His wife probably nagging him to get rid of it. He posts it online and says nobody is interested so he may as well keep it... Then again those listings are usually for a million dollars or something screwy.
^^^
Metal lathe
- Thread starter chaosracing
- Start date
His wife probably nagging him to get rid of it. He posts it online and says nobody is interested so he may as well keep it... Then again those listings are usually for a million dollars or something screwy.
^^^
John in OH
Well-known member
Some years ago I read some advice from a guy regarding the hobby of collecting old farm tractors:
1) Try to collect tractors of only one brand or color ... that way your wife has difficulty identifying them.
2) Never tell her exactly how many you own.
3) Always pay cash so there's no record for her to see
4) Never store them all in a single location (separating them makes it more difficult to count how many you own)
5) Keep shuffling them back and forth between the storage locations ... just to keep her confused
6) Every once in awhile, buy one that you don't really want ... then when she nags about all your tractors you can sell that one to make her happy!!
Aaron_W
Well-known member
Tooling can easily exceed the value of the lathe, so do not gloss over what it comes with or assume a cheaper price is always the better deal.
I've seen many ads where my first thought is that guy is dreaming until I see all that it comes with, and in some cases I change my view all the way to that wow guy is giving it away.
Some tooling is more critical than others, yes you will want a 3 and 4 jaw chuck, but unless it has a weird spindle you can buy chucks.
A steady rest is very dependent on the machine, both brand and size, sometimes even model specific. For example a steady rest for a Southbend 10K "light 10" probably won't work on a Southbend 10L "heavy 10" because of differences in the bed and swing (Heavy 10 is actually a 10-1/2" swing vs an actual 10" on the "light 10).
A quick change gear box is very handy, but if you get a change gear type you want the gears that go with it, buying them separately adds up.
Some accessories can be worth more than the lathe due to rarity / desirability.
A 9-10" swing is a very nice and handy size, while still being pretty compact.There are some 11" lathes which are to me a real sweet spot as far as size often having the short length of the 9-10" size but often comparable to a 12-13" lathe in power and capacity, but it is not a common size and may be a bit of an orphan parts wise.
Another thing that is nice with the smaller bench top lathes is they are pretty easy to sell if you later decide it isn't big enough. Almost anybody can find room in their garage for one, which isn't true with the larger lathes so you have a wide open market of people looking for a first lathe. If you buy well, you almost have to try and lose money reselling it.
For vintage US lathes Southbend, Logan (PowrKraft - sold through Montgomery Wards), Atlas (Craftsman - Sold through Sears) and Clausing are common and parts are easy to fairly easy to find. Atlas / Clausing (they merged) is still in business and offers some support for their old machines. Logan no longer makes machine equipment, but they do provide parts and technical support.
There are tons of less well known brands, most pretty good machines but finding parts, literature etc may be more difficult.
I see a lot of people who really fuss about the price, and yes, I'd rather pay $500 than $1500 too, I'm a bit of a miser so I love a good deal. However if everything but price clicks with a machine, think about it don't just walk away. A vintage lathe will probably outlive you. Even paying an extra $1000 is peanuts over the long run. That said, there will always be another one, so don't jump on the first thing that looks nice if the price seems wrong.
Don't worry about not knowing lot about running a lathe, there are tons of youtube videos, books etc available. I had a little bit of experience running a wood lathe in highschool and have pretty much been self taught running machine tools. After 3-ish years now I almost look like I know what I'm doing and I still have all my fingers.
I've seen many ads where my first thought is that guy is dreaming until I see all that it comes with, and in some cases I change my view all the way to that wow guy is giving it away.
Some tooling is more critical than others, yes you will want a 3 and 4 jaw chuck, but unless it has a weird spindle you can buy chucks.
A steady rest is very dependent on the machine, both brand and size, sometimes even model specific. For example a steady rest for a Southbend 10K "light 10" probably won't work on a Southbend 10L "heavy 10" because of differences in the bed and swing (Heavy 10 is actually a 10-1/2" swing vs an actual 10" on the "light 10).
A quick change gear box is very handy, but if you get a change gear type you want the gears that go with it, buying them separately adds up.
Some accessories can be worth more than the lathe due to rarity / desirability.
A 9-10" swing is a very nice and handy size, while still being pretty compact.There are some 11" lathes which are to me a real sweet spot as far as size often having the short length of the 9-10" size but often comparable to a 12-13" lathe in power and capacity, but it is not a common size and may be a bit of an orphan parts wise.
Another thing that is nice with the smaller bench top lathes is they are pretty easy to sell if you later decide it isn't big enough. Almost anybody can find room in their garage for one, which isn't true with the larger lathes so you have a wide open market of people looking for a first lathe. If you buy well, you almost have to try and lose money reselling it.
For vintage US lathes Southbend, Logan (PowrKraft - sold through Montgomery Wards), Atlas (Craftsman - Sold through Sears) and Clausing are common and parts are easy to fairly easy to find. Atlas / Clausing (they merged) is still in business and offers some support for their old machines. Logan no longer makes machine equipment, but they do provide parts and technical support.
There are tons of less well known brands, most pretty good machines but finding parts, literature etc may be more difficult.
I see a lot of people who really fuss about the price, and yes, I'd rather pay $500 than $1500 too, I'm a bit of a miser so I love a good deal. However if everything but price clicks with a machine, think about it don't just walk away. A vintage lathe will probably outlive you. Even paying an extra $1000 is peanuts over the long run. That said, there will always be another one, so don't jump on the first thing that looks nice if the price seems wrong.
Don't worry about not knowing lot about running a lathe, there are tons of youtube videos, books etc available. I had a little bit of experience running a wood lathe in highschool and have pretty much been self taught running machine tools. After 3-ish years now I almost look like I know what I'm doing and I still have all my fingers.
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OP
chaosracing
Well-known member
Well the guy with the $750 lathe finally got back to me after my 3rd message. Supposedly someone was going to look at it first, but ghosted him. I am going to look at it in the morning tomorrow, but I will not have help and he can not help load onto my trailer. So I need to figure a way to load it if I buy it.
Thanks for the article on buying a lathe. I read over it (probably will again) and it gives quite a bit of info. I am going to take the same approach that I do with vehicles. There are others out there and if something does not feel right, I will walk away from it.
Thanks for the article on buying a lathe. I read over it (probably will again) and it gives quite a bit of info. I am going to take the same approach that I do with vehicles. There are others out there and if something does not feel right, I will walk away from it.
Do you have an engine crane? I bought a harbor freight one just for lifting my machines and unloading them from trailers.
Take some wood blocks, a good floor/bottle jack, and lots of heavy straps to secure it. Move the carriage and the tailstock away from the headstock when you lift it, then move them to center the load once on your trailer.
Double check everything before making any moves, and be sure you have a plan in case things get away from you. Don't try and stop a runaway machine, it will try to kill you.
If you aren't comfortable then hire a rigger to move the machine, or a fork lift operator to load the machine on and off your trailer.
Good luck tomorrow, i'm excited to hear how it goes!
Take some wood blocks, a good floor/bottle jack, and lots of heavy straps to secure it. Move the carriage and the tailstock away from the headstock when you lift it, then move them to center the load once on your trailer.
Double check everything before making any moves, and be sure you have a plan in case things get away from you. Don't try and stop a runaway machine, it will try to kill you.
If you aren't comfortable then hire a rigger to move the machine, or a fork lift operator to load the machine on and off your trailer.
Good luck tomorrow, i'm excited to hear how it goes!
paulsomlo
Well-known member
It looks like a Heavy 10, in which case you may be able to dismantle it and take it home in pieces. You'll want a helper for the bed and the base, and maybe some of the larger pieces.
Aaron_W
Well-known member
I have a Powermatic / Logan 10" which is comparable to a SB Heavy 10. I disassembled it and moved it into my shop by myself using just a 2 ton engine hoist and an 800lb moving dolly / cart.
The bed was the toughest part, probably 350lbs and kind of awkward, it was amazing how much of an effect moving the tail stock had on balance. I could hand carry almost everything else.
$750 for a heavy 10 is a good deal if it isn't trashed.
OP
chaosracing
Well-known member
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Well I looked at the lathe, sadly I am sure I am going to pass on it. The guy selling it got with the house he bought back in July 2019. It was no longer hooked up to power and could not since the previous owner had it hard wired into a breaker box. The guy selling it knew less than I did about it even before I started asking questions on here. This machine appears to have been bought from South Bend by the previous owner as some of the paper work was still with it.........but the previous owner definitely used this machine.......alot.
The Good
Its a 10L lathe.
The Bad
Its in an unconditioned shed where it appears to have spent its life.
I could not here it run.
The way had alot of wear on one side only (the back way) and mainly in the middle of the bed.
I tried testing the bed with the tailstock as described in the article that was posted earlier. It chattered and was hard to move after a short distance. Also the wrench and nut were worn hard.
The handle and dial for the tool post needs to be replaced as it does not work properly. I can pull the dial about 3/16" away as shown in the picture.
I hand spun the spindle and did not like what I heard. Sounds like a bearing is dry and grinding.
The Ugly
There were 2 3 jaw and 1 4 jaw chucks, the 3 jaw were hard to operate and the 4 jaw is frozen in time.
No other gears for it besides what was on the machine already.
And the really ugly.......after moving the carriage, I found a large chunk missing from the one way and what appears to be a ground out spot on the other way.
Well I looked at the lathe, sadly I am sure I am going to pass on it. The guy selling it got with the house he bought back in July 2019. It was no longer hooked up to power and could not since the previous owner had it hard wired into a breaker box. The guy selling it knew less than I did about it even before I started asking questions on here. This machine appears to have been bought from South Bend by the previous owner as some of the paper work was still with it.........but the previous owner definitely used this machine.......alot.
The Good
Its a 10L lathe.
The Bad
Its in an unconditioned shed where it appears to have spent its life.
I could not here it run.
The way had alot of wear on one side only (the back way) and mainly in the middle of the bed.
I tried testing the bed with the tailstock as described in the article that was posted earlier. It chattered and was hard to move after a short distance. Also the wrench and nut were worn hard.
The handle and dial for the tool post needs to be replaced as it does not work properly. I can pull the dial about 3/16" away as shown in the picture.
I hand spun the spindle and did not like what I heard. Sounds like a bearing is dry and grinding.
The Ugly
There were 2 3 jaw and 1 4 jaw chucks, the 3 jaw were hard to operate and the 4 jaw is frozen in time.
No other gears for it besides what was on the machine already.
And the really ugly.......after moving the carriage, I found a large chunk missing from the one way and what appears to be a ground out spot on the other way.
Attachments
Honestly, that's not terrible. The dial on the hand wheels can be tightened, or replaced. There is a guy on Practical Machinist who can hook you up with dials.
The grinding marks on the bed ways are where they chucked up something large and it made contact with the ways. ******, but not a deal breaker.
The chucks have sat for a while and need to be disassembled, cleaned, then lubricated. I bet you could get them working again.
The spindle sounding crunchy is probably because the oil cups that lubricate the plain bearings in the spindle are empty. You need some lightweight oil in there (Mobile Vactra #10). Good news is they are easy to replace. Kits are sold online to get you back up and running.
I didn't read the article with the tailstock trick so I don't know what to say about that. You need to put some way oil (Mobil Vactra #2). That is what protects the ways and allows the moving parts to glide.
The carriage and gears all use a heavy turbine oil (Mobile DTE 24). Running it with no oil will cause problems and sound like it's all coming apart.
I bet there is over $750 worth of parts that come with that lathe, and more if you decided to part it out (Don't do that). That all said, I understand you are looking for a lathe that is turn key ready, and that ol SB isn't quite there (well... maybe?). If you are interested in a working project that would be a nice machine.
** Oh yeah! **
Replace that flat leather belt with an automotive timing belt and it will out perform that old leather night and day difference!
The grinding marks on the bed ways are where they chucked up something large and it made contact with the ways. ******, but not a deal breaker.
The chucks have sat for a while and need to be disassembled, cleaned, then lubricated. I bet you could get them working again.
The spindle sounding crunchy is probably because the oil cups that lubricate the plain bearings in the spindle are empty. You need some lightweight oil in there (Mobile Vactra #10). Good news is they are easy to replace. Kits are sold online to get you back up and running.
I didn't read the article with the tailstock trick so I don't know what to say about that. You need to put some way oil (Mobil Vactra #2). That is what protects the ways and allows the moving parts to glide.
The carriage and gears all use a heavy turbine oil (Mobile DTE 24). Running it with no oil will cause problems and sound like it's all coming apart.
I bet there is over $750 worth of parts that come with that lathe, and more if you decided to part it out (Don't do that). That all said, I understand you are looking for a lathe that is turn key ready, and that ol SB isn't quite there (well... maybe?). If you are interested in a working project that would be a nice machine.
** Oh yeah! **
Replace that flat leather belt with an automotive timing belt and it will out perform that old leather night and day difference!
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paulsomlo
Well-known member
Agreed - at $750, I might hesitate, but at $400, I'd be all over that. That said, the streets are literally paved with iron back in the northeast. When I used to visit my mom in NJ, I would drool over all the lathes on craigslist; I fantasized about renting a semi and loading it with machines to bring back to Colorado. So, time is on your side, the right one will come along.
OP
chaosracing
Well-known member
There was oil in the cups. It might be difficult to tell, but the one chunk in the bed thats missing was not ground out, but rather busted. I could see the grain of the steel when it was made. I thought about offering less for it, but I did want to research more. I know alot of it can be fixed easily and I am not one to shy away from work. Its just I am wondering how much it would cost in parts plus the machine itself vs another machine.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
^^^^
bctexas
Well-known member
FWIW, that machine has the same gearbox as my 9 inch. Mine was sold in November of 1935. I found a couple pics of Model 187A machines from 1940 and later and they had different gearboxes so I would guess the machine you looked at is from the mid to late 1930's.
When you look at a South Bend, the serial number can date the machine. It is stamped on the right end of the front way. Mine is 61781. A database of them is here (it has a link to a picture of my machine):
http://www.wswells.com/sn/sn_db.html
Grizzly has the old hand printed data cards that South Bend kept for each machine they sold. You can get a copy from them for $25. There is also a link to the card for my machine in the database.
Happy hunting!
bobcatdan
Well-known member
Once off the trailer, I moved my 11" south bend fairly gracefully with my hydraulic lift cart. Was able to balance it under the crip tray and lift it just enough to move. I don't believe this is considered a good way to lift lathes, but I have no idea how it has been moved the last 80 years so since it's easiest and it didn't break in two, I'll live with my deed. If you don't have a hydraulic lift cart, they are the handiest thing to have so you should buy one.
OP
chaosracing
Well-known member
So with all the **** going one since March (not just COVID ****) I have not had a chance to get a lathe yet. I have kept looking, but waht I was finding was either to expensive, way to far to get or gone very quickly. One I have had my eye on for a while just dropped $500 bucks ao I might go look at it. But I found another Southbend that was just listed and the guy just took $500 off already. Its a Southbend Model A and looks a little rough, as does the jaws and some tooling. I will try to post the link, but its through FB
https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...t=marketplace_saved_item_price_drop&ref=notif
https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...t=marketplace_saved_item_price_drop&ref=notif
OP
chaosracing
Well-known member
I think this is probably a better option, if he still has it.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/681291312655664
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/681291312655664
paulsomlo
Well-known member
The first one you linked, the green one, is maybe a $1200 lathe - it's in pretty rough shape.
The 2nd one you linked, is essentially the same lathe with another inch of center height, a model 10K, aka "light 10". It's fairly well tooled and it has a taper attachment. I think it's a bit overpriced, a fair price might be $1400-$1600.
You're on the right track though - if you're after a 9" or 10" South Bend, the most desirable version has a gearbox and the factory cabinet with the motor mounted down inside. I just looked at your local FB Marketplace - within a days drive, there are an almost unlimited number of small lathes for sale. Take your time, there's no shortage of offerings there. If you're willing to spend close to $2k, hold out for something bigger, like a South Bend 10L, aka "Heavy 10". It's much more lathe, bigger spindle through hole, more power.
It took me a year and a half to buy my 1st lathe, I really didn't know what I was looking at, and was afraid of making a bad decision, so I understand where you're at. Six months later, I bought another lathe, eventually sold the 1st. It would really help if you could find someone in the area that knows lathes to ride along with you.
metlmunchr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2011
- Messages
- 1,278
Looks like a much better buy to me. There's a steady rest and follower rest in the pic with the collets and drawtube. You could be learning to use that lathe from the get go rather than hunting for parts and trying to repair some worn out pile of junk.