Metric Hardware - where do you buy?

[rwa2004]

First my rant:
All of our vehicles have been completely metric for decades. Our tractors are metric. Our tools are metric. Why in the world does nearly every hardware store have 80%-90% of their stock as imperial fasteners? Who buys it? When I need a carriage bolt, I find 5 options for every imperial size and am lucky to find one metric. I understand most hardware stores have the basic availability of metric, but there is a reason for all the variety in the imperial world.We do not need to discuss whether or not we should be using metric fasteners, that was decided decades ago. Are all American hardware stores decades behind the times?

Now my question:
Where is your favorite place to get metric hardware? Do you find one is better than another?

 

[GMCGarage]

Grainger has every bolt and nut I ever needed.

 

[fsae0607]

Mcmaster-Carr

 

[slow]

Ace hardware or the Fastenal next to my office.

 

[tatra]

Are there any sites that have a list of common , specialty etc hardware for makes or models by drivetrain or body etc? For example Dodge Ram pickups with Hemi .

 

[L5wolvesf]

I'm in a small town, no Fastenal, Mcmaster, or Grainger near - ACE usually has what I need.

 

[tomtomgt356]

I get most of my metric bolts from boltdepot.com. Most of my cars are Japanese and use JIS standards. I ordered a selection of flange bolts in M6, M8 and M10 of various lengths. My last order was 110 bolts shipped to my door for $50. It's not that far off the cost of imperial bolts at the orange and blue stores. I keep a small selection on hand to replace bolts when needed and replenish when they get low. If I don't have the exact bolt, I can at least figure out the size I need and order it.

 

[nadogail]

In San Diego my "go to" shop is Marshall's Industrial Hardware in the Miramar area.

 

[Wrench97]

Imperial supply.> https://www.imperialsupplies.com/br...flange-bolts?Fsystem_measure_spec_s="Metric "

 

[rwa2004]

Imperial supply.> https://www.imperialsupplies.com/br...flange-bolts?Fsystem_measure_spec_s="Metric "

Haha - I got a kick out of the name of the website - Imperial Supply.

So I did a quick comparison of options as available on Imperial Supply:
Hex Head Cap Screws - 2308 Imp / 1054 Metric
Flange Bolts - 285 Imp / 151 Metric
Carriage Bolts - 341 Imp / 72 Metric
Socket Head Cap Screw - 670 Imp / 509 Metric
Button Head Cap Screws - 159 Imp / 63 Metric
Hex Nuts - 316 Imp / 178 Metric

So these guys are offering 2 options in Imperial for every 1 option in Metric.
What if someone told them they could carry 1/3 of the variations in stock?
Who is buying the Imperial sizes that makes it worth it to carry them?

 

[NUTTSGT]

For the few that I need, I buy them at the local Ace. They are more expensive than the bulk SAE fasteners I buy at TSC

 

[Wrench97]

Haha - I got a kick out of the name of the website - Imperial Supply.

So I did a quick comparison of options as available on Imperial Supply:
Hex Head Cap Screws - 2308 Imp / 1054 Metric
Flange Bolts - 285 Imp / 151 Metric
Carriage Bolts - 341 Imp / 72 Metric
Socket Head Cap Screw - 670 Imp / 509 Metric
Button Head Cap Screws - 159 Imp / 63 Metric
Hex Nuts - 316 Imp / 178 Metric

So these guys are offering 2 options in Imperial for every 1 option in Metric.
What if someone told them they could carry 1/3 of the variations in stock?
Who is buying the Imperial sizes that makes it worth it to carry them?

It's changing but there are a lot of SAE on trailers, and you still have us older guys that grab 5/16 or 3/8 bolts/washers/nuts to hold mud flaps on.
Anything that gets drilled of course ends up SAE. A worn 12mm gets drilled out to 1/2", 16mm through bolts on shocks end up 5/8" the list goes on.

 

[bwringer]

I feel your pain. No idea why every hardware store has rows and rows of gleaming, untouched inch **** and a few drawers of desperately pawed-through mostly empty metric stuff. That's what we in the marketing biz call a "strong market signal"...

Seriously, I think some of these hardware store guys see their mission in life as holding on to massive amounts of inventory, not selling stuff. I guess that could explain why a couple of local hardware stores sold out last year.



ANYWAY: I mostly get stuff from McMaster-Carr and Bolt Depot. McMaster-Carr gets stuff in my hands next day, but you're limited to box quantities (usually not a problem, since I like having extras) and they don't have much JIS stuff.

Bolt Depot will sell in any quantity which is handy for bigger or more expensive fasteners.

http://www.clipsandfasteners.com is also a great source for, well, y'know, look at the name... but they also have quite a few oddball and JIS bolts and stuff. Their search engine and pics are awful.

Also, some auto parts stores actually keep a decent-ish stock of JIS hardware, although sometimes you have to go a-begging at the counter to get a sniff, and they don't seem to give two shits about keeping inventory updated or organized. I've also seen some very handy JIS assortments at a few auto parts stores for not much money. Same goes for motorcycle shoppes - there are some handy assortments for sale in most.

I also tend to collect used fasteners in good shape, especially of they're JIS and a widely used or unusual size.

And finally, sometimes it's worth just ordering up some OEM new stuff next time you order a batch of parts. I do this all the time with motorcycles, especially for oddball stuff.


FWIW, Fastenal is always mentioned in these threads, yet they're almost entirely useless, at least for metric stuff. I have never once managed to successfully complete an online or in person purchase of metric hardware at Fastenal. Every single blasted time, it's "we ain't got that", or "we can get it here in about a week".

 

[BarryWells]

These guys ere fantastic. Use the telephone...
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/

 

[cory58]

What is JIS? I haven’t had a Jap car since I started working on my own cars 20+ years ago. Are they not metric?


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[bwringer]

JIS is a Japanese standard for metric fasteners, used in most Asian cars and machinery. So Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Subaru, etc.

The main differences are finer thread pitch on 10mm and larger threads, and smaller hex heads on 8mm and larger.

So on an American car, an 8mm thread bolt will usually take a 13mm wrench. On a JIS car, 8mm thread bolts usually take a 12mm wrench.

10mm threads - 14mm wrench, 1.25mm pitch
12mm threads - 17mm wrench, 1.25mm pitch
14mm threads - 19, but sometimes 21 or 22mm wrench, 1.5mm pitch.

The other main difference is that many JIS bolts are flanged, sort of a built-in washer under the head:
https://www.boltdepot.com/Flange_bolts.aspx?nv=rel

The strength ratings are a different system as well, and there are many other engineering and detail differences to be aware of, but those are the main differences a mechanic would see.

Plus, American and European vehicles have their own standards, and there are some important differences in their standards as well.

Overall, I find that Japanese/Korean vehicles stick MUCH closer to their established standards than any American or Euro brands do. If you have 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19, 21, 22, and 24mm, you can be quite confident you'll be able to get the job done.

For some damfool reason, Ford, GM, VAG, FCA, etc. just LOOOOOVE to invent moronic new types of fasteners and sprinkle them randomly and inappropriately throughout their vehicles.

And it gets really fun when Ford, for example, puts a German transmission in their American car, so you're dealing with a subtle and maddening mix. Is this thing 19mm or 18mm? 16 or 17? AAAARRGGGHHHHHH!!!

OK, at least this VW will make sense... wait, is that Torx? NO! It just LOOKS sort of like Torx on crack! It's XZN!

 

[Wrench97]

Japanese Industrial Standard it's their version of SAE for testing standards, sizing, strength etc.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Maybe I'm out of the loop these days, but in my world, Imperial is English. NOBODY uses that system anymore. It's either, ASE or Metric...

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tommy

 

[rsanter]

Because most people don’t work on their own newer car so they don’t really need the metric bolts.
The people that buy those bolts are doing basic project stuff

 

[tonyciambrone]

Hardware stores probably carry mostly SAE because that is what's commonly used in construction and trades here.

I doubt people buying automotive fasteners makes up the bulk of their business. I am guessing farm stores will start stocking more metric in the near future. Big R and Rural King already have a decent selection if memory serves

 

[like2wheel]

Maybe I'm out of the loop these days, but in my world, Imperial is English. NOBODY uses that system anymore. It's either, ASE or Metric...

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tommy

You're wrong.


But Im sure it was just a clerical error:
SAE.

ASE does seem to have less presence, but that is a topic for another discussion...

 

[DGersic]

If I need a handful, or need it today, my local Do It hardware store has a good selection of metric fasteners.

If I need it in box quantity, or something weird sized, McMaster Carr can have it here in a couple of days.


Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Onefastgsx]

Tractor supply most of the time.

 

[rtz]

One more great source I didn't see mentioned: https://www.belmetric.com/

 

[Stadger]

I have never really had any problem finding metric or SAE fasteners at my local ACE. I'm even able to use both types without letting it be the rant-worthy bother that so upsets young people. Lighten up kids!

 

[HenryAZ]

McMaster-Carr. When I rebuilt an FJ-40, I needed quite a few metric bolts to replace old rusty, corroded ones. At first I went to Ace, for one or two, but the price was high. I then decided that buying a pkg of 25 from McMaster-Carr was only a tiny bit more expensive than buying 2 or 3 at Ace, so I started down that road. I now have a stack of partitioned boxes (6 boxes) with all kinds and sizes of metric bolts, hex, allen, round head allen, etc.

There is (was) a member on IH8MUD.com who was selling complete sets of correct JIS hardware for the FJ's.

 

[lilredex]

In San Diego my "go to" shop is Marshall's Industrial Hardware in the Miramar area.

You are so fortunate. Will certainly check them out next time in SD.

https://www.marshallshardware.com/

 

[1foxracing]

Rural King has a good selection of Metric hardware at good prices.

 

[bwringer]

Because most people don’t work on their own newer car so they don’t really need the metric bolts.
The people that buy those bolts are doing basic project stuff

Hardware stores probably carry mostly SAE because that is what's commonly used in construction and trades here.

I doubt people buying automotive fasteners makes up the bulk of their business. I am guessing farm stores will start stocking more metric in the near future. Big R and Rural King already have a decent selection if memory serves

I understand houses, some heavy equipment, many lawn mowers, Harleys, and much farm machinery are still mostly inch, as well as many American brand cars up to about the mid-70s.

The problem I have is that all the inch **** in hardware stores is virtually untouched because it's less and less useful, while the meager offerings of metric stuff are perpetually out of stock.

That said, I do have a couple of favorite local hardware stores where they seem to have gotten the memo and tend to stock a somewhat better selection of metric. For example, the Do It Best in Fishers, NE of Indy, and the Ace in Zionsville.

It's a store by store difference; there are several other stores around here of the same brands that stock very little metric yet have a vast selection of inch stuff gathering dust; they don't seem to have picked up the clue that it's not selling. It's maddening, I tells ya.

For the record, I don't really care what standard is being used on whatever machine I'm tinkering with; I only wish it would be consistent.

Mixing inch and metric randomly, as on many American brand cars through the 90s, makes things a giant pain in the ***. Working on a Buell motorcycle is absolutely maddening; it's a complete mishmash where you'll open every damn drawer in your tool cabinet. And then there are more subtle metric mishmashes, like a Japanese transmission in a German or American car, that can drive you batshit.

 

[rburke65]

Typically just Home Depot for my metric needs.

 

[minke]

Maybe I'm out of the loop these days, but in my world, Imperial is English. NOBODY uses that system anymore. It's either, ASE or Metric...

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tommy

Perhaps you were thinking of Whitworth ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth ) where they use sizes such as 14⅝/57. Well, that might be an exaggeration.

 

[maydaymike]

Mixing inch and metric randomly, as on many American brand cars through the 90s, makes things a giant pain in the ***.

It went on later than that. My '66 Chevy truck, 2008 Lincoln Town Car, and 2012 Jeep Wrangler all use the same 1/2-20 lug nut. My son's 97 Chevy truck uses a metric one.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[amkluttz]

Mixing inch and metric randomly, as on many American brand cars through the 90s, makes things a giant pain in the ***. Working on a Buell motorcycle is absolutely maddening; it's a complete mishmash where you'll open every damn drawer in your tool cabinet. And then there are more subtle metric mishmashes, like a Japanese transmission in a German or American car, that can drive you batshit.

This!

When the threads were messed up on my Tundra lower shock bolts nobody carried a M14x1.5 flange head bolt. The guy at NAPA wanted to know why I didn't want to use standard.

I had to purchase a set of lug nuts for the same Tundra. I made an assumption that the M12x1.5 nut would have a 21mm head... nope, 13/16". That would've been great had I not figured it out and had another flat.

I've also worked on a Buell XB12ss before

 

[tez929rr]

I get most of my metric bolts from boltdepot.com. Most of my cars are Japanese and use JIS standards. I ordered a selection of flange bolts in M6, M8 and M10 of various lengths. My last order was 110 bolts shipped to my door for $50. It's not that far off the cost of imperial bolts at the orange and blue stores. I keep a small selection on hand to replace bolts when needed and replenish when they get low. If I don't have the exact bolt, I can at least figure out the size I need and order it.

X2. I bought this stainless assortment a while ago. It comes in a nice segmented metal box that I keep stocked up.

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=7543

 

[Davefr]

Ace H/W. Not all Ace's are the same. Some are real hardware stores and others are more like convenience stores.

 

[dr_clyde]

I buy the majority of my hardware from an outfit called SZS Fasteners in Dorr, Michigan. Great company. The salesman comes by every few weeks and re-stocks my bins.

I also buy lots from McMaster- Carr.

I will also say the the vast, vast majority of hardware that I use is SAE/inch. Most of the industrial world still runs on inch hardware.

I don’t work on cars, so I don’t use the weird fasteners they use.

Metric is only used in my world when I’m working on a European machine or something like that.

 

[rustyjames]

Albanycounty or Boltdepot.

 

[davework]

There is (was) a member on IH8MUD.com who was selling complete sets of correct JIS hardware for the FJ's.

That's us at overlandmetric.com

We specialize in JIS hardware, custom manufactured for Land Cruisers, but also correct for many other automotive and machinery applications. I've used our 316 stainless hardware and our plated carbon steel hardware on Yanmar Diesels, Yamaha outboards, tractors and Datsun Zs.

We should be competitive with most other online vendors in JIS sizes, and if not, please shoot us a message on the website.

If you can't find what you need on our site, Belmetric.com is a great vendor for JIS and Metric Hardware and they have great customer service.

 

[TylerRNEMT]

JIS is a Japanese standard for metric fasteners, used in most Asian cars and machinery. So Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Subaru, etc.

The main differences are finer thread pitch on 10mm and larger threads, and smaller hex heads on 8mm and larger.

So on an American car, an 8mm thread bolt will usually take a 13mm wrench. On a JIS car, 8mm thread bolts usually take a 12mm wrench.

10mm threads - 14mm wrench, 1.25mm pitch
12mm threads - 17mm wrench, 1.25mm pitch
14mm threads - 19, but sometimes 21 or 22mm wrench, 1.5mm pitch.

The other main difference is that many JIS bolts are flanged, sort of a built-in washer under the head:
https://www.boltdepot.com/Flange_bolts.aspx?nv=rel

The strength ratings are a different system as well, and there are many other engineering and detail differences to be aware of, but those are the main differences a mechanic would see.

Plus, American and European vehicles have their own standards, and there are some important differences in their standards as well.

Overall, I find that Japanese/Korean vehicles stick MUCH closer to their established standards than any American or Euro brands do. If you have 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19, 21, 22, and 24mm, you can be quite confident you'll be able to get the job done.

For some damfool reason, Ford, GM, VAG, FCA, etc. just LOOOOOVE to invent moronic new types of fasteners and sprinkle them randomly and inappropriately throughout their vehicles.

And it gets really fun when Ford, for example, puts a German transmission in their American car, so you're dealing with a subtle and maddening mix. Is this thing 19mm or 18mm? 16 or 17? AAAARRGGGHHHHHH!!!

OK, at least this VW will make sense... wait, is that Torx? NO! It just LOOKS sort of like Torx on crack! It's XZN!

This PRECISELY!!!! It drives me insane how many "One Off" style bolts and fasteners are on modern american cars!!!!! WTF a bolt should be a bolt should be a bolt....but no it always has to be some weird obscure flange/partially threaded odd head style crazy a$$ fastener.

-Tyler

 

[John in OH]

IIRC, and if you have them in your area, I believe Rural King has basic metric fasteners in bulk and sell by the pound.