Metric tools only?

[jask]

well, the Russians were the first in orbit, using the metric system

In the '40s, the Germans were the leading edge in jet turbine, pulsejet, and nuclear technology, using the metric system

So, uuummm, yeah....

I usually point out to those guys that the actual guidance computer on the Apollo mission was programmed in SI,( although various measurement systems were used in the Apollo program )- what got them there ( and back ) was metric. One of the last great global holdouts for standard measure is aeronautics where things are measured in feet and knots, that is the international standard of aviation and is still used in a few systems aboard the ISS.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

I work on heavy equipment and class 8 vehicles. always a mix of both. seems like most stuff on the truck is metric, but air line fittings and almost anything on the trailer or hydraulic related is SAE. I dont know how anybody could get by with metric only. Alot of sizes overlap so you can get by, but work on anything rusty and its never quite the size it ahould be, so you use whatever fits the tightest.

 

[Ilikeike]

When US made industrial machinery,tractors and 60s muscle cars and other hot rods go metric, I guess I'd us the SAE stuff less at that point.

 

[WWheeler]

I use a mix of metric and SAE every single day at work and quite often at home too. Our cars are newer and nearly 100% metric but my trucks and equipment are a mix. Lawn and garden tools are a mix also. Even household honey-do repairs around the house need SAE as much or more than metric. Just put together a table and cabinet the wife got from Wayfair that had all SAE fasteners.

 

[plinker]

Interesting read.

My experience working truck/equipment/hydraulic was about a 70% inch, 30% metric on average.

What really annoys me though is something that will have say a 10mm hex with 1/4 threads or similar. Mack used about four different hex sizes for a 8x1.25 grade 10.9 bolt depending on what the bolt was used for (12, 13, 14, 15), which makes no sense.

Doing automotive, for me it's about 90% metric with anything made after the turn of the century. Older stuff ('65 Jeep), trailer and tools/pullers, notwithstanding.

 

[MayerMR]

I'd also be first in line to melt down all the SAE hardware/tools (aside from collectors pieces). But, as long as stuff that uses it still exists, I will continue to have both.

You nailed my thoughts exactly.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

Just got a new Ram, and while transferring my truck tools I downsized to just metric save for a flip socket set and a pliers-wrench.

I think I can do it again when I build the next Jeep, which is looking like a Hemi JK.

At the shop, I keep an unnaturally large amount of both though.

 

[Y00PER]

I have used mostly SAE sizes. My riding lawnmower is a 1973 Wheelhorse, my rototiller is a 1970'a Ariens, my snowblower is about a 2000 Simplicity. The newest model year vehicle i owned until last week was a 2005... But now I have a 2014 Subaru, which if they are as reliable as everyone keeps telling me they are, hopefully I still won't need my metric stuff too often

 

[IMStuner]

I don’t really own any sae tools and really never had a need for it since high school.


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[Snakebyt]

the only thing in my work tool box that isnt metric is a brake bleeder wrench, and that came in a 2 pack with the metric one. I work at a toyota dealer, but i work on trade in used cars for the most part and have never had any real trouble without having sae

 

[bbrins]

My job has me kind of being a jack of all trades, so I keep a fairly large assortment of both SAE and metric. Also hex, torx, E torx, tri-square, etc. As far as added hardware is concerned, if it is a metric machine, I will try to use metric hardware, but sometimes you just have to use whatever is on hand.

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[xin]

L0L tO sOMe, depenDs wHAt You Grew up with, and upon your age.

So long story short when I was young seen them in a box and was thinkin this seems to make sense like 8mm, 9mm, 10mm, and so on. On the age of growing up small farm so all american fasterners on tractors/trucks. But on the dirt bikes all metrics.

I still remember to this day, years ago about 38 give/take a year. From that point on it was the metric system. Then later one becoming a mechanic at a Kawi/Yamaha shop never looked back.

 

[jdlong]

I have a bunch of SAE from the 90's when all I droves was 80's cars. Rarely use any of it anymore except for pullers, presses, air fittings...stuff like that. I still run into things like SAE flare nuts on vehicles that are entirely metric otherwise.

 

[Robinson1]

I can't wrap my head around how anyone can get by without SAE tools.

On my service truck (general contractor) I have one small set of metric sockets so I can do maintenance on the generator. Everything else I touch in the building trades is all SAE with the vast majority of it being either 1/4 &5/16 hex head screws or 7/16 & 5/8 bolts.

Try working on farm equipment, heavy equipment, utility trailers or anything to do with plumbing or hydraulics.

SAE isn't going anywhere anytime soon especially in this industry.

Heck even most of the Ceiling fans and light fixtures we install are made in China and still use SAE hardware.

On structural fasteners I could literally get by with 3 sockets 99% of the time 1/2, 5/8, & 3/4. Add 7/16 and 3/8 if you are doing garage doors and 5/16 if you are doing commercial doors

 

[Robinson1]

Of course plumbing is a moot point in this arguments because 99% of plumbing fittings in the real world get turned with either a pair of channel locks or a pipe or adjustable wrench.

 

[KnurledNut]

99% of plumbing fittings in the real world get turned with either a pair of channel locks or a pipe or adjustable wrench.

Would that be a standard or metric adjustable?

 

[M6erfan]

I can't wrap my head around how anyone can get by without SAE tools.

On my service truck (general contractor) I have one small set of metric sockets so I can do maintenance on the generator. Everything else I touch in the building trades is all SAE with the vast majority of it being either 1/4 &5/16 hex head screws or 7/16 & 5/8 bolts...

Try working on your service truck without metric (I'm guessing here...)

 

[Dave455]

In the '40s, the Germans were the leading edge in jet turbine, pulsejet, and nuclear technology, using the metric system

I hate to piss on anybody’s strawberries, so to speak, and I know there’s a lot of misinformation peddled by dubious sources such as the Discovery channel, but...

A guy called Frank Whittle invented the jet engine, and he wasn’t German!

Frank had been working on turbines since the 1920’s and first ran his engine before the Germans. And.. he did that faced with an incompetent government who wouldn’t invest in his ideas, or even classify them as secret!

So, all his patents were freely available, and the German government were prepared to put money into catching up.

Franks son told me that Frank met his German opposite number after the war. Von Ohain told him that the Germans were unaware of Franks designs, and Frank, being a gentleman, believed him. I have aviation magazines from that era detailing British developments, so Von Ohain saying they didn’t know would be a bit like the Russians landing on the moon in about 1972 and claiming that as a first! Franks son shares that view!

Despite all the development money, the Jumo still only had an absolute life of 25 to 35 hours. British engines of the same period, by then into their second generation, were far more advanced, had a longer life, and relatively forgiving handling qualities. I’ve been privileged to fly both the Vampire, and, briefly, a Meteor, and can vouch for this. The only man I know to have flown the 262 as well, assured me it’s engines were ‘temperamental and unforgiving’ by comparison. (Airframes were perhaps a different story).

Frank Whittles basic designs of turbine and compressor (admittedly modified by Frank Halford) still live on and work today in engines such as the Dart.

Remember also, that Britain GAVE the U.S. all the jet engine technology we had, as it was considered so vital to the war effort. At least have the decency to give credit where it’s due!

Oh yes, all the fasteners were BSF or BA...

 

[Citation]

I can't wrap my head around how anyone can get by without SAE tools.

On my service truck (general contractor) I have one small set of metric sockets so I can do maintenance on the generator. Everything else I touch in the building trades is all SAE with the vast majority of it being either 1/4 &5/16 hex head screws or 7/16 & 5/8 bolts.

Try working on farm equipment, heavy equipment, utility trailers or anything to do with plumbing or hydraulics.

SAE isn't going anywhere anytime soon especially in this industry.

Heck even most of the Ceiling fans and light fixtures we install are made in China and still use SAE hardware.

On structural fasteners I could literally get by with 3 sockets 99% of the time 1/2, 5/8, & 3/4. Add 7/16 and 3/8 if you are doing garage doors and 5/16 if you are doing commercial doors

I think this reflects the product life cycle. Some products like electronics turn over fairly quickly and so they can convert to purely metric rather quickly. This is also true of industries where service needs are limited.

Things like cars are a slower process but still, it's reasonable to expect most cars that are over 20 years old will be off the road.*

Buildings and the like are around for a very long time. My last house was near 90 years old. I'm not sure how old some of the wiring boxes were (happily the wiring was not 90 years old) but its sure nice that the screws from today fit into the boxes from when ever they were (and they are no longer flat heads!) I think the very slow turn over of building makes it much harder to change over to different standards since things like plumbing sizes, lumber sizes, some screws etc are so much easier to deal with if they are the same size as the stuff used so long ago. The one place I think I ran into a lot of metric was a mini-split AC unit I installed. That had metric hardware.

The same is true of aircraft where civilian jets and engines can be around for 30-40 years (out of production but in service) and military aircraft from the 1950s are still in common use.

*Speaking of conversions, I kind of assumed GM's love of Torx was in part a way to convert from SAE to metric more easily. Torx fasteners are all metric thread and sized. In changing from SAE to metric GM probably was concerned about picking metric sizes that might be readily confused for SAE hardware. Not a problem in cases where the tool size is near enough to identical but a big problem if they are close but not close enough. Torx hardware bypasses that problem since the screws clearly aren't traditional exterior hex heads.

 

[CR888]

Of course plumbing is a moot point in this arguments because 99% of plumbing fittings in the real world get turned with either a pair of channel locks or a pipe or adjustable wrench.

I don't know how you would remove and install a hot water anode without an industry standard 1-1/16" socket. Good luck using an adjustable or Chanelocks. That's just one example.

 

[Hagatronics]

I don't know how you would remove and install a hot water anode without an industry standard 1-1/16" socket. Good luck using an adjustable or Chanelocks. That's just one example.

27mm socket (vs 26.98 SAE equivalent)? 27mm is a very common size.

 

[CR888]

27mm socket (vs 26.98 SAE equivalent)? 27mm is a very common size.

Ya I can't argue with that, I just put the calibers on the inside of a 27mm compared too a 1-1/16" chrome socket and the difference was tiny, like so tiny I needed veneer calibers to find it and kinda feel ripped off these two sockets of near the exact same size come in the same set. OK I guess we can chuck out the SAE tools.

 

[jnich1977]

I haven't used SAE in many years. Even when I build something for a vehicle, I use metric hardware, so I don't have to carry extra tools.

 

[tigeraid]

I have a classic car so I keep SAE handy, but I use metric 95% of the time.

 

[eyeball]

"Metric" is a misnomer in this case. You, probably meant decimal metric system. There are all kinds of metric systems, and avoir dupois metric system is one of them. Metric is derived from the Greek word 'metros' - to meter, to measure. There are different ways to measure things, hence different metric systems.

Seriously? There was some doubt in your mind about what was “probably” being discussed here?

 

[BDT/NWMN]

"Metric" is a misnomer in this case. You, probably meant decimal metric system. There are all kinds of metric systems, and avoir dupois metric system is one of them. Metric is derived from the Greek word 'metros' - to meter, to measure. There are different ways to measure things, hence different metric systems.

That ancient Greek Guy apparently had the same conversation with the various tool manufacturers who manufacture the millimeter sized tools so many of us own.

 

[Barnabas]

And hey
They’re are two types of countries in the world

Those that use the metric system
And
Those that have been to the moon !

The Russians landed Metric fasteners on the moon ten years before the US landed Apollo 11 there.

 

[Gmonkee]

We USE the metric stuff because the stuff around us is made with them.

We keep the SAE, Whiworth, BA around because it might be needed for older stuff or projects/hobby stuff.

Most of us at least. Others in aviation or other specialist fields will need -mostly- SAE to do the job.
But the Toyota daily driver to and from work won't.

USS and number wrenches went out of use 60 years ago for the most part but anyone with a concours grade Ford T car will want a set around. So until the last T is gone there is a valid use for it. But not by everyone.

 

[derosa]

Started as a bicycle mechanic, other then whitworth which is rare I didn't see a bicycle come through my stand that wasn't metric for 15 years. Fixed up my own cars which were volvos and switched to tinkering with my mazdas. I just build a crib and used 1/4-20 bolts to hold it together, I got out the sae hex set to do the job, turns out they all used 5mm hex and the threaded inserts I screwed into the wood used a 6mm hex to set them. Both came from the local Ace and weren't selected for being metric. I added sae when I bought a craftsman set but have used them maybe 1-2 times a year so they mostly collect dust.

 

[trackwelder]

At work it’s mostly sae with some 10mm on consoles and cabinets. At my home shop except for metric on my vehicles and atvs it’s all mostly sae. I have a massive amount of sae hardware that gets used on anything I build or repair.

 

[M6erfan]

I hate to piss on anybody’s strawberries, so to speak, and I know there’s a lot of misinformation peddled by dubious sources such as the Discovery channel, but...

A guy called Frank Whittle invented the jet engine, and he wasn’t German!

Frank had been working on turbines since the 1920’s and first ran his engine before the Germans. And.. he did that faced with an incompetent government who wouldn’t invest in his ideas, or even classify them as secret!

So, all his patents were freely available, and the German government were prepared to put money into catching up.

Franks son told me that Frank met his German opposite number after the war. Von Ohain told him that the Germans were unaware of Franks designs, and Frank, being a gentleman, believed him. I have aviation magazines from that era detailing British developments, so Von Ohain saying they didn’t know would be a bit like the Russians landing on the moon in about 1972 and claiming that as a first! Franks son shares that view!

Despite all the development money, the Jumo still only had an absolute life of 25 to 35 hours. British engines of the same period, by then into their second generation, were far more advanced, had a longer life, and relatively forgiving handling qualities. I’ve been privileged to fly both the Vampire, and, briefly, a Meteor, and can vouch for this. The only man I know to have flown the 262 as well, assured me it’s engines were ‘temperamental and unforgiving’ by comparison. (Airframes were perhaps a different story).

Frank Whittles basic designs of turbine and compressor (admittedly modified by Frank Halford) still live on and work today in engines such as the Dart.

Remember also, that Britain GAVE the U.S. all the jet engine technology we had, as it was considered so vital to the war effort. At least have the decency to give credit where it’s due!

Oh yes, all the fasteners were BSF or BA...

Yeah, but did the British ever put a man on the moon? No? Ha! Suckit GB! 'Merica!

I am sooooooo kidding. Obviously your experience with turbo fan technology in the 40's qualifies you waaaay more than me to intelligently talk about it. I mean what do I know? All the History, Discovery, Military channel brainwashing has softened me more than a bit I suppose. Carry on!

By the way, BSF? What is that? It sounds technical...


1945, Secret Airfield in Dumbledorf England...

Ground crew: Aloh sir! Getting into the old Vampy this lovely mornin' aye?

Dave: Tis true my good man, tis true.

Ground crew: Do we know if this ****** lump works?

Dave: Ummm...maybe?

Groundcrew: Pip Pip. Cheerio! Cuppa tea?

 

[HC33]

I have mostly my whole box filled with Metric Snap on Tools and some mac and matco. I have one set of snap on SAE Impact sockets i have never used at all . Considering the set was 400 bucks . That was a stupid tool truck buy. Any metric tool will work on a SAE labled whatever you just need to find the metric socket that fits snug. SAE im almost positive wont be around or used in a couple years. I always hated sae numbers 5/8th , 9/16th ect ... Metric is so much better one solid number and not that sae confusing BS.

 

[Gmonkee]

Buying any common sets of SAE new anymore is silly wiyh how much is in the used market.

I practically have to give away SAE open ends as they are hit double with the 'who cares' factor.
Anything metric moves easily at good price.

The demand for using SAE has about 50 more years to diminish meanwhile the supply of 2nd hand SAE tools grows.

 

[Gonzo3333]

I work on commercial airplanes made in Canada and Brazil. The only metric tool I have ever used is a 4mm Alan key to open up a panel in the overhead bins to get access to the ballast for the sidewall and ceiling lights on a CRJ-700. Im pretty sure Airbus uses both metric and SAE. The only airplanes that I do know that are all metric are Russian built airplanes.

 

[MBfreak]

Hi.
To those who hate to cut metric threads on the lathe, I recommend a Soviet mad PROFILA 1 K 62 lathe. Fantastic all around and the feed gerabox is a work of art. You can dial in any thread (almost) known to man.
The pic shows a part of the drum scale during trial installation. The original scale was beaten up so we made a new one.

Best regards

Ola

 

[anetode]

It might seam strange but this very advanced robot was designed in SAE units. I suspect it was due to the company's ability to source a better selection of things like bearings and gears if they used SAE vs metric standards.

Right now I'm drafting something in metric, yet I still have to deal with SAE parts because of sourcing. It's a self-perpetuating system where everyone makes out but the customer and the service guys.

 

[sweet victory]

The only two cars I work on in my garage are a Toyota and a Porsche. So just about all of my tools are metric. Last night I needed to adjust the aftermarket shifter in the Porsche. It has a numeric racing shifter assembly and a function first shift knob, which were designed in the US. The shift knob used SAE socket head cap screws. You can get away with using metric wrenches on sae fasteners, but you're going to end up with a lot of rounded out fasteners if you try to use metric bits in sae socket head cap screws. Luckily, an SAE bit socket set is one of the few non metric tools that I own.

 

[xin]

Metric is the only system that really makes sense.

 

[scubadoober]

the russians crashed metric fasteners on the moon ten years before the us landed apollo 11 there.

fify

 

[larry_g]

SAE im almost positive wont be around or used in a couple years.

I heard that same sentiment in the '70's. Sae is still alive and kicking in many industries. You just need to pull your head out from under the hood and look around.

lg
no neat sig line