Between 705 & 1200 SQ/FT Mick's Thunderbird Garage

[mfg0772]

Mick - I have seen you post over on Andy's thread for a while now. As someone mentioned on another thread, those with similar garages (i.e. messy work spaces vs showrooms) seem to group together. Seeing as I found your thread via Andy, I am sure I will enjoy the ride hear and glad to get in early.

Mike

 

[mfg0772]

PS - I am looking to add a sub panel in my garage so I would love to hear more about how you went about it.

 

[Toothaker]

Mick - I have seen you post over on Andy's thread for a while now. As someone mentioned on another thread, those with similar garages (i.e. messy work spaces vs showrooms) seem to group together. Seeing as I found your thread via Andy, I am sure I will enjoy the ride hear and glad to get in early.

PS - I am looking to add a sub panel in my garage so I would love to hear more about how you went about it.

Mike

Mike, I agree that those with similar garages need to stick together. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy looking at the Garage Mahals. But it's not me. Just as my home will never, ever be featured in Architectural Digest, my garage isn't a showplace. But just because it's not a showplace doesn't mean it can't be clean, organized, safe and a productive place to work on things. For too long it was a parking spot and warehouse. There were tools scattered about, and I could shuffle things around and get things done, but it wasn't safe and it wasn't a productive space.

There's not much to say about the sub panel. I had done two sub panels in a prior home, both 60 A, and small enough they didn't need a main to cut off power.

I decided I wanted to add a panel when I discussed the project with the builder. We bought a spec home from a builder that did good work - and we bought it while under construction. We made minor, very minor changes as it was built: natural gas stove and clothes dryer, a few extra outlets, exterior colors and tile and flooring selections. Other than that, completely stock.

The day we moved in, there was one outlet in the garage. I added a circuit on the west wall, and a few months later added a 20A 230 circuit for the irrigation well. And for 17 years, that's what we had. Oh, I added a second 20 A 120 circuit about 8 years ago. That's it, three 20 A and a well.

So I bought a 100 A panel at Lowes about a year ago, but then real life intervened and it sat. Plus, I was pondering where to put it. I thought about the unfinished North wall - sleek and finished look. But, after much consideration I put it surface mounted on the finished West wall - the common wall with the house and attached garage. I bought a 10 foot two inch conduit, which worked out exactly what I needed. Approximately 3.5' goes down to the basement to get the AL 2-2-2-6 SER feed wire, with an elbow (but that's not what the electricians call it), 2' goes to the unfinished North wall to feed the existing circuits - I pulled the existing circuits back from the main panel and rerouted them to the new sub. Finally the remainder of the conduit goes up into the attic where the new circuits will go. I added another 20 A 120VAC circuit, a 40 A electric heater circuit and a 40 A compressor circuit. I live in an area where NM-b is permitted, but the conduit keeps it organized in the visible part of the garage. Behind the scenes it runs like regular Romex.

Hang around in the Lighting and Electrical sub-forum. There is a wealth of information, and the sub panel topic comes up a lot. A lot.

 

[Toothaker]

What all have I learned in the Lighting and Electrical sub-forum?

• All outlets need to be GFCI protected in a garage.
• Aluminum SER 2-2-2-6 is permitted to carry 90A.
• What "dwelling" means in the NEC.
• Eaton BR panels and circuit breakers have a terrible reputation.
• Electrical codes vary across the country, even with the NEC.
• Some states allow homeowners to do electrical work on their own home.
• GJ members ask the same questions a lot.
• Oh, and I could have mounted the panel upside down, with the main at the bottom, and cleaned up how the wires run inside the panel.

 

[^&right]

LOVE Thunderbirds! Keep the pics and posts coming. Grandpa had a '56, Dad bought a new '79, kept a fully loaded '73 polished for a Ford dealer owner as a kid. It was the first car they got in that stickered over $10k so he kept it for himself.

More pics and congrats on rescuing a great car!

 

[Toothaker]

(I must have read one of you previous posts wrong. I thought I read amuture rodeo, looks like it looks like you said Amateur Radio.)

I am so glad you clarified that! For what it's worth, I do that too. I read what I think it should say, not what it actually says. Yup, ham radio.

 

[Toothaker]

LOVE Thunderbirds! Keep the pics and posts coming. Grandpa had a '56, Dad bought a new '79, kept a fully loaded '73 polished for a Ford dealer owner as a kid. It was the first car they got in that stickered over $10k so he kept it for himself.

More pics and congrats on rescuing a great car!

Growing up in Central Texas in the mid 1970's, there was a newspaper story about two 13 year old boys that found a bundle of cash. It turns out it was drug money, or so the IRS said. Anyway, they take the cash to the nearest Ford dealer, and paid an adult to go in and buy a Thunderbird with some of the cash. They made it many miles before getting pulled over by a suspicious cop who could only see a bit of the top of the driver's head. I always thought it was funny (noteworthy) they chose a TBird over any other car. I got it, of course. I was driving a 1968 Mustang GT Convertible at the time.

Thanks for stopping by, ^&right, and stick around.

 

[xtremek]

First, I'm glad you started a thread, more reading for me.

Second, if you haven't started running your hard lines, use CuNi lines, they're supposed to be the best and cheapest. I'm currently running a long term test on my Saturn(60K miles/1 year). It looked like you had stainless.

Third, whoever told you they needed to push the studs out to turn your rotors is an idiot. The bottom row of adapters are what you use to turn those rotors.

Fourth, when the pads sit in the same spot for a long time, you may end up with a hard spot in you rotor that causes a pulsation, Depending on how long they sat in one spot, will be how big and deep the hard spot is. I had to throw mine out, I couldn't turn the spots out. But I'd try what you're doing, you've got nothing to loose.

 

[Toothaker]

First, I'm glad you started a thread, more reading for me.

Second, if you haven't started running your hard lines, use CuNi lines, they're supposed to be the best and cheapest. I'm currently running a long term test on my Saturn(60K miles/1 year). It looked like you had stainless.

Third, whoever told you they needed to push the studs out to turn your rotors is an idiot. The bottom row of adapters are what you use to turn those rotors.

Fourth, when the pads sit in the same spot for a long time, you may end up with a hard spot in you rotor that causes a pulsation, Depending on how long they sat in one spot, will be how big and deep the hard spot is. I had to throw mine out, I couldn't turn the spots out. But I'd try what you're doing, you've got nothing to loose.

What? Somebody from O'Reilly's doesn't know what they're talking about? Say it isn't so! Yeah, that was a huge contributing factor to why I didn't want to press out the studs. Actually, to quote the assistant manager, "beat them out with a really big hammer." Yeah, I'll get right on that.

Looking close after the derusting bath, there doesn't appear to be pad marks or uneven wear.

I have steel lines. The original steel lines on the car lasted 48 years, so I figured steel lines would be fine to replace them. I knew about SS and how it could be a challenge to a novice (me). I didn't know about CuNi, though. I haven't started to run the lines yet.

Edit: Where are my manners? Thanks for stopping by Kirk. I very much appreciate your thread.

Second edit. If I have pulsing I will yank the rotors off off and find somebody who will turn them. I'm gonna make that penny scream before I let go of it.

 

[bj383ss]

The garage is what got my vote when my wife and I were shopping for a new home. 28 feet deep, 35 feet wide, 10 foot tall. The third bay is "only" 24 feet deep. That, and the street address is all ones and zeros. I am such a geek.

Thanks for stopping by Bob.

I have to quote this one. My first house was 1010. I thought that would be easy to say and easy to remember. HAHA
Bret

 

[Toothaker]

Another flashback, this one from about 6 days ago.

I decide to get the front wheels off and start the brake system work.

I have a nice Craftsman 3 ton floor jack, which I got a year ago from a neighbor who was moving away. "Mick, you can have this. It doesn't work. It goes up, then goes down by itself. I've added oil, but still does it. It's not safe, but if you want to try to fix it, you can have it." So I took it, and thought I'd fixed it, but randomly unscrewing things until air and oil came bubbling out. When I was done, it worked, but had the "air in the hydraulic lines" sound to it. But I could stand on it, and it didn't go down. That's a good test, right?

Ignoring the tiny voice in my head, I started jacking up the front of the TBird. Now, this car weighs 4400 lbs, and a lot of that weight is in the front. Nah, I know what I'm doing. I get it up to about halfway, high enough most of the weight is off the wheels, but enough I can pull the lugnuts without the wheel/tire moving. I get the wheels off, barely, and resume jacking. Nope, the car isn't going up. In fact, it may be going down slowly. I quickly got jackstands under things, and took the weight off the jack. Whew. Ok, what time does HF close? I need a new jack. Umm. Maybe I can fix this one.

Now, a key point to this story. I didn't have the manual, and I hadn't searched for the manual.

I get some oil. I take the checkvalve out. Oil and air come out, making a mess. Ah! I raise the jack all the way, and open the check valve. Oil comes out, making a great imitation of Hawaiian lava flows - inexorably flowing all over. Hmmm. I know you fill this with it raised. Then I look around and find the actual oil fill spot. Ok, got it. Raise it up, fill the oil to the brim, replace the plug, and them lower it quickly. Now, I'm tall - 6'7" (200 cm) and I'm looking down at the jack as I lower it. My face is maybe six feet from it. When it comes down, it goes off, not like a Hawaiian volcano. Nope, it does a great imitation of Mt. St. Helens. Blam, whoosh gurble. All over the garage. And my face. My shirt. The car. Anything in a 12 foot radius.

All those light tan spots, freckles if you will, on the floor are the oil stains from the stupid jack owner.

I read the manual, came back the next day and fixed the jack and finished raising the car.

Edit: do NOT follow any "instructions" you read in this post! Don't do it. It's wrong. To follow any of my steps will cause death, destruction of the vehicle you are lifting, raise your insurance rates and make your wife a widow and your friends will console her in ways you might not approve. If you don't die, people will laugh at you for all time.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Was it really 1010 or was it 5?

 

[xtremek]

......I have steel lines.......... I didn't know about CuNi, though. I haven't started to run the lines yet.

........ I very much appreciate your thread.

..........I'm gonna make that penny scream before I let go of it.

Go the Copper Nickel route, better in the long run. Actually, I do think it's a little more than the steel, but it bends easier, and won't rust. I don't think AZ or O'Reilly's around here even stock the steel anymore.

I'm glad you enjoyed dropping in on my thread.

And I so hear you on the penny thing. I'm learning that sometimes, it's cheaper to pay a little more up front, because you save in the long run. But I can still tell the front of the t-shirts I work in by where the welding burn holes are.

 

[Toothaker]

Was it really 1010 or was it 5?

Four plus two is six, Andy.

Edit. Now I'm messed up. Eight plus two is ten, Andy.

 

[Toothaker]

Go the Copper Nickel route, better in the long run. Actually, I do think it's a little more than the steel, but it bends easier, and won't rust. I don't think AZ or O'Reilly's around here even stock the steel anymore.

I'm glad you enjoyed dropping in on my thread.

And I so hear you on the penny thing. I'm learning that sometimes, it's cheaper to pay a little more up front, because you save in the long run. But I can still tell the front of the t-shirts I work in by where the welding burn holes are.

I know, I know. Dang it, I don't want to buy a new 1970 Thunderbird one part at a time. I want to fix what I've got. I really want to use these rotors.

I'll look around for some Copper Nickel lines. The more I read, the better they sound.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Four plus two is six, Andy.

Edit. Now I'm messed up. Eight plus two is ten, Andy.

I'm Chinese, I read left to right.

 

[Toothaker]

I'm Chinese, I read left to right.

Ah! Bigendian vs. littleendian. Got it.

Geek humor. Not funny even after it gets explained.

 

[dchance]

Glad to see your thread and the things that you have been up to.

Snow already, winter may be early.

Dwight

 

[oldironfarmer]

That jack looks brand new! Great restoration!!

 

[jblnut]

Ah! Bigendian vs. littleendian. Got it.

Geek humor. Not funny even after it gets explained.

Not gonna lie, I giggled.

Ironically, I was going through some of my old notes from "back when" and stumbled upon an endian joke and giggled. Now I see an endian joke on the GJ of all places !!!

"The whole class was confused after Jimmy sang 10 little endians and stopped at the second one."

We were to be given extra credit if we could explain why the joke was, or wasn't, invalid. We had fun with that one for awhile.

 

[Toothaker]

Not gonna lie, I giggled.

Ironically, I was going through some of my old notes from "back when" and stumbled upon an endian joke and giggled. Now I see an endian joke on the GJ of all places !!!

"The whole class was confused after Jimmy sang 10 little endians and stopped at the second one."

We were to be given extra credit if we could explain why the joke was, or wasn't, invalid. We had fun with that one for awhile.

I hoped somebody would get it. I hate being the only one in the theater laughing like the time I saw the movie The Net.

 

[oldironfarmer]

I rarely break boiled eggs, so I don't have a preference.

 

[don long]

Just checking in to say Hi

I caught you over at Andys thread and thought I'd check out the happenings over here.
I like fords and used to own a 57 T-bird now it's 69 and 70 mustangs, model A and T to go with the herd and a 56 pick up and my latest ride is my 57 Lincoln mark 2

Great start on your new thread. Looks like it's moving pretty fast.
I like pictures much more than the print cause I read so slow. I'll drop back often

Don

 

[Toothaker]

Glad to see your thread and the things that you have been up to.

Snow already, winter may be early.

Dwight

Thanks for stopping by, Dwight. Yes, winter is really early this year. But hopefully a short warmup before it gets really cold.

That jack looks brand new! Great restoration!!

It had a nice oil bath to get all cleaned up for company, Andy.

Just checking in to say Hi

I caught you over at Andys thread and thought I'd check out the happenings over here.
I like fords and used to own a 57 T-bird now it's 69 and 70 mustangs, model A and T to go with the herd and a 56 pick up and my latest ride is my 57 Lincoln mark 2

Great start on your new thread. Looks like it's moving pretty fast.
I like pictures much more than the print cause I read so slow. I'll drop back often

Don

Don, thank you for stopping by. You have some great Fords! I really like the work you do, and I learn so much on all the many restoration threads like yours. And yes, I tend to talk too much and not enough pictures. I will work on that.

 

[xtremek]

Love the jack story. I've never done anything like that....ever. And now my nose is growing and I can't understand why.

 

[Finallygotit]

Subscribed! (About time!)

 

[Bob Heine]

I have a nice Craftsman 3 ton floor jack, which I got a year ago from a neighbor who was moving away. "Mick, you can have this. It doesn't work. It goes up, then goes down by itself. I've added oil, but still does it. It's not safe, but if you want to try to fix it, you can have it." So I took it, and thought I'd fixed it, but randomly unscrewing things until air and oil came bubbling out. When I was done, it worked, but had the "air in the hydraulic lines" sound to it. But I could stand on it, and it didn't go down. That's a good test, right?

Edit: do NOT follow any "instructions" you read in this post! Don't do it. It's wrong. To follow any of my steps will cause death, destruction of the vehicle you are lifting, raise your insurance rates and make your wife a widow and your friends will console her in ways you might not approve. If you don't die, people will laugh at you for all time.

Mick, that post scared me a little. I thought I had a Craftsman 3 ton jack that looked like yours that I rarely use. I had to check behind the '72 Corvette and whew, it was still there. Upon closer examination, I realized it isn't the same as yours but it has the same capacity.

Maybe I should spray a little oil on mine -- yours looks much better.

Edit: You do realize how warnings work on the GJ. Saying "Don't do this" is like telling a kid not to put beans up their nose. Emergency room, here we come. Sorry, I have go now. I need to bleed my jack.

 

[Toothaker]

Bob, I was actually thinking of you as I carefully reached in with my left arm to set the jackstands; I'm right handed so I was risking my non-dominant hand/arm.

 

[Toothaker]

The Rockauto shipment arrived. Rebuilt calipers.

The disk brake dust shields got back from their media blasting and powder coating.

Before you think I'm going overboard - ok, I am - realize they don't make this part anymore. They were both very rusted, and I wanted to preserve them.

Here's an oddity to me:

There were two different size heads on the bolts holding the dust shields. Same size thread, different head. I figure it is for clearance somehow. I will return them to the same spots.

Last night I had all the parts, and I was going to hang the dust shields, install the hub rotors, hang the calipers, etc. But I got to thinking, and that's dangerous for me to do too much thinking. I was thinking 'what is my time worth?' Not to say I'm an important guy, or that my time is more valuable than anyone else's... no, I'm thinking of the scarcity of my QST (quality shed time). And I got to thinking the rotors might need to be replaced. If that happens I will be back to about where I am, with the car jacked up, wheels, hub rotors and calipers off, replacing bearings, packing bearings, rehanging calipers... nope. Not gonna do it.

I ordered new rotor hubs from Rockauto. And I've got 25 feet of CuNi 3/16" brake line on the way too. I'll use the steel to become proficient at double flares.

 

[xtremek]

I think in the long run, this is the smart way of doing things. But what the hell fun is that?

 

[Toothaker]

snip

Sorry, I have go now. I need to bleed my jack.

Sorry, Bob, but that's officially TMI.

I think in the long run, this is the smart way of doing things. But what the hell fun is that?

 

[welder57]

Great read-love old Fords of any kind, cars or trucks!! Thanks for joining, we have some great guys and gals here to help in future, all you have to do is ask.

 

[Toothaker]

Great read-love old Fords of any kind, cars or trucks!! Thanks for joining, we have some great guys and gals here to help in future, all you have to do is ask.

Thanks, welder57. For what it's worth, there will be welding later. Or at least, I will have a welding gun in my hand at some point. It's likely anyone who knows how to weld will look at my work and say, "that ain't welding."

 

[Finallygotit]

........It's likely anyone who knows how to weld will look at my work and say, "that ain't welding."

No, they will say, "That's a start."



We have all been there at one point in our lives.

 

[Toothaker]

No, they will say, "That's a start."
We have all been there at one point in our lives.

Dan, thanks for the words of encouragement.

 

[xtremek]

Then there are those of us who will say, "Bird poop?" Then sheepishly admit we've ground off more than our fair share of welds. But only under sworn testimony.

 

[bj383ss]

Mick I have found myself in your rotor situation many times on my 64' restoration. The original part will work but should I save money and reuse it or buy a new part so that I don't have to take this apart or go back into something that is already put back together. There are a few things I did not rebuild that will get built later on when I have money for them.

No worries on the welding. I have a welder and I consider myself more of a grinder. Most of my work has been hidden under body filler and paint.

Bret

 

[oldironfarmer]

NO, go ahead and install the rotors and put the new ones on the shelf. You need the practice removing and reinstalling.

Powder coating parts which are not available and are exposed to the elements are the perfect job for powder coating.

Got a buddy who's a rig welder (you know, guys with the Lincoln welder and bottles on the back of their truck). Lots of rig welders have pretty fine home built beds. He says you'd be surprised how much Bondo is on some of those beds to finish up the welds.

 

[Toothaker]

Mick I have found myself in your rotor situation many times on my 64' restoration. The original part will work but should I save money and reuse it or buy a new part so that I don't have to take this apart or go back into something that is already put back together. There are a few things I did not rebuild that will get built later on when I have money for them.

No worries on the welding. I have a welder and I consider myself more of a grinder. Most of my work has been hidden under body filler and paint.

Bret

Bret, I do believe you are being modest. I am wading my way through your 75 page thread - I'm up in the 60's now - and I can assure you there isn't anything you need to make excuses for on that beautiful truck.

Edit: Actually, I can either give you the credit or the blame for the new rotors. I was reading your thread and got to the part about the new door. You'd worked on the original door for hours, welding, hammering, sanding and filling, and then it didn't fit right. You ordered a new door, and it was perfect. I had my new rotors on order within 10 minutes of reading that post. And the funny thing is, my concerns about 'do I reuse or replace' went away immediately.

 

[Toothaker]

NO, go ahead and install the rotors and put the new ones on the shelf. You need the practice removing and reinstalling.

Powder coating parts which are not available and are exposed to the elements are the perfect job for powder coating.

Got a buddy who's a rig welder (you know, guys with the Lincoln welder and bottles on the back of their truck). Lots of rig welders have pretty fine home built beds. He says you'd be surprised how much Bondo is on some of those beds to finish up the welds.

I got an email alert on my phone that somebody had updated the thread, and I glanced at the email. I read how somebody was telling me to go ahead and install the rotors; I needed the practice. So I jump in here... no, it's just Andy pulling my leg.