Between 485 & 705 SQ/FT Mid-Century Moto Mecca Makeover

[sakurama]

When you told me you got her an Ibis Mojo with 26" wheels, I was imagining it was one of the steel ones from the 90's with the sweet paintjobs. The one you got is pretty kitted out! Once she learns to use that dropper post there's no going back!

It's a funny thing, the surge of custom builders in the early/mid 2000's. We enabled the big bike makers to charge what they're charging now. In the case of the small builder, we're actually selling bikes at what I think is a "fair" profit margin...considering the capital expense, time and cost of parts and materials. Big brands, especially on the ultra high end, are KILLING IT.

Custom bikes are worth every penny - I've come to understand how much work is involved in making one off things. The mainstream brands and the cost of the components are what seem out of line and I guess that it makes sense when you illustrate your point on the forks. It feels like something isn't right when a high end motorcycle and bicycle are the same cost but the parts and technology are similar.

Looking forward to our ride tomorrow!

I'm very curious to try that Yeti - and a bit nervous. Mostly, I'm just hoping to keep you in site on the downhills!

G

 

[mepstein]

It'll be fun. We'll make something cool and I have no doubt your first bike will be amazing.



When you told me you got her an Ibis Mojo with 26" wheels, I was imagining it was one of the steel ones from the 90's with the sweet paintjobs. The one you got is pretty kitted out! Once she learns to use that dropper post there's no going back!


I've got that Yeti ready for you and we'll see how it goes tomorrow. Looking forward to not seeing the cougar that's been spotted up there this past week.



It's a funny thing, the surge of custom builders in the early/mid 2000's. We enabled the big bike makers to charge what they're charging now. In the case of the small builder, we're actually selling bikes at what I think is a "fair" profit margin...considering the capital expense, time and cost of parts and materials. Big brands, especially on the ultra high end, are KILLING IT. Case in point. Back in 2009, I had some QC issues with a prominent fork manufacturer. The fork retailed for $800 and my cost on it was about ~$475. The thru axles were drilled crooked and the wheel couldn't sit straight in the dropouts and their "fix" was to send me new lowers, which I had to install myself. Only the new lowers were obviously drilled on the same machine and it was a huge waste of my time and big cost to me. This went on for most of a year and I finally gave them hell about it. The new solution was to set me up with a "tier 1" account which is the same pricing that Specialized, Trek and the other big names get. The cost of the fork on tier 1...$138! I snapped up a few forks and you know what? They were all crooked so I vowed to never again purchase another products from that company even though I could make a 500% markup...and I haven't.

The same system applies with all the component makers. Big brands get huge discounts and yes, they have a great deal of overhead and investments to recoup BUT, those $15K bikes...the bike shops are getting ~20% margins when they can sell them at full retail. Specialized is getting paid $12K for a bike that likely have a landed cost of about ~$4K. They're actually doing much better than that when you consider how Specialized and Trek are squeezing bike shops into buying their branded products under threat of pulling out of the shop.

/educational hour. Looking forward to our ride tomorrow!

I worked in the bike industry for 6 years running an independent bike shop. It was before internet sales got big so we did well. I would never try to do it these days. The big names have been working to go direct to consumer for years. They only want bike shops to show their products and fix them. They don’t really support them at all.. Sort of like the auto industry.

 

[Bob Heine]

Sean, in 1879 our 15-year old son saved his money and bought himself a Schwinn Voyageur with a 25" frame (the dealer didn't have a Paramount). Schwinn was pretty proud of the Voyageur specs:

"Frame: Double-butted chrome-moly 4130 alloy steel tubing. Frame is lug construction. Head lugs, rear fork ends and front fork ends are chrome plated.
Frame Finish: Black.
Wheels: Araya aluminum alloy rims. Large flange aluminum alloy hubs.
Tires: 27" x 1 1/4" Schwinn-Approved LeTour.
Handlebars and Stem: Randonneur type aluminum alloy bar and forged aluminum alloy stem.
Crankset: 39-52 double plateau sprocket. 6 3/4" crank. Shimano Dura Ace.
Pedals: Rattrap SF with reflectors.
Derailleurs and Gears: GT-300 rear and Shimano "Titlest" front. 14-17-21-26-32 teeth. Fingertip gearshift controls.
Brakes: Schwinn-Approved alloy center pull alloy caliper with dual position levers.
Saddle Fujita Super.
Weight: 27-28 lbs., depending on frame size."

I believe he paid about $700 for it and 30 years later he traded it in for $100 toward a single speed beach cruiser. I went to the bike shop and told the owner our son made a mistake and bought it back -- for $150 -- because they looked over the bike. I converted the bike to one-hand Williams hydraulic brakes and rode the bike for a few years. I was uncomfortable with letting go of the handle bar to shift so I shifted with my feet (safer but still uncomfortable). Held on to the bike until his children were old enough to ride their own road bikes, converted the brakes back to original, replaced the tires, gave it a shine and tuneup and gifted the bike back to our son in 2011.

That 1979 $700 bike, just based on inflation, should cost ~$2,925 today.

 

[ebarker9]

Medium travel enduro or trail bike is both pretty easy and pretty challenging, because absolutely everyone makes one and there really aren't any that are "bad" at this point. A lot of it just boils down to what's available locally on the used market or what's carried by local shops if you're looking new. Consumer direct with YT, Canyon etc is also an option although I still like to try to support independent bike shops when possible.

I have a Santa Cruz Hightower, and I really like it, but I suspect that I'd also like pretty much all of the offerings in that category from the major brands. I did ride an Ibis Ripmo AF in Sedona last year, which I think was the lowest spec that they make of that bike at around $3600 and it was awesome. Things get slightly lighter, fancier, whatever as you go up in price from there but I'm really not sure that there's a significant improvement in the ride experience for the extra money. They seem like generally a decent company, not trying to buy out independent shops like a Trek or Specialized, so that might be my recommendation at a not crazy price point.

 

[GeddyT]

Sean, in 1879 our 15-year old son saved his money and bought himself a Schwinn Voyageur with a 25" frame (the dealer didn't have a Paramount). Schwinn was pretty proud of the Voyageur specs:

Oh come on Bob, you're not that old...

 

[gearhead1960]

Oh come on Bob, you're not that old...

....he should be, as many stories he can tell....

 

[mepstein]

Sean, in 1879 our 15-year old son saved his money and bought himself a Schwinn Voyageur with a 25" frame (the dealer didn't have a Paramount). Schwinn was pretty proud of the Voyageur specs:

"Frame: Double-butted chrome-moly 4130 alloy steel tubing. Frame is lug construction. Head lugs, rear fork ends and front fork ends are chrome plated.
Frame Finish: Black.
Wheels: Araya aluminum alloy rims. Large flange aluminum alloy hubs.
Tires: 27" x 1 1/4" Schwinn-Approved LeTour.
Handlebars and Stem: Randonneur type aluminum alloy bar and forged aluminum alloy stem.
Crankset: 39-52 double plateau sprocket. 6 3/4" crank. Shimano Dura Ace.
Pedals: Rattrap SF with reflectors.
Derailleurs and Gears: GT-300 rear and Shimano "Titlest" front. 14-17-21-26-32 teeth. Fingertip gearshift controls.
Brakes: Schwinn-Approved alloy center pull alloy caliper with dual position levers.
Saddle Fujita Super.
Weight: 27-28 lbs., depending on frame size."

I believe he paid about $700 for it and 30 years later he traded it in for $100 toward a single speed beach cruiser. I went to the bike shop and told the owner our son made a mistake and bought it back -- for $150 -- because they looked over the bike. I converted the bike to one-hand Williams hydraulic brakes and rode the bike for a few years. I was uncomfortable with letting go of the handle bar to shift so I shifted with my feet (safer but still uncomfortable). Held on to the bike until his children were old enough to ride their own road bikes, converted the brakes back to original, replaced the tires, gave it a shine and tuneup and gifted the bike back to our son in 2011.

That 1979 $700 bike, just based on inflation, should cost ~$2,925 today.

If the person riding that bike was to get the right size bike, they might enjoy it a lot more. I’m guessing someone around 5’9” on a bike meant for someone 6’4.

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

Medium travel enduro or trail bike is both pretty easy and pretty challenging, because absolutely everyone makes one and there really aren't any that are "bad" at this point. A lot of it just boils down to what's available locally on the used market or what's carried by local shops if you're looking new. Consumer direct with YT, Canyon etc is also an option although I still like to try to support independent bike shops when possible.

Pretty much. Just depends on how deep in the weeds you want to go and what your preferences are. If you're really picky (like I am) it's not always easy to find something that ticks all the boxes of expected maintenance, stiffness, pedal kickback, tire clearance, suspension behavior, max dropper length, water bottle access...etc

Fun ride today Gregor!

 

[jake28]

Chiming in from behind the scenes of the cycling industry, For anybody who has fallen into a similar rabbit hole to Gregor, in pursuit of a new mountain bike I’ll just say this: it’s a really good time to buy a bike. The surplus in inventory vs. post-COVID demand is pushing brands large and small to sell new bikes 20-50%.

@sakurama take a hard look at the Ibis ripmo if you want want an all-day bike with long legs that you can ride anything with a bit of finesse, or a Yeti SB160 or Evil Wreckoning if you want to point, shoot, and plow through things.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

Chiming in from behind the scenes of the cycling industry, For anybody who has fallen into a similar rabbit hole to Gregor, in pursuit of a new mountain bike I’ll just say this: it’s a really good time to buy a bike. The surplus in inventory vs. post-COVID demand is pushing brands large and small to sell new bikes 20-50%.

@sakurama take a hard look at the Ibis ripmo if you want want an all-day bike with long legs that you can ride anything with a bit of finesse, or a Yeti SB160 or Evil Wreckoning if you want to point, shoot, and plow through things.

It is crazy that you can buy new bikes right now for less than what a lot of people are trying to sale the same bike used for. I dont feel bad for the bike industry as they where over charging during covid, and then over produced instead of maintaining normal production levels.

I'd second the Evil recommendation, but I actually went from a wreckoning to ab Offering, with the right suspension setup it's more than capable of just about anything and pedals better. TheTransition Sentinel would also be a great bike. Both of those are designed here in the PNW for the trails we typically ride.

 

[mepstein]

Just like indoor bike trainers. Gold during the pandemic and now heavily discounted. The industry though it would go on forever

 

[GeddyT]

It is crazy that you can buy new bikes right now for less than what a lot of people are trying to sale the same bike used for. I dont feel bad for the bike industry as they where over charging during covid, and then over produced instead of maintaining normal production levels.

I'd second the Evil recommendation, but I actually went from a wreckoning to ab Offering, with the right suspension setup it's more than capable of just about anything and pedals better. TheTransition Sentinel would also be a great bike. Both of those are designed here in the PNW for the trails we typically ride.

Amen! I can't believe what I had to pay to get my son a bike for his birthday at the end of 2021. I was on a waiting list at YT for five months and was told the delivery date would be pushed back even another five months, well past his birthday. I live a couple of miles from Transition (drive past it to and from work every day), and happened into their shop the day after they got a pair of Scout frames in the small size my son would need. They had the bike built a few days later, but damn was that a tough bill to choke down. I justified it with the thought that I could recoup a lot of it when he outgrows it and I sell, but looks like that was wishful thinking.

Here it is now, barely a year and a half later, and my son's friend got a brand new looking Patrol carbon for under $1000...

 

[Sonus]

Another vote for a Transition Sentinel. Loved my 2022 NX Carbon and just passed it on to my 16 year old son when I bit the bullet and bought a cheater bike; a Trek Fuel EX-e

 

[sakurama]

Pretty much. Just depends on how deep in the weeds you want to go and what your preferences are. If you're really picky (like I am) it's not always easy to find something that ticks all the boxes of expected maintenance, stiffness, pedal kickback, tire clearance, suspension behavior, max dropper length, water bottle access...etc

Fun ride today Gregor!

Sean and I went out on Thursday to Sandy Ridge and he let me ride his Yeti SB6 and wow, what an amazing bike. Maybe a little stiff for me but boy I've never been on a bike that climbed so well or handled so well.

Sean is a very skilled rider and while I can keep up on the way up there's no way I can keep him in sight on the way down.



That's about as much as I saw of him. Sadly I ended up crashing in a rock garden when I stalled and couldn't unclip... and scratched the bike. I'm pretty sure that means I have to buy it. The technology of the modern mountain bike is just amazing and Seans ability to set it up is pretty phenomenal.

As for the Ibis - I've owned two of them and don't think I want to own another. Nothing wrong with them - I love the one I got for Nadia - but I think I want something different.

Hopefully Sean and I can keep up with weekly rides. Riding a mountain bike doesn't feel like working out but our heart rate monitors were certainly telling us another story.

Gregor

 

[sakurama]

I've not been posting for a few reasons. One is that I've been super busy with work. I have a job for a week and when I get back it's my week with the kids and the the next week I'm away again. I'm not complaining - work is good and it's been fun but there's been no time for projects. When I'm home I'm scrambling to catch up, always behind.

The person I was dating got me back into bicycling and that's been a reprieve despite the relationship not working out. I'm grateful for that and not sad about the breakup. Riding has been a way to stay in shape, clear my head and get out and meet people. I'm grateful for that.



After riding about a dozen different mountain bikes I sort of gave up. This Specialized Evo was pretty cheap and had electronic shifting and 29" wheels - both things I was pretty sure I didn't want. But also things I wasn't familiar with so I decided that rather than waste the summer looking for a "perfect" bike I'd get something cheaper so I could get Lucas a new bike as he outgrew his bike as well.



I managed to carve out 4 days between jobs and took the bike to Hood River, Bend, McKenzie River and Black Rock and finally my fitness is starting to build. I've done a few dates to ride bikes and until just recently was pretty much getting my *** kicked every time. At least on the climbs. This week marks the first time I managed to not be the person dying on the climbs.



I found a second Ibis Mojo for Lucas and to my surprise he absolutely loves his new bike. Taking my brothers advice I've tried to make all our outings fun without any of the "work" or suffering that is a normal part of a cross country ride. Last week we went to Timberline and did the lifts and the kids had a great time.



Lucas kept crashing and Nadia spent the whole time going, "Wheeeee!" and they were exhausted at the end. My strategy for the summer has been letting them "earn" screen time by getting out of the house. It feels like such a bad bargain but the results have been pretty positive. They love their new bikes and they're becoming more adventurous and independent and will leave the house for "adventures" of several hours, going into town, getting food, going to the park and so I take that as a win.



I mentioned that the Evo is a 29'er and has the Sram AXS electronic shifting. The electronic shifting I love, the 29's I'm less sure of. I picked up a second set of wheels in 27.5+ and the bike feels much more nimble and quick. I certainly get the way the 29's roll over everything but they feel slow. I'm going to keep swapping them to get to know them. I'm not interested in a mullet setup but who knows, I may try it.

The other reason I've not been posting is that Lara, my sister, is not doing well.

If you recall a few years ago when we took our Saku-Moto trip she got pretty lost. She has been complaining of losing her memory and forgetting things for a while but my brother and I sort of discounted it - we all do that. But recently she was diagnosed with Early Onset Dementia and it seems to be rather aggressive to the point that I'm flying to FL to bring her home to live with my Mom because it's become too difficult for her to live on her own.

I'm not sure how to even process this. It's unfair and it's heart breaking yet Lara seems to have a positive outlook. Mostly I'm just extremely sad and I don't know quite what to do about it.

I'm trying to appreciate what I have - my friends and my health. And I'm riding. A lot.

Gregor

 

[strokinhorns]

I always look forward to your updates Gregor. your interest in all things mechanical inspires me to try new things. The news about Lara breaks my heart. I have enjoyed her presence in your posts. I will hold you both in my heart and prayers.

 

[trojandj]

Gregor, all I can offer is this virtual, moral support hug. . Its also fair for you to take some time to process everything.

 

[Sham]

I am so sorry for what your sister, your family, and you are going through. For what it's worth, I'm sending good vibes from the other side of the pond.
Hang in there brother.

 

[smschriefer]

Terribly sorry to hear about Lara. Hindsight is always easier to spot the trends that are overlooked and you and your family shouldn't be hard on themselves. We're all human and we try not to think anything bad is happening in circumstances like this. We're starting this with my MIL and all I can say is try to stay positive and not make her aware when she doesn't remember things. Find those things that bring you enjoyment and from the sounds of it, just ride and let stuff go. For me it is actually mowing the yard. I find it is just a peaceful time for me to reflect and develop an inner calm. Best wishes to you and your family.

 

[rvieceli]

Gregor sorry to hear about Lara. I always enjoyed it when she was a part of your projects. It is a horrible insidious disease. Thoughts and prayers to you and your family.

Hang in there and keep doing things that make you and your kids happy.

Living with your mom, will that be close to you?

Ron

 

[elvee]

Very sorry to hear that news Gregor. I was glad to see a post from you, and the catching up stuff sounds like things have been pretty good. That last section was a gut punch for me, and I can't imagine what it is for you and your family. I'll be keeping all of you in my thoughts.

 

[LeonardY]

Gregor,

Truly sorry to her about your sister, Lara.

Our family has a similar situation. My BIL sister has had dementia for over 30 years. The family has managed and coped and she is safe and well cared for.

I hope the same for your sister and your entire family.

Be well. The best for you and your family.

Leonard

 

[gearhead1960]

Gregor,

Lara is such a shining star as part of your story. So sorry to hear of her medical issue. I wish her all the best.....

 

[zanyad]

Gregor, glad to hear you're well. So very sorry to hear about your sister.

 

[racer-john]

Very sorry to hear about your sister.

 

[kjdhawkhill]

Sorry to hear about Lara's struggles. There's nothing I can say here that will make it easier, but enjoy the person you know for as long as you can.

You're killing the parenting part. Mine are a little younger and our terrain a little less epic, but there's nothing cooler than a kid crashing into the brush and popping back up with determination to finish the ride.

 

[Horror Business]

Very sorry to hear the update on your sister.

 

[bugnut]

Gregor, enjoy and visit your sister. Best of thoughts and prayers.

 

[Novadave]

So sorry to hear about your sister Gregor. Having lost a close family member recently, its the memories that stay with you. Make some memories, your very good at that.

 

[jon72vega]

Gregor,
So sorry to hear the news about Laura.
Dementia is a horrible disease.

 

[Bob Heine]

Gregor, like many of us, I witnessed my mother's elder dementia progress up close. I was fortunate to be retired and living nearby so I spent time with her every day for her last five years. I would not wish the disease on anyone, especially your sister Lara but there are days when the haze clears and you get to spend time with the person you know is still in there. I suspect you have a few photo albums, which are a great tool to help trigger memories. Take care of your mother and Lara and when you need a place to vent, this one is pretty good.

 

[kap384]

Gregor, my heart goes out to you. My mother had early onset as well. It's cruel that it happens so young. I wish you all the best and so sorry to hear about Lara. The wormholes of your thread have been a wonderful place to spend time for so many of us.

 

[MXmaniac]

Thank you for the update. I’m inspired by your shop, skills, and, not the least of which, your perspective to put family and self care first.

I saw your bike at the One show this year, so friggin’ cool.

I live 30 minutes from black rock and have done an awful lot of laps there. While MTB has brought real trauma to my life (my wife suffered a spinal cord injury 10 years ago and has been in a chair ever since), it has also given me so much time to think, feel alive, and be present in the moment. My buddies and I do a lot of reflecting while pedaling up that hill!

Keep it up, I’m hoping for the best.

 

[octane_matty]

good seeing a MTB crossover Gregor
could someday we see a carbon frame motorbike?

 

[GeddyT]

Like everyone else, truly sorry to hear about Lara. It was your 950 Mission Creep thread at ADVRider that brought me to Garage Journal, my journey here starting right in this very thread, and Lara was introduced pretty early on.

On a positive note, good to see you (re)finding a new hobby in mountain biking. We have a few similarities, and two of them are a boy and a girl the same age as your kids and recently diving into mountain biking. I think it was finally giving up on my son embracing the dirt bike (scared him) and seeing him glom onto the mountain bike that prompted me to hang up the moto and jump onto the pedals. I bought my friend's pretty nice mountain bike he was upgrading from, bought my son an even nicer one because that's all I could find during the pandemic, and we've been riding together for the last couple of years.

Glad to see you back posting, and good luck with everything.

 

[cfour]

We lost my uncle to dementia, he deteriorated to a point and stayed there for years (happily enough) before essentially relapsing and getting worse over a couple of years which prove to be his last. hopefully they have caught it early enough and modern medicine can crank out another miracle, Lara genuinely seems like one of the good ones. all the best.

 

[OJKD]

I am so sorry to heat about Lara. Dementia is awful. There is so much good information about how to handle it, but there is very little treatment.

You have had a rough time. Depression is a sneaky *******. Don't be afraid to ask for help. It's easy to veer off course without noticing, and it can take a lot of time to get back.

You are doing great. Also, I get all my parenting and life advise from Bluey, the kids show, highly recommend.

 

[burger]

Hello Gregor,

So so so sorry to hear that your sister is showing early dementia. That’s awful. I feel really badly for her. She is way too young. Like most who have replied, I also have family experience. My grandmother passed about ten years ago and she suffered from dementia. I can’t tell you how many times she told me about how her high school was renovated and they added a swimming pool. There were awkward things like how she would take overweight family members aside and confide with them that she lost a lot of weight by avoiding mayonnaise and sugar. And she would do it over and over again to the same person, forgetting each time. But mostly she just wasn’t there. It was a huge struggle for my parents to take care of her to the end. It’s a horrible disease.


Best wishes,

Keep on keeping on,


Ed

 

[sakurama]

Thanks all of you for the replies and sharing your stories. I have already cut out sugar (except for in my coffee - I just can't give that up) and I suppose now I'll consider mayonnaise.

If you followed along on Instagram (I know a lot of you don't) you'll see that we made the trip from FL to Colorado without incident. I feel pretty bad that Sacha and I didn't recognize or believe this was happening but at the same time even people who were living with her didn't see it for what it was.

When I got to Florida I saw her notes about appointments and todo's and that's when it really hit me - her previously neat writing looked like it was written by a four year old, misspelled and sloppy. While Lara was not excited about moving, she loves the warm weather and sun of FL, she also accepts that she needs help.

The trip was actually pretty fun despite the 100+F temps crossing the south. It's hard to reconcile what is happening. She is still sharp and aware but can be flustered but routine things like her contact lenses - are they in or not? She puts her glasses on with contacts in and can't understand why things are blurry.



This is Westcliffe, the town I grew up in and that Lara has spent a lot of time in. My fathers old building is behind me. We did the trip in four days, had a lot of good conversations and weathered the heat without breaking down in her old Toyota Four Runner.

I don't think Lara is happy to be in Colorado but right now we don't know what other option there is. Honestly we just don't know and so we'll try to help her get set up with a doctor and a care plan and see how things go.



After arriving in Salida I rented a bike and Sacha, my brother, and his son Amato and wife Diane took me on a ride - Monarch Crest at 11,500' and while I was really worried that I'd just collapse from lack of oxygen I managed the ride without incident. We rode the Crest to Greens Creek which changed my mind about 29" wheels - the trails of the PNW are groomed, smooth and have plenty of grip. The descent on Greens was steep, filled with rocks, loose and narrow. The 29'r just rolled over all of it.



Despite the altitude my legs held up and I managed the whole ride and kept pace. It was a blast and the Santa Cruz Hightower that I rented was an amazing bike. It made my Specialized seem slow and ponderous. By the end of the 25 mile ride I was as exhausted and spent as anything I've ever done. Just nothing left in the tank. I think if it wasn't for the altitude I'd have probably felt much better but Sacha was impressed and said I was as fast as ever - so I feel good about that.

Thanks for all the support. I hoped that the trip would bring some clarity and it didn't. It made the whole thing much harder to understand. In the end I want Lara to be happy for as long as she can be and we don't know what that looks like or how to make that happen. Hopefully it's something we can figure out.

Gregor

 

[Seagoon]

I haven't said anything because I don't have much of use to say. But the one thing that was most useful to me when my Mother was suffering with the same thing was being told "You have to live in her world because she doesn't recognize yours".
Lara hasn't got to that stage yet but it really is valuable to keep that thought in the back of your mind.
I wish the best possible outcome for you all.