Metric VS Standard fasteners

[GTVi]

Metric is superior. The proof is that the japanese, swiss and germans use the metric system.
case closed

...and Australia !

I don't know how this relates to the OP's question though...
So is there any way you can tell if a fastener is metric or standard? or should I just figure its metric?

I think he has committed suicide after reading everyone else's response

 

[GTVi]

I would love to see metric fasteners on all automobiles go to either even or odd numbers. The number one reason I hate working on metric cars is they use all the damn sizes and I cannot eyeball them. Why they feel the need to build a car using 7,8,10,11,12,13,14,15,and 18mm is ridiculous. At least with SAE I can tell the sizes by looking at them because they are 1/16" increments.

Most of the bolt sizes on my Mitsubishi are 6, 8 and 10, (and the few 12 and 14) good thinking from the ****...I can tell them apart from 3 feet away...oops I mean 1 meter away....lol

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Ever tried reading a metric grade stake? Metric and dirt work don't sync up well. The old tried and true "tenth" (1.2 inches) is still the standard for a reason. Centimeters aren't big enough, Meters are too big. Even Decimeters would have to be fractionalized to get the same degree of accuracy.

Do you seriously think people who work in metric struggle to construct buildings? How are centimetres not big enough? Worried about using numbers that are too big? "oh noes, 30cm is too big of a number, better use 12 inches! That's stupid.

You don't fractionalise decimeters, that completely defeats the object of the metric system. Seems that you genuinely don't understand the concept of the metric system, despite saying you do.

FYI, the rest of the world designs and constructs buildings working in metric. It is still easier than Imperial.

Tenths of a foot? That's some funny **** right there!

Your ignorance and arrogance apparently knows no bounds. You might as well quit arguing with people, you'll never win and the points you try to make don't make any sense at all.

 

[Monte]

The whole world use the metric system... except the black marked countries.....

 

[cglasgow]

You don't fractionalise decimeters

Sure you do -- they're called centimeters. 1/10 is a fraction. ;-)

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

OK, you sucked me back in.

Fine, you win. You're going to just keep convoluting things to try and support your opinion, and I'm really tired of playing along. You've actually taken my observation that a centimeter is too damned small for dirt work, and followed up with saying "extreme precision is not important for road building". Well isn't that exactly what I said? Meters aren't precise enough, Centimeters are too precise. Thanks for repeating EXACTLY WHAT I SAID, but turning it into an argument.

It's apparent that you wouldn't make it an hour in my world before someone force fed you your teeth, and it should have been obvious to me right off the bat.

 

[Monte]

1546,42 Meter ... .Why is that not precise ? Precise up to 1 cm

 

[dledinger]

This reminds me of an old neighbor hiring help for his construction business in the summer. He'd ask one question on the interview, "how many eighths are in an inch"?

That question weeded out a lot of unqualified individuals!

 

[cglasgow]

This reminds me of an old neighbor hiring help for his construction business in the summer. He'd ask one question on the interview, "how many eighths are in an inch"?

That question weeded out a lot of unqualified individuals!

Not long ago I was at the deli counter and asked for a quarter pound of cheese (I'm in the US). The clerk just looked at me blankly and said, "How much?" "A quarter pound, please." She said, "How much is that?" I had to tell her "zero point two five."

So not only are we not using metric, apparently we also no longer teach Imperial. I'm sure if I had asked for 0.1 kilo I would have gotten an even blanker stare. Maybe I should have just pantomimed "a chunk about this big." ;-)

 

[Monte]

Not long ago I was at the deli counter and asked for a quarter pound of cheese (I'm in the US). The clerk just looked at me blankly and said, "How much?" "A quarter pound, please." She said, "How much is that?" I had to tell her "zero point two five."

So not only are we not using metric, apparently we also no longer teach Imperial. I'm sure if I had asked for 0.1 kilo I would have gotten an even blanker stare. Maybe I should have just pantomimed "a chunk about this big." ;-)

next time order 250 gramm

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

I really don't undertsand what all the fuss is about...who cares how many decimal places you need "in thoery" to be accurate when using fractions while metric requires much less....blah, blah blah...."thoery" doesn't matter much once the design has been set in place and the product is produced...

I'm no expert - there's obviously people here with much more knowledge than I who may well try to shoot holes in my story in some way, but my experinece is this:
ALL fasteners are made within certain tolorances. All drills and taps to make threaded holes for said fasteners are desinged within a certain tolorance for class of fit....those tenths of thousandths ya'll are fitting over doesn't amount to anything in the real world of working on stuff....I can drill and tap by hand either metric or standard holes and put the **** together and not worry about it -- lots of stuff out there I've done - **** that MFR's and self proclaimed experts swore the components had to be removed and had to be repaired in machine shop.... never had a failure at all, let alone one that those experts would say "Shame it failed - would have been a good repair if he'd used metric instead of standard - since it's soo much better".

I understand a lot the theory here which is correct for either side of the argument, but the fighting over this is crazy.....

....and besides all of that - God used Cubits - so when the end comes, both systems may well end up being considered EVIL!

 

[garfunkle24]

It's apparent that you wouldn't make it an hour in my world before someone force fed you your teeth, and it should have been obvious to me right off the bat.

There you go with the superiority complex again. If you mean I wouldn't make it in your world as a heavy equipment tech; I am one, genius.

But honestly, given the current population of your world, I wouldn't want to be there.

How come one minute you're implying we're all idiots and the next that we're the frikkin Illuminati with our damn "facts" and "evidence".

Now I'm not sure whether you have a superiority complex or are just attempting to cover an inferiority complex.

 

[Davo3]

So, what have we learned?

1. Decimals are easier than fractions, especially for mixed units. Check.

2. Both Imperial and Metric can be subdivided and subdivided to dimensions approaching zero, in theory without end - so their accuracy is equivalent, even if their ease of use may not be (see 1., above). Check.

3. Some people prefer one over the other, based on various conditions including upbringing and what they work with most in their particular industries or hobbies. Check.

 

[magnusk750]

add to this... whitworth and british imperial thread

Add also British Standard Cycle thread BSC, Cycle Engineers Institute thread CEI, British Association thread BA and dont forget there are two Whitworths, fine and coarse...

Seriously, I couldn't imagine that US still haven't gone metric until I joined GJ, it's cool to widen your world. For construction inch and ft makes some kind of sense. It's more tricky to calculate but as the measures imaginates from parts of our body they somehow makes sense. One inch makes an exellent sturdy siding board, while todays standard, here where I live it's 22 mm and thats a bit wobbly. But for cars and bikes I must say I prefer metrics even if I've been working also on british 1950s bikes.

 

[W650Mike]

This thread is typical of the passionate debates that will continue to keep our country at a trade disadvantage for many years to come. As the older generation passes the torch to the younger, we will eventually catch up with the rest of the world. And until then we get to buy more tools!

I work in both US Customary and SI. Fortunately (or not) I’ve become fluid in both – but with a very strong preference for SI. It’s not a matter of whether or not I’m smart enough to add fractions.

The Am Chopper vid is as hilarious as this thread!

 

[Alchymist]

I agree with most of what you say, but the metric system does have some arbitrariness about it. The fundamental unit of length (the Meter) is itself arbitrary. Likewise for the gram. There's nothing fundamental in nature that defines the length of the meter or the mass of the gram. The meter was essentially picked to be similar to the yard in length. Subsequently, SI units have been redefined in ways that tie them to fairly fundamental things but this is sort of a retrospective affair.

There are systems of measurement that are tied to fundamental constants of the universe called "Natural Units". Physicists use them quite frequently since they simplify many calculations (for example, E=mc^2 becomes E=m in many natural units systems since the speed of light "C" is 1 in these systems). Natural units are typically defined in terms of Plank's constant, the speed of light in a vacuum, the fundamental electrical charge, Boltzman's constant, etc.. Unfortunately the scale of these units don't typically lend themselves to measure macroscopic things like the size of a bolt.

While I was raised on inches, feet, miles, pounds and tons, I do agree that the metric system is easier to work in. There's no computation required to know what size comes between 13mm and 15mm, all you've got to do is count.

Just to keep the record straight:

The meter was originally derived from the length of a pendulum of a certain period, later redefined to be a FRACTION of the Paris Meridian, (inaccurately as it turned out), and again later to be "the distance traveled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1⁄299792458 of a second.

The yard was originally the "distance between the king's nose and the tip of his thumb with arm outstretched".

Then of course Noah's Ark was measured in cubits........

 

[skiingman]

who cares how many decimal places you need "in thoery" to be accurate when using fractions while metric requires much less....blah, blah blah...."thoery" doesn't matter much once the design has been set in place and the product is produced...

Depends on the product. The people who care absolutely should not be the users or wrenchers.

those tenths of thousandths ya'll are fitting over doesn't amount to anything in the real world of working on stuff

How do you build a machine that builds a 32nm transistor?

If your experience is bolting low value stuff like cars or machinery together, you are absolutely correct that it is designed to be cheaply made and cheaply fixed and just about anything with threads will work. Do us all a favor and don't take your hubris to working on airplanes.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

There you go with the superiority complex again. If you mean I wouldn't make it in your world as a heavy equipment tech; I am one, genius.

But honestly, given the current population of your world, I wouldn't want to be there.

How come one minute you're implying we're all idiots and the next that we're the frikkin Illuminati with our damn "facts" and "evidence".

Now I'm not sure whether you have a superiority complex or are just attempting to cover an inferiority complex.

Actually I was referring to the people that I surround myself with. If there's one thing that there is no tolerance for in this game, it's people with a chip on their shoulder running their mouths. And just so you know, I gave up the mobile equipment thing months ago. After spending the majority of my life operating and/or repairing the damned things it was time for a change. Now I work in the fixed side of things (millwright) where metric has made virtually no incursion. The ONLY metric in my gangbox is a Craftsman crescent wrench that has metric markings and a set of folding hex keys that have never been used. Could it be that metric isn't as universal as some would imply?

I never implied that anyone was an idiot, that was your own assumption. Perhaps you should consider getting some help for that persecution complex. I never implied anyone was "superior" either, what I did do was take a jab at the raging narcissism possessed by some of the metric cheerleaders.

 

[Alchymist]

Now I work in the fixed side of things (millwright) where metric has made virtually no incursion. The ONLY metric in my gangbox is a Craftsman crescent wrench that has metric markings and a set of folding hex keys that have never been used. Could it be that metric isn't as universal as some would imply?

Spent the last 8 years working on military ECM & radar gear. Not a metric fastener or fitting one.....