling for $500. These machines are built to last and last. Pretty easy to set up, rebuild, or buy gears etc. for, as there's a huge online following.

 

[Lotek]

A suggestion, look for a Southbend or Atlas "hobbyist" type lathe. 9"-10"x40" or so. Should be big enough to do what you are looking to do, but wasn't run daily in a production shop or beat to death in a school. Tooling will be cheaper, and they are a lot easier to move around. I found a 50's vintage 9" Southbend mounted on a solid cabinet at an estate sale that looked like new mechanically.

 

[X1 Mike]

I'd like to but I just don't have the patience anymore. I'm 31 going on 70. I should have been born in the 50's, I'm not a typicial 80's kid. I did both Automotive tech and Motorcycle tech at local community colleges in my area and while I'm grateful for what I learned (cheaply I might add) the fact is I'm a little too smart for my own good. I learn fast and I get frustrated and bored easily if the class stalls because someone can't get it fast enough. I bet I can pick up the basics in one sitting.

I got a question about used machines...Can you just attach a dial indicator to the chuck, run the machine and see how tight it is still ? What should you look for when looking at a used machine?

If you learn fast a good instructor will take you under his wings and give you more advanced projects. I was a machinist for all of my working life except the last 5 years and I’m thinking of taking a class just so I can have a machine to run. Maybe try asking if your wife’s friend needs some cheap part time help. Grant covered what to look for pretty good, if it will cutr straight that’s half the battle.

Side note: for making rearsets you would probably be better served with a milling machine.

 

[OccupantRJ]

How about this one?

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/1984487410.html

I'd rather have the South Bend.......

 

[OccupantRJ]

I'd like to but I just don't have the patience anymore.

Your lack of patience will be your downfall in machining. I NEVER met a hyper machinist.

 

[larry_g]

I'll add a bit here. If you come across a Logan/Wards or Sheldon these are also good lathes in the hobbiest class. I was also told that this will be your first lathe by and old guy and he is correct. I am on lathes 5&6 right now. Once you get into the 'circle' you will find it like any other hobby. You can paddle around on the low end for a few hundred bucks or have no upper end to the dollars spent to have bragging rights. And a whole lot in the middle.

One thing to keep in mind is that most lathes will retain there value. That $1500 SB above if in fair condition and a good set of tooling could be a good buy. Try it for awhile and if you don't like it you will get most if not all of your money out of it. I have come to believe that someone in your position should buy the first cheap lathe that may come along. After running it for a time you will find out what is lacking, what you really need, and how better to judge the next lathe you buy.

My first lathe was something of a lark. It was advertised in the company paper by a fellow employee. It was a 6" atlas with a 3 jaw, tail stock, and a couple of tool holders and a bench. It didn't take long join a couple of machining forums, ask questions, play with the machine and keep going up the learning curve. I paid $400 for that machine and learned a lot and sole it for $400. I got a Logan 10" and thought I was in heaven, for a while. Soon found the limitations of that machine. I went throught a couple more machines and now have a 10" and a 13" Sheldon. They are fair machines. The 10" is in real good shape and used for finer work. The 13" is for roughing and larger work.

So that is my story. I also agree with the CC route. Our local collage had an evening class that was basically an open shop with the instructor giving individual help as needed. It was good to try a varity of machines and different types of tooling.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ZRX61]

I went throught a couple more machines and now have a 10" and a 13" Sheldon.

Yup, they tend to multiply.... (says the guy with 16 vises...)

 

[murph64]

And don't automatically rule out 3 phase machines. Run a VFD on one, and speed changes are as easy as turning down the volume on a radio.



Andy

 

[rsanter]

And don't automatically rule out 3 phase machines. Run a VFD on one, and speed changes are as easy as turning down the volume on a radio.



Andy

in my opinion 3ph is what you want so you can hook up a vfd and have the variable speed
you can get a vfd that runs off 110v to power up to a 1hp 3ph motor

bob

 

[GrantCee]

Damn, Grant, that is a quality posting. Every time I start getting irritated at the dross on GJ, somebody comes along and posts a gold nugget like this one. Copy for my permanent files. Thank you sir.

Thanks for the compliment!

I was in a hurry on that post, and I forgot one important thing: when making a test cut and finding a taper (discrepancy in diameter at the ends) it could also be a lathe that is slightly out of level. If the front and rear of the bed are not perfectly level in respect to each other you'll get a cutting error. How much out of level? A thousandth difference will cause double that error in cutting diameter.

So, an error in turned diameter COULD BE a mis-installed front center, worn bearings on a live center, misaligned/adjusted tailstock, worn ways, loose apron, bad backlash adjustment on the cross slide, out of level, and I'm sure there's something I'm still forgetting. It's been a long day.

Knowing which it is, or what the combination may be, is where knowledge and experience come in.

When buying a used lathe, a good test indicator is your best friend.

(P.S.: Got any Dapper Dan?)

 

[bobadame]

If you want to make rear sets and gear shift knobs any lathe will work.

 

[Stick Figure]

I'd like to but I just don't have the patience anymore. I'm 31 going on 70. I should have been born in the 50's, I'm not a typicial 80's kid. I did both Automotive tech and Motorcycle tech at local community colleges in my area and while I'm grateful for what I learned (cheaply I might add) the fact is I'm a little too smart for my own good. I learn fast and I get frustrated and bored easily if the class stalls because someone can't get it fast enough. I bet I can pick up the basics in one sitting.

I'm about the same age, and a very close attitude. While i don't think a class is 100% necessary if you don't have at least someone to answer questions for you, i would recommend the same thing the others have.

I myself lucked into a 70's era Emco compact 8. It was practically brand new and i got it with enough hand tools to make it worthwhile even if it had been a boat anchor.

Good luck and you can put me on the list of people in southern part of the state that can possibly go take a look at some of the units on craigslist for you if need be. I know there are a ton on there recently but a larger one isn't in my future just yet.

 

[RAYJAY]

How about this one?

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/1984487410.html

that lathe here in PA would be over 2,000 easy they want 1,500 for scrap iron and get it here