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Metric 12pt Socket Usefulness?

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Bigblue&Goldie

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With the numerous threads about 6pt vs 12pt tools, I've never seen anyone mention metric 12pt fasteners. It's pretty common knowledge 12pt SAE fasteners are used extensively on airplanes and are common on engine components (heads, headers, connecting rod bolts, main caps, etc.), but I've never come across a metric 12pt fastener. Granted, most of my wrenching is on older domestics and race cars.

So my question is, how often do you professional techs come across 12pt metric fasteners? Do most of you guys own a set of 12pt MM sockets?
 
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ihateminimumwage

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There's a reason I'm selling my 1/2" drive Metric 12 point Williams sockets. Bought years ago, and have never needed to use them.
 
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nicksnothereman

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Bigblue&Goldie said:
With the numerous threads about 6pt vs 12pt tools, I've never seen anyone mention metric 12pt fasteners. It's pretty common knowledge 12pt SAE fasteners are used extensively on airplanes and are common on engine components (heads, headers, connecting rod bolts, main caps, etc.), but I've never come across a metric 12pt fastener. Granted, most of my wrenching is on older domestics and race cars.

So my question is, how often do you professional techs come across 12pt metric fasteners? Do most of you guys own a set of 12pt MM sockets?
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It's like triple square but somewhat less offensive because 12 point is widespread availability wise. They don't want you to be able to get the bolts off so they make it "harder" to find the right tool to get the job done. It's like e-torx, what the hell is the point just use a damn torx bolt!

I suppose the theory is more accurate "application of torque" do they actually do that? Meh.

Euro techs will run into this stuff but probably not enough to annoy them unless they're doing transmission work (my assumption).
 
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Olafur

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Few and far between but they are out there. Some front axle shaft nuts are 12 point.

Actually I just used one yesterday, 8mm 12 point for conn-rod bearing in air compressor. (MAN truck)
 
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Champo

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Call me a hack, but you can use 12 point sockets for 6 point and 12 point fasteners :scared:

... just sayin' :lol_hitti
 
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MBfreak

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Many european brands use 12 point nuts on driveshafts, crankshaft snout bolts, gearbox main shaft nuts. Usually bigger sizes like 19 mm and up.


Ola
 
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RunninOnEmpty

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I had a B5 Audi A4 that used both 12 points (e.g. crankshaft pulley bolt) and "triple square"/XZN
 
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dnschmidt

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Oddly, nobody complains about using 12 pt. wrenches which are more or less universal but people distain 12 point sockets as they believe they round off bolts and nuts. With the advent of flank drive why are 12 sockets so unloved? If it's good enough for your wrenches why is it inferior for your sockets?

This seems to be a recent phenomena. I have my dad's tools from 1946 when he came back from WWII and they are all 12 point sockets. During what time frame did we move from 12 point to 6 point sockets?
 
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HairMetal

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dnschmidt said:
Oddly, nobody complains about using 12 pt. wrenches which are more or less universal but people distain 12 point sockets as they believe they round off bolts and nuts. With the advent of flank drive why are 12 sockets so unloved? If it's good enough for your wrenches why is it inferior for your sockets?

This seems to be a recent phenomena. I have my dad's tools from 1946 when he came back from WWII and they are all 12 point sockets. During what time frame did we move from 12 point to 6 point sockets?
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Oh, we just do that from experience.
 
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Jeeper

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Ditto on the Ford Driveshaft/rear diff and the Jeep unit bearings. I hit both in my Jeep 92 Wrangler with an 8.8 diff in it.
 
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boostedgt

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most of the time i dont care if its a 12pt or 6pt, they both do the job unless something looks really iffy and even then 6pt can mess things up too
 
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RunninOnEmpty

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dnschmidt said:
Oddly, nobody complains about using 12 pt. wrenches which are more or less universal but people distain 12 point sockets as they believe they round off bolts and nuts. With the advent of flank drive why are 12 sockets so unloved? If it's good enough for your wrenches why is it inferior for your sockets?
Click to expand...

I've been wondering the same thing. I've started buying 12 point sockets when looking for a quality set as a quality set will be just as good or better than 6 point sockets. If I'm looking for something cheap for whatever reason, I would probably stick to 6pt, however.

Edit to add:

HairMetal said:
I've seen some some 16mm on european cars
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My B5 Audi A4 did use 16mm on several things. For other previous cars of mine that I did a lot of work on, I don't think my 99 Camaro used 16mm and my 89 Camaro was too old and I can't remember if my 09 Pontiac G8 did. I know the G8 used a lot of 18mm and I had cheap Craftsman wrenches at the time which skipped that size so I had to buy it separately (which I also had to do with the 16mm for the A4). Now I've been replacing those with better tools that don't skip those sizes.
 
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HairMetal

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RunninOnEmpty said:
I've been wondering the same thing. I've started buying 12 point sockets when looking for a quality set as a quality set will be just as good or better than 6 point sockets. If I'm looking for something cheap for whatever reason, I would probably stick to 6pt, however.
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You live and learn i think.
 
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OutsideMachinist

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HairMetal said:
You live and learn i think.
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Plenty of threads on this. Sometimes 6 point sockets are a disadvantage in tight spots regardless of how many teeth your ratchet has. 6 point wrenches are mostly useless in my opinion just for that same reason range of motion. Just get both. If you think you won't use them often then buy a used set or just get some imports you can always upgrade later if you find the need.
 
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Wizzard

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Some Ford driveshaft bolts are 12pt (12mm) in my experience. I know this because I had to order an impact socket in 12mm 12pt configuration.
 
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n8n

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dnschmidt said:
Oddly, nobody complains about using 12 pt. wrenches which are more or less universal but people distain 12 point sockets as they believe they round off bolts and nuts. With the advent of flank drive why are 12 sockets so unloved? If it's good enough for your wrenches why is it inferior for your sockets?

This seems to be a recent phenomena. I have my dad's tools from 1946 when he came back from WWII and they are all 12 point sockets. During what time frame did we move from 12 point to 6 point sockets?
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I have a late 50's or early 60's 3/8" drive socket set that was my grandfather's, the smaller sizes are 6 point and the larger sizes are 12 point.

Maybe cars hadn't had a chance to rust enough by WW2? :)

personally I use 12 point combos because that's what I have, but if I'm fighting with a stuck fastener I won't - I'll use a socket or a 6 point box wrench if I have it.
 
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lilcraigford

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Aside from the OEM applications mentioned, I keep 12 point sockets on hand to support my unhealthy habit of using ARP hardware whenever I put something back on the project car. In general use I find the extra six points handy for that extra degree of adjustment when working in a tight spot.
 
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RunninOnEmpty

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lilcraigford said:
Aside from the OEM applications mentioned, I keep 12 point sockets on hand to support my unhealthy habit of using ARP hardware whenever I put something back on the project car. In general use I find the extra six points handy for that extra degree adjustment when working in a tight spot.
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I myself have wasted a bit more time than necessary checking if ARP makes a certain bolt...
 
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logikal

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B7 and up a4 use 12 point 10mm for the steering rack, most of the newer hard parts on porsche are changing over to 12 point. Also triple square has 12 90 degree points while double hex (not double square) have 120 degree angles. Non interchangeable.
 
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d430

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30mm 12pt for Toyota cars cv axle nut
14mm 12pt for honda head bolts
17mm 12pt for honda torque converter drive plate
10mm 12pt for honda clutch pressure plates
That's all that I can think of off the top my head right now that I use them on.
 
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