Mid Tier tool brand

[Tj1004]

Good morning folks

Just out of curiosity and looking for opinions on this subject. In you opinion what is a solid middle ground for tool brands? Let’s say the tool truck brands are high end and quite pricey, and the big box stuff is mainly import and viewed as lower end. What’s in the middle? As a DIY fixer, I don’t have access to tool trucks like a shop would, and maybe I want a step up from Craftsman, ICON, Huskey etc. Where would you land and where would you go to buy it? Just seems like a big jump (at least in perceived quality) in the available options.

I have mainly Craftsman, some ICON, Knipex and Channelock pliers, Gearwrench etc. Only a few hand me down snap on sockets.

 

[cody1325]

Industrial stuff--Williams (plus CAT and Case/New Holland--all Snap-On made) and Proto (under the same umbrella as Mac) is what I tend to buy. Preferably used.

The majority of what I have is Proto--some of it my Granddad's from the '70s and '80s, some new from the mine supply down the road. The Proto Anti-Slip Design wrenches are the same as Mac Tools Knucklesaver--and they're great wrenches.

Brick and mortar stores tend to not have much Williams around here.


Both Caterpillar and New Holland (though largely the former--but it's a mix of Williams and Snap-On designs) have their tools produced by Snap-On. Much of the stuff is rebranded Snap-On, and it's considerably cheaper.

 

[bassJAM]

Most of the tools made in Taiwan are pretty good. I think Carlyle from NAPA are supposed to be good. Tekton and Gearwrench are pretty good. Heard good things about Blue Point. I have a set of Williams screwdrivers that are really nice.

 

[username2]

I do have to wonder if there's enough difference to matter in all of this. 99% of hobbyists could stand to just buy some big ol' pile of Milwaukee or Gearwrench or HF tools.

No way to prove it, but my general gut feeling on good value proposition is Japanese pliers (Tsunoda maybe?), Wera or Vessel screwdrivers, Snap-on ratchet(s), decent set of impact sockets (Proto? Williams?), no chrome sockets, Milwaukee M12 impact/ratchet. No strong opinion on combination wrenches, mine were all bought when I jumped on a bargain (Stahlwille/Snap-on). This is for crawling around cars that is. Some combination of Amazon, eBay, Home Depot for buying, I wouldn't sweat warranties.

Screwdrivers and bits are the one thing I would really hate to cheap out on.

 

[JeepYJ]

You are probably going to order online anything that’s not in the stores so that opens up all the tool truck brands too. Anyone can order S-O, Mac, Matco or whatever from their websites.
I wouldn’t classify Proto, Wright, Knipex, Klein, etc as mid tier brands at all. They just serve a different customer than the truck brands. The Japanese and German tool brands are options too that are comparable to truck brands.
Mid tier to me are brands like Tekton or Icon or Channellock.
You can buy EU and JP tools from the Amazon websites in those countries, usually they will ship to the US and the exchange rate is favorable right now.

 

[username2]

I wouldn’t classify Proto, Wright, Knipex, Klein, etc as mid tier brands at all.

I would agree with that, but it seems to me that 'tier' usually ends up just meaning pricing. It seems to break into gawdawful stuff, Taiwan, US 'industrial' brands/Japan/Germany, Snap-on.

 

[Hakeem]

Icon, tekton, capri, gearwrench are what I consider mid-tier. Mostly pro-quality, mostly made in Taiwan, mostly covered under warranty

 

[mreisner]

Wright are top tier quality and mid tier prices.

 

[bwringer]

TIATA. (Tekton Is Always The Answer)

This sort of question comes up a lot around here, and you could do far worse for the money than Tekton.


Or, as noted above, figure out the sweet spot for each specific type of tool or tool set (for example, Wera hex-plus wrenches, Tsunoda pliers, etc.) and track those down. There's also a school of thought that it's worthwhile to spend up for the best of the best in certain areas, like Knipex pliers.

 

[Wakefield]

Knipex mini bolt cutter vs. the Tsunoda mini bolt cutter? Comparable ?
Knipex the pliers cutter tools to which all others must compare ?
Klein electricians' tools ?

 

[milkovich]

I want a step up from Craftsman, ICON, Huskey etc. Where would you land and where would you go to buy it?

Depends on the tools but as mentioned, Wright, Williams, Bahco, CDI, Grip-on, Proto, Facom, USAG would be professional quality but without the markup necessary for the truck business model. Zoro is stupid enough to send 20% off coupons and they're likely losing money. I'd try to take advantage of that before Grainger (their parent company) decides to stop the bleeding. A tier below that would be the Taiwan sourced tools, some of which you already have, are everywhere. I'd say Carlyle (Napa's brand) does a consistent job of sourcing and warrantying hand tools from the same manufacturers that other brands like Icon use and they're on sale pretty regularly. You can buy online or at Napa stores, check out their monthly flyer once in a while.

 

[snickers muncher]

Tekton, Capri, Carlyle, with a little GearWrench thrown in. Some GW is solid and some is junk---usually Taiwan is good and China made is ****.

That being said I've got a cheap Chinese Huskey socket set from 2009 that has seen a lot of use and has done quite well.

 

[Tj1004]

Lots of good stuff here guys, thanks. I certainly don’t “need” anything but I do like nice things haha. Looked around on eBay and just hard to tell the condition of things like ratchets and torque wrenches. For instance, a split beam Snap On torque wrench, 40-250lb, for $80 or so. Maybe it’s junk, maybe it’s a good deal. Hard to say. I could get it calibrated for about $20 local; so $80 plus $15 in shipping plus $20 to calibrate, I’m at $115 when I could go buy the similar Icon new for $140.

The last thing I need is a new hobby, but I bought an old Jeep TJ and plan on wrenching on it and have been toying with the idea of upgrading some of my commonly used hand tools.

 

[Kurt4440]

I have mainly Craftsman, some ICON, Knipex and Channelock pliers, Gearwrench etc. Only a few hand me down snap on sockets.

It sounds like you already have mid tier tools, but, have some extra cash to spend on tools.
How are you set up with power tools?
Impact guns, die grinders, cordless ratchets, angle grinders, air hammers, needle scalers, welders, compressor, spray guns.......

 

[d.mcfarland]

Look through the tool truck rebrand thread too. Other than hardline items, you'll find a lot of good stuff is a rebrand.

 

[tamaraw]

Industrial stuff--Williams (plus CAT and Case/New Holland--all Snap-On made) and Proto (under the same umbrella as Mac) is what I tend to buy. Preferably used.

All good recommendations, high end quality at reasonable prices.

The Proto Anti-Slip Design wrenches are the same as Mac Tools Knucklesaver--and they're great wrenches.

Fun fact, the MAC open end jaws are actually flipped the other direction compared to Proto. But yes, otherwise the same wrench.

 

[Ohio Andy]

I bought a Craftsman ratchet on a whim. The new overdrive stuff. I really liked it so I bought a small set. I like that. Bought some of their wrenches to get those tough bolts but are rounded and then I bought a larger set of Craftsman. Like that.

So if you can get a good price on them, consider it.

I really like Tekton. I have a lot of their stuff and most that I got I really like. I like their screwdrivers and their ratchets. The pry bars... Lots of stuff from them.

Then again I like PB swiss screwdrivers too those are not middle of the road. I have mini screwdriver brands. I have a lot of specialty screwdrivers like specific ones for woodworking screws or gunsmithing screws.

For Jiss have vessel screwdrivers. I have a bunch of old USA made Craftsman screwdrivers. Screwdrivers and bits well, get the ones you need.

 

[Tj1004]

It sounds like you already have mid tier tools, but, have some extra cash to spend on tools.
How are you set up with power tools?
Impact guns, die grinders, cordless ratchets, angle grinders, air hammers, needle scalers, welders, compressor, spray guns.......

I’ve got an 18v 1/2” Milwaukee, Makita 18v impact driver, 12v 3/8 Milwaukee ratchet, 18v grinder, flux core welder, Rolair compressor (more for woodwork). I’d like to get stubby 3/8 impact from Milwaukee.

 

[lardy1]

It's hard to address that with a single answer. Several companies make top tier stuff but not across the board. Their ratchets may be great but their screwdrivers ****, etc, etc, etc. Personally, I think Proto best fits because of the breadth of their lineup and the quality. They aren't cheap but they aren't the most expensive. Wright makes fantastic tools but very limited when compared to the bigger companies. Gearwrench has a nice, broad lineup and priced quite well typically but not many would consider them above mid tier.

The decline of SK has been good for me in a way because I'm no longer a brand ***** and now research better before I buy. Brand name isn't that important to me anymore.

 

[Jicle]

Avoid all home depot and lowes tools they are basically all the same Chinese tools as harbor freight just with different labels. Proto, Wright, and older Williams are all Made in USA industrial quality great tools. NWS and Gedore are a bit cheaper German made alternative to Knipex.

 

[Tj1004]

Thanks guys, I’ve got some browsing to do now

 

[username2]

I’d like to get stubby 3/8 impact from Milwaukee.

I got one of those, or close as it's the 1/2" model (Fuel), and it's amazingly good. I'm really pretty surprised. I think the only air tool I'll use going forward is a stapler or small nail gun (the Milwaukee stapler ***** IMO).

 

[F-22]

NWS and Gedore are a bit cheaper German made alternative to Knipex.

Feel like they are typically not any cheaper here (in Europe) at all. Unless knipex adds some big markup to the USA and the others don't. Gedore is often even more pricey and lower quality in my opinion.

In terms of tools I would say to check out anything made in Japan (usually best in terms of price-toquality ratio). Koken, KTC, Vessel, Sunflag, Anex, Tsunoda etc... if made in Japan, it willl not disappoint.


Second I'd check out Facom and USAG lineups. I got my "MAC RBRT" wrenches set branded as USAG for 80€, and two Facom 440XL wrenches for about 80€ each too (without tax).

It's not lower quality. They are the exact same wrenches. I'd argue the Facom even has a nicer finish, but that's a matter of taste. Yet it costs 3 times less than MAC.


After those two brands I'd check out brands like Proto and Williams and Wright in the US. Very nice but already quite pricey. Up here I'd also put PB Swiss and Knipex and some other niche brands that speciallize in specific tools. I'd generally avoid big german brands like Stahlwille, Hazet and Gedore as well as Italian Beta. They consistently disappoint me. They're not as pricey as Snap On but the quality is often really not what I would expect for the money or their old reputation. Facom seems on a different level to me.

 

[gsanvi]

I'd generally avoid big german brands like Stahlwille, Hazet and Gedore as well as Italian Beta. They consistently disappoint me. They're not as pricey as Snap On but the quality is often really not what I would expect for the money or their old reputation. Facom seems on a different level to me.

Could you please elaborate why Stahlwille dissapoints you? I love their tools. Especially ratchets and sockets. I have and use Facom as well, but I'd say the quality is generally worse than Stahlwille. Given that I do not have that many Stahlwille tools as they are really expensive. Also I'm a DIY guy, so I don't use those tools to the limit everyday.

I think it's not fair to say that PB Swiss or Knipex are mid tier brands. Neither the quality is mid tier, nor the price.

 

[BTL-A4]

The last thing I need is a new hobby, but I bought an old Jeep TJ and plan on wrenching on it and have been toying with the idea of upgrading some of my commonly used hand tools.

I’ve got an 18v 1/2” Milwaukee, Makita 18v impact driver, 12v 3/8 Milwaukee ratchet, 18v grinder, flux core welder, Rolair compressor (more for woodwork). I’d like to get stubby 3/8 impact from Milwaukee.

Start working on the vehicle and see what you use, what you like/don't like and buy accordingly.

You have multiple battery platforms; maybe pick one?

I bought Olsa ratcheting wrenches and swivel ratchets and Vessel screwdrivers. Really nice stuff.

 

[Tj1004]

I definitely use the gearwrench ratchet wrench’s and 3/8 drive the most. I’m happy with the Gearwrench but I’m thinking about getting a nicer ratchet and metric and sae sockets.

I’m in construction and the majority of my power tools are Makita so I tend to stay with them. But I like the Milwaukee stuff as well and think they have a better platform for mechanic tools. I also have some dewalt stuff. So Makita for woodworking/general purpose and Milwaukee for their 12v line as well as the auto stuff. I’ll check out Vessel since my screwdriver drawer has about 30 different brands of all shapes and sizes

 

[AJHD]

Could you please elaborate why Stahlwille dissapoints you? I love their tools. Especially ratchets and sockets. I have and use Facom as well, but I'd say the quality is generally worse than Stahlwille. Given that I do not have that many Stahlwille tools as they are really expensive. Also I'm a DIY guy, so I don't use those tools to the limit everyday.

I think it's not fair to say that PB Swiss or Knipex are mid tier brands. Neither the quality is mid tier, nor the price.

Stahlwille price structure is very inconsistent... At least on Amazon (USA). Some of their tools are reasonable and some of it is just stupid expensive (especially their socket sets).

 

[richfinn]

Ko-ken for sockets/ratchets/extensions/accessories

I would say they are top tier at middle tier pricing (which is what your really looking for)

Stick to buying stuff from brands that specialize in a particular type of tool like Knipex (pliers) Vessel (Screwdrivers) rather than one brand for everything

 

[richfinn]

Stahlwille price structure is very inconsistent... At least on Amazon (USA). Some of their tools are reasonable and some of it is just stupid expensive (especially their socket sets).

The Spanners (Wrenches) are where Stahlwille really shine IMHO

 

[bonneyman]

I took a look at Carlyle tools a few years ago. Ended up not going for them, but they looked and felt nice. And the Tekton and Gearwrench stuff that I are quite nice.

 

[username2]

Stahlwille price structure is very inconsistent... At least on Amazon (USA). Some of their tools are reasonable and some of it is just stupid expensive (especially their socket sets).

A mystery of life. I ordered a 14/17 set from Amazon for $137, they're now $279.

I always marvel at how an Olsa socket rail costs $14, and an Olsa 14 piece set of long 1/4" sockets costs $22. Maybe it's just me, but I'd expect more of a difference.

Maybe all of these manufacturing companies treat Amazon as a way to push out overstock.

 

[Submariner733]

Industrial Maintenance

Wrenches - Proto
Sockets - Proto
Ratchets - Proto, Wright
Pliers - Channellock, Proto, Wilde
Screwdrivers - Proto, Wiha
Hex keys - Bondhus, Eklind
Adjustable wrenches - Proto, Bahco

 

[F-22]

Could you please elaborate why Stahlwille dissapoints you? I love their tools. Especially ratchets and sockets. I have and use Facom as well, but I'd say the quality is generally worse than Stahlwille. Given that I do not have that many Stahlwille tools as they are really expensive. Also I'm a DIY guy, so I don't use those tools to the limit everyday.

I think it's not fair to say that PB Swiss or Knipex are mid tier brands. Neither the quality is mid tier, nor the price.

For what they charge, they're just not that special. Facom quality does not seem worse to me at all. Stahlwille makes nice wrenches but compared to Facom all those German brands seem stuck in the 70's to me. Facom wrenches would be really hard to fault. And they are relatively affordable, as I wrote. Stahlwille, Gedore or Hazet would cost much more than what I paid for Facom and wouldn't certainly be as nice as the 440XL series.


PB Swiss and Knipex offer great quality. They are not as pricey as Snap On, at least not here. I can get most Knipex pliers for 20-30€ and the standard PB Swiss allen keys for 30-40€. Competitive to Wera and others...

Putting it in quality tiers makes no sense since a lot of these brands are about as good as it gets. They are just more affordable.

 

[four.cycle]

I didn't read anybody else's post - just the OP.
If I did not own a single tool, and had to start all over again, I would get my

sockets and ratchets from Tekton
screwdrivers from Vessel
combination wrenches from Wright or Proto (and bite the bullet on price)
large pliers (6 inch and larger) from Wilde
small pliers (6 inches and smaller) from Proamerica, Vampire, Tsunoda, and Merry

 

[gsanvi]

Stahlwille price structure is very inconsistent... At least on Amazon (USA). Some of their tools are reasonable and some of it is just stupid expensive (especially their socket sets).

To check what the price should be visit Idealo.de. It's a German price comparison website, it's going to give you an idea if the price on Amazon is fair or not.

For what they charge, they're just not that special. Facom quality does not seem worse to me at all. Stahlwille makes nice wrenches but compared to Facom all those German brands seem stuck in the 70's to me. Facom wrenches would be really hard to fault. And they are relatively affordable, as I wrote. Stahlwille, Gedore or Hazet would cost much more than what I paid for Facom and wouldn't certainly be as nice as the 440XL series.


PB Swiss and Knipex offer great quality. They are not as pricey as Snap On, at least not here. I can get most Knipex pliers for 20-30€ and the standard PB Swiss allen keys for 30-40€. Competitive to Wera and others...

Putting it in quality tiers makes no sense since a lot of these brands are about as good as it gets. They are just more affordable.

I just love the smooth QR ratchets and matte chrome I guess. I almost never pay full retail for Stahlwille, trying to look for a good deal - that way it doesn't hurt that much. I also own the Facom's 440 wrenches and I like them a lot. I guess it's a matter of taste.

 

[F-22]

To check what the price should be visit Idealo.de. It's a German price comparison website, it's going to give you an idea if the price on Amazon is fair or not.



I just love the smooth QR ratchets and matte chrome I guess. I almost never pay full retail for Stahlwille, trying to look for a good deal - that way it doesn't hurt that much. I also own the Facom's 440 wrenches and I like them a lot. I guess it's a matter of taste.

I don't think Stahlwille is "bad". They just don't seem like that great of a deal in the comparsion to me.

For example, details are most apparent in the small products, so the 1/4" round head ratchets:




Or the quick release standard 1/2" ratchets:



To get the quality finish Facom goes for, I think it is a lot more expensive to make their ratchets. You can see the finish is consistent everywhere on the tool, while .e.g the 1/4" Stahlwille is only grinded on the side with very visible grinding marks even on their presentation photo. Yet the Facom design is way more contoured and on the bigger one "flows" into the handle.

On amazon.de, the facom 1/4" round head is 39€. Can't find the 1/4" stahlwille, the pear head with 22 teeth is 47€ and the round head 3/8" is 49,9€.

The 1/2" Facom with quick release is 48€ (Italian made round head is only 30€ in 1/2" size, very good deal there!). Stahlwille is 61€ with quick release (round head 43€). The 36 tooth stahlwille 512 1/2" is 60€.

Just seems like paying more for a more basic and fatter tool to me.

 

[GarageHobbyist]

I've been really happy with my Tekton Stuff. I did have one screwdriver break, sent the required photo at 11PM and they had a tracking number emailed to me by 8 AM the next morning for the replacement.

Runnings stores carry Tekton if you have one near you, and they run some good sales and coupons on occasion.

I also have been happy with my Sunex Wrenches I got to hold me over until I fill out an old S-K set.

 

[username2]

re: Stahlwille ratchets.

I've had a few European ratchets and wasn't blown away by them, sold along with the set-in-a-box. Maybe there's some super-special one still out there. I do have an all-metal Wera...I like the shape and secret socket removing button on the back...but I'm afraid to beat on it.

My general take on the things is that, since it's the one tool I'm ever likely to break (and have), they should either be cheap or be relatively easy to get fixed for free (or have an inexpensive rebuild kit). That kind of leaves out Hecho en Deutschland or fancy schmancy Nepros and the like so far as I can tell.

 

[lotus_esprit]

The only European ratchets that have impressed me out of various Stahlwille, beta, facom, gedore, Carolus, Expert etc are the top end Bacho ones, which use the Snap On Dual 80 internals.

 

[BIGTOY44]

Avoid all home depot and lowes tools they are basically all the same Chinese tools as harbor freight just with different labels. Proto, Wright, and older Williams are all Made in USA industrial quality great tools. NWS and Gedore are a bit cheaper German made alternative to Knipex.

No