I need a set of metric tap and dies, covering the standardish range used on cars, etc. I know the general advice is "buy as you need them", but I got stuck tonight, and needed a tap I didn't have, and had to buy a garbage tap from an auto parts place. The use is mostly cleaning up existing threads, but the occaisional new hole or screw needs to get cut. I've got a few sets of taps (plug, taper, bottom) of sizes I expect to do fabrication work with, but not a complete range, and no dies. I have an old Craftsman SAE set (made by Irwin/hansen, I believe), which is pretty mediocre, but good enough for what I want this for. Something like that (including the case, this is going to be in storage 99% of the time) would be ideal. Suggestions? $200ish budget.
metric tap and die set
- Thread starter dscheidt
- Start date
rancherbill
Well-known member
My metric tap and die set is a Mastercraft set from Canadian Tire. It's probably rated as medium to industrial quality. My philosophy is to get a set and have all the sizes because I never know what I will need. Then buy good ones to fill in the ones I break. I have not broken and and none have worn out.
InjectorService
Well-known member
The key to tapping is to drill the correct size hole. Make sure you have the correct bits for your tap size
Wamsutta
Well-known member
jayemm
Well-known member
Didn't Astro Pneumatic offer automotive specific tap and die sets. I haven't heard anything about them for a while though.
And, on the economy side of things, skipping Harbor Freight's cheapest carbon steel garbage set, I've seen where the next step up (was ~ $30-40 range) and the one above that ( was in the ~$85 range) had favorable reviews. These may suffice for occasional use.
Also in choosing a set you might consider the sizes and thread pitches used on Asian vs European vehicles. Mazda threw me a curve ball by preferring the 1.25 mm thread pitch. My set had 1.0 and 1.5 in that size I needed, so trip to hardware store.
For automotive, I'm most concerned about the smaller threads in aluminum on the engine or transmission as it's nice to have the correct tap in case of knackering threads there.
This is the set I have that covers both SAE and metric. Has 27 taps and 27 dies and is made in Japan. There are other kits also. I put it on par with Hanson. These are the same taps and dies sold under the Century Drill brand in various kits but are cheaper under the Alfa Tools (depending where they are sold) brand. I think it's good value for the price of $ 121.20 from this vendor. Also, you might see what they offer in a metric only set since that's what you are looking for.
fastoolnow.com
And, on the economy side of things, skipping Harbor Freight's cheapest carbon steel garbage set, I've seen where the next step up (was ~ $30-40 range) and the one above that ( was in the ~$85 range) had favorable reviews. These may suffice for occasional use.
Also in choosing a set you might consider the sizes and thread pitches used on Asian vs European vehicles. Mazda threw me a curve ball by preferring the 1.25 mm thread pitch. My set had 1.0 and 1.5 in that size I needed, so trip to hardware store.
For automotive, I'm most concerned about the smaller threads in aluminum on the engine or transmission as it's nice to have the correct tap in case of knackering threads there.
This is the set I have that covers both SAE and metric. Has 27 taps and 27 dies and is made in Japan. There are other kits also. I put it on par with Hanson. These are the same taps and dies sold under the Century Drill brand in various kits but are cheaper under the Alfa Tools (depending where they are sold) brand. I think it's good value for the price of $ 121.20 from this vendor. Also, you might see what they offer in a metric only set since that's what you are looking for.
ALFA TDS66060 - 60pc Carbon Steel SAE/Metric Tap and Die Set in Metal Case
ALFA TDS66060 - 60pc Carbon Steel SAE/Metric Tap and Die Set in Metal CaseGeneral purpose hand tap for use by hand or under power, in
fastoolnow.com
Last edited:
I have found the more parts a tap and die set includes, the lower the quality is.
Here’s my advice:
1) get a set of Lang/Craftsman/snap-on thread chasers/restorers. Lang is the OEM, so find the cheapest set. Then never use a tap again to chase threads. Should be around $75. You may find you can stop here.
2) for automotive, seriously how many times are you going to use a die? If you have a fastener you don’t want to replace, the thread restorer die is the right tool, not a thread cutting die. Injector had the key. I’ve had success with tap and drill sets for random tapped holes, note, not combination tap and drills, but sets containing both drill bits and taps as separate items. I just did a quick search on MSC. They don’t have a US made set. I would not pay $150 for Chinese. I’d look for US made. Check out McMaster, Grainger, Carr Lane etc. I think this set is US made:
3) Go on eBay and buy Starrett tap handles In the styles you want. The tap handles that come with sets are usually garbage.
4) If you need dies, and I’m not sure why you would, get round ones, not the hex ones.
Here’s my advice:
1) get a set of Lang/Craftsman/snap-on thread chasers/restorers. Lang is the OEM, so find the cheapest set. Then never use a tap again to chase threads. Should be around $75. You may find you can stop here.
2) for automotive, seriously how many times are you going to use a die? If you have a fastener you don’t want to replace, the thread restorer die is the right tool, not a thread cutting die. Injector had the key. I’ve had success with tap and drill sets for random tapped holes, note, not combination tap and drills, but sets containing both drill bits and taps as separate items. I just did a quick search on MSC. They don’t have a US made set. I would not pay $150 for Chinese. I’d look for US made. Check out McMaster, Grainger, Carr Lane etc. I think this set is US made:
3) Go on eBay and buy Starrett tap handles In the styles you want. The tap handles that come with sets are usually garbage.
4) If you need dies, and I’m not sure why you would, get round ones, not the hex ones.
Retired dozer fixer
Well-known member
Why waste good money on premium taps & dies for thread chasing? Just dulls them. Buy thread chasers. Save your money for good taps for cutting new threads
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
As others have stated thread chasers are the way to go. For the sizes they don’t offer thread forming taps are better then standard cutting taps for chasing threads.
For buying taps the YG makes by far the best taps I’ve found. Especially for the price! In fact YG is all that I buy for taps now. I’d start with a set of their spiral fluted taps as I seem to tap far more blind holes the. Through holes.
I don’t remember the last time I used a die that wasn’t a thread chaser.
I would highly recommend investing in Starrett tap handles. Nothing else comes close.
For buying taps the YG makes by far the best taps I’ve found. Especially for the price! In fact YG is all that I buy for taps now. I’d start with a set of their spiral fluted taps as I seem to tap far more blind holes the. Through holes.
I don’t remember the last time I used a die that wasn’t a thread chaser.
I would highly recommend investing in Starrett tap handles. Nothing else comes close.
I scanned right past the "The use is mostly cleaning up existing threads, but the occasional new hole or screw needs to get cut."
You have two totally different tools needed for what you describe above. Definitely get the Lang thread chaser set for repairing threads (I've used the 'tap' and the 'die' style chasers many times over my DIY years, and holy **** am I glad I have them). If you need to cut new fasteners and/or new holes to receive them, get a real Tap and Die set or just but the most-common/likely ones. As a pretty-active DIY'er (for automotive), I've never had that need.
You have two totally different tools needed for what you describe above. Definitely get the Lang thread chaser set for repairing threads (I've used the 'tap' and the 'die' style chasers many times over my DIY years, and holy **** am I glad I have them). If you need to cut new fasteners and/or new holes to receive them, get a real Tap and Die set or just but the most-common/likely ones. As a pretty-active DIY'er (for automotive), I've never had that need.
bwringer
Well-known member
Yes, Astro once sold a great automotive metric set, but it's long gone.
Gearwrench sells a pretty decent set nowadays, or honestly in the OP's shoes I'd assemble a set of the sizes I need from scratch, using higher-quality stuff from Zoro, McMaster, Grainger, and/or MSC. Get the taps and CORRECT size drill bits; I have no idea why so many sets do not include the drill bits, or force you to use the widely available approximations marked in barleycorns that are all we can find on the shelf in the US.
For example, I have M6x1.0 taps stamped with the drill bit size 13/64". This converts to 5.16mm, but the correct drill bit size would be 5mm.
This only works when you know the thread sizes you need, of course; as noted above, Asian vehicles use finer pitches in 10mm and above. 'Merkin and Euro vehicles have different standards, so research these if that's what you're working on. Or buy everything...
And of course as many have noted, the Lang thread restorers are far more appropriate in "cleanup" situations; reserve the taps for actual tapping. For spark plug threads in cylinder heads, there are special thread chasers.
Dies are very, very rarely needed. I think I've threaded the outside of a brass tube to make an adapter a few times. I have used a die to clean up threads when I didn't have a restorer of the correct size. Unless you have a lathe, it can be ridiculously difficult to get metric rod or tubing in the US of damn A with diameters appropriate for metric threads.
Lastly, I'd also buy a thread file, as well as a few good triangular files. These are fantastic for cleaning up external threads. Cheap, effective, and not one mechanic in ten knows they exist.
A decent set of thread inserts and tooling is another nice luxury to have around, especially if you do much fiddling with vintage metric machinery.
InjectorService
Well-known member
Not to derail, but what organizer system is that? Looks fantastic.As others have stated thread chasers are the way to go. For the sizes they don’t offer thread forming taps are better then standard cutting taps for chasing threads.
For buying taps the YG makes by far the best taps I’ve found. Especially for the price! In fact YG is all that I buy for taps now. I’d start with a set of their spiral fluted taps as I seem to tap far more blind holes the. Through holes.
I don’t remember the last time I used a die that wasn’t a thread chaser.
I would highly recommend investing in Starrett tap handles. Nothing else comes close.
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
purplezr2
Well-known member
See if you can find an old craftsman set. Good taps.
Recommend the Lang/Snapon/Craftsman rethreading kit
Recommend the Lang/Snapon/Craftsman rethreading kit
BoltCutter
New member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2023
- Messages
- 1
There's a good review on you tube on best TAP and DIES here
volkelstore.com in Canada carries a good selection of taps and dies.
I know most of the products are backordered, but they can get most items within a week.
volkelstore.com in Canada carries a good selection of taps and dies.
I know most of the products are backordered, but they can get most items within a week.
Thanks to all, especially the people that pointed out the lang kits. I've ordered one (https://www.langtools.com/sku-2584-15-pc-metric-thread-restorer-set/ I think is what I ordered), will report back when I have need to use it (which will probalby be never, now that I have it...).
I use mine a fair bit. I honestly didn't think I would, but...
Ditto. If you have anything torque sensitive, maybe virtually anything you torque, the mating surfaces and threads should be CLEAN.
I use these things not just for repairing damaged threads but also to clean grit, oxidation etc from threads.
Not us, but some people might think a little grit is like a thread locking device, a little pressure inside the thread that prevents hardware from backing out. The opposite is true.
Last, I’ve owned a couple cars with aluminum blocks. Water pumps etc are often blue lock tited in. You need that out to re lock, and to ensure you don’t cross thread a block.
Don’t wait to use these until you have a damaged thread. Oh, and I hose these down with WD-40 or 3 in 1 oil during use. WD for aluminum. 3in 1 for steel.
SweetD
Well-known member
Years ago now there was a "hot deal" posted on this website for the Craftsman (Lang) SAE and metric "master" set - if I recall it was only like $40 on sale! I bought one at the time and I have to tell you I use that thing a LOT. And I am just a tinkerer/DIY guy. You will like this set.
Yup. I'm a complete chicken when it comes to aluminum especially. The Lang kit has been a staple in my DIY world since I got it.
Do those come pre-printed, like you have in your drawer? I didn't see any on their site. Thanks.
Hohn
Well-known member
Great point. A lot of people don't know that straight torque will give about ± 30% actual tension variation with pristine virgin threads.
How much worse do you think it gets when you add corrosion, loctite, dirt, etc? Pretty bad, I'd wager.
If you don't clean the threads out, there's no point to a torque spec because your torque value no longer correlates to the intended fastener stretch.
BTL-A4
Well-known member
Yeah, I looked as well and didn't see them. The ones you show have a rounded bottom, too.
Correct. When I go through a motorcycle for restorations, every. single. thread. gets cleaned up with a rethreading tap. Engine, frame, suspension, everything. Just about every fastener has a torque spec. I want them clean.
Last edited:
X2 on the old craftsman set. Both of mine are from the 70’s
I finally had to make a new box for the std. set. Taps lasted longer than the plastic box.
My set from work. Various brands obtained from the stock room. All quality. 4-40 thru 3/4-16
These were used a lot for fixture building. Almost never needed a die.
IMO Starrett tap handles make a real difference if you use taps very much
Last edited:
Correct. One could think that increasing friction removes preload and necessitates higher torque settings to achieve desired pre-load. Not true. Friction creates stick slip conditions that increase the variation of the bolt/joint preload.
People aren't dumb to assume high friction means increase the setting on the wrench, since that's the recommended approach for 'wet torque" values. What they don't understand is the definition of "wet torque".
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Sorry guys linked to the wrong system. I forgot that I switched that drawer and my endmill drawers over to the Lista plastic dividers.
They are slightly better than the Schaller bins for tool storage that had various lengths. I made the labels with a Brady label maker.
mixerfixer
Well-known member
I'm a heavy equipment guy. Most things I deal with is packed full of dirt and grit. For chasing threads, get a grade 8 bolt and cut 2 or 3 length wise grooves about a 1/4 of the way through the bolt. Lean the whizzer wheel when cutting to give the groove a sharp leading edge. Give it a good dose of engine oil and have at it for cleaning threads. It will be like a homemade tap but you can run it in and out with a power tool and not worry about it being brittle. It makes short work of cleaning 80 or 100 holes on a set of track frames. When you are done everything is cleaned and oiled. Blow the holes out with a shot of air and go back together. I have never had a problem with a cut away bolt. I have them from 8mm up. Most of mine are made from old bolt, so minimal cost.
I have a set of the Lang re-threaders. This basically a store bought version of the above. I use the dies of this set more than the taps. They work fine.
For actual tap and dies, I have the big metric set from Harbor Freight. It was about $90 for the set. 3 years in and still going strong. I have only broken 1 small tap and it was my fault. I replaced it with a good Caterpillar tap.
I have a set of the Lang re-threaders. This basically a store bought version of the above. I use the dies of this set more than the taps. They work fine.
For actual tap and dies, I have the big metric set from Harbor Freight. It was about $90 for the set. 3 years in and still going strong. I have only broken 1 small tap and it was my fault. I replaced it with a good Caterpillar tap.