MIG Bottle On It's Side?

[SilverSS1969]

Hey guys. I have been wanting to build a welding table for some time. Well I had a piece of 3'6" x 4'6" that is a 1/4" thick come my way that I couldn't pass up. So now it's time to start planning and building it.

I had plans of having a shelf to house my mig and arc welder under. I was also going to mount my MIG bottle(Argon/CO2 mix) under it. This is where my problem (first of many I'm sure) comes in. I plan on making the table top around 36 inches tall. My bottle is around 36 inches tall. Would it affect the sheilding ability if I made a mount to house the bottle sideways? Would it still function properly? Or should I just make a storage rack under the table and pull it out and stand it up as I use it?

The table will be mobile with some type of stops on it. I've been taking ideas from different table Ive seen built on this site.

 

[danski0224]

At the very least, the flowmeter won't work on it's side.

 

[welder4956]

Functionally, this is not a problem and will not affect shielding. Of course the bottle will need to be positioned so that the flowmeter is vertical if it is a ball type flowmeter. The shutoff valve will also need to be placed where it cannot be damaged by something dropping on it or does not stick out the side.

 

[ishiboo]

I am pretty sure that's wrong.

If using CO2, which is a liquid in a tank, it must be vertical or you would get liquid in the regulator.

Gas mixes like Argon would be able to be on their side as all of it is in the same state.

Could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure...

 

[dr_clyde]

I am pretty sure that's wrong.

If using CO2, which is a liquid in a tank, it must be vertical or you would get liquid in the regulator.

Gas mixes like Argon would be able to be on their side as all of it is in the same state.

Could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure...

This is not correct.

Co2 is not stored as a liquid in welding cylinders. Only in bulk tanks outside breweries and soda plants and so on.

You won't hurt a thing by putting argon or other shielding mixes on their side. As others have said, just position the flowmeter so the ball can travel vertically.

Acetylene, on the other hand, is dissolved into liquid acetone and must be kept upright or the acetone will damage the regulator.

 

[fnieto]

This is not correct.

Co2 is not stored as a liquid in welding cylinders. Only in bulk tanks outside breweries and soda plants and so on.

You won't hurt a thing by putting argon or other shielding mixes on their side. As others have said, just position the flowmeter so the ball can travel vertically.

Acetylene, on the other hand, is dissolved into liquid acetone and must be kept upright or the acetone will damage the regulator.

100% true. They make a flow regulator with a dial instead if a ball type.
I would really try to keep the cylinder upright for ease of replacement.

 

[Brians VWss]

This is from the Powertank website
Q: ?Can it be mounted sideways??
A2: Yes. It can be mounted sideways or even up side down but the tank must be upright or at least at a 30-degree angle while being used. The reason it must be upright during use is because you want the liquid at the bottom of the tank and the vapor at the top coming through the valve and regulator. We highly recommend that your Power TankTM be mounted in a vertical to 45° minimum angle position so it does not need to be removed from its mounting bracket for each use and so it is never mistakenly used in a horizontal position. In an RV, storage sideways in the cargo hold is fine.

 

[Fyrme]

Well Brian above said what I was going to suggest. I mount it on an angle much like they do cutting torch bottles mounted on welding trucks. Just let it sit back under the table far enough that the valve and regulator will be protected from damage. Just be sure and use a dial type regulator. I've been using a Victor dial gauge style for many years now.

 

[SilverSS1969]

I have been using the dial gauge that came with my Lincoln welder years ago. Mounting on a 45 might be an opion. I'll have to arrange everything I plan on having under the top and see what works best.

Was hoping to get some done on it today but with the wife and daughter sick with the flu I've been taking care of them.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[goodysgotacuda]

This is from the Powertank website
Q: ?Can it be mounted sideways??
A2: Yes. It can be mounted sideways or even up side down but the tank must be upright or at least at a 30-degree angle while being used. The reason it must be upright during use is because you want the liquid at the bottom of the tank and the vapor at the top coming through the valve and regulator. We highly recommend that your Power TankTM be mounted in a vertical to 45° minimum angle position so it does not need to be removed from its mounting bracket for each use and so it is never mistakenly used in a horizontal position. In an RV, storage sideways in the cargo hold is fine.

That would be from Powertank, which falls under the same category as a beverage co2 tank that was mentioned in this thread. Co2 in -welding- tanks [as in a co2/Ar mix] are stored in a gaseous state and can be mounted/used sideways. Liquid co2 [Powertank] cannot be used on it's side, that is correct, but not relevant to the OP's request.

 

[hackwelder]

That would be from Powertank, which falls under the same category as a beverage co2 tank that was mentioned in this thread. Co2 in -welding- tanks [as in a co2/Ar mix] are stored in a gaseous state and can be mounted/used sideways. Liquid co2 [Powertank] cannot be used on it's side, that is correct, but not relevant to the OP's request.

Post #5 claims that straight CO2 is NOT liquid in the bottle and the bottles can be used horizontally...not the case, I looked into this when building a MIG cart recently. Many use straight CO2 for MIG welding (rather than a blend), myself included, and the bottle does need to be more or less upright, and definitely not horizontal in use. If you look at the bottle capacity and sizes it is clear that the CO2 has to be liquid in order to store 15 lbs. of it in a small bottle.
(straight CO2 is not what the OP is using as was said but the bad information above could cause problems for another welder who does)

 

[BD1]

I would reconsider using the table for the machines and tank. A independent cart would give you more flexibility with the machine. Mig gun lead is usually only 10' and the less bending the better. With the machine on a cart you can move to a ideal location . Both machines can go on one cart too.

 

[BD1]

Post #5 claims that straight CO2 is NOT liquid in the bottle and the bottles can be used horizontally...not the case, I looked into this when building a MIG cart recently. Many use straight CO2 for MIG welding (rather than a blend), myself included, and the bottle does need to be more or less upright, and definitely not horizontal in use. If you look at the bottle capacity and sizes it is clear that the CO2 has to be liquid in order to store 15 lbs. of it in a small bottle.

IF you are using 100 % CO2 a regulator for STRAIGHT CO2 is recommended. Most mig machines are provide with a regulator for Argon and argon/CO2 as in a 75/25 C- 25 tank.

 

[dr_clyde]

Post #5 claims that straight CO2 is NOT liquid in the bottle and the bottles can be used horizontally...not the case, I looked into this when building a MIG cart recently. Many use straight CO2 for MIG welding (rather than a blend), myself included, and the bottle does need to be more or less upright, and definitely not horizontal in use. If you look at the bottle capacity and sizes it is clear that the CO2 has to be liquid in order to store 15 lbs. of it in a small bottle.
(straight CO2 is not what the OP is using as was said but the bad information above could cause problems for another welder who does)

When you purchase welding grade gases, they are sold in different vessels than food grade vessels. Typically larger steel cylinders, wheras food is in aluminum. Welding gases are kept as a gas, not a liquid. You might run into liquid as a food grade gas, or as a cryogenic bulk tank.

 

[laser3kw]

As a former " pumper" , I have filled THOUSANDS of gas cylinders. I can tell you that ALL CO2 cylinders, cryogenic or gas withdrawal, food industry or industrial, are filled with liquid CO2. That is why they are sold in "pounds" , 20lb, 50 lb, 75lb. To test this, take the cylinder and turn it upside down and open the valve. You will get "snow" or dry ice flakes when the liquid is discharged and goes to solid phase. And, when you fill a CO2 cylinder, you will see the "frost line" on the cylinder where the liquid level is, just like a propane cylinder..
On the other hand, mix gas cylinders containing CO2 have only gaseous CO2 and its other mix gas(es)

 

[dr_clyde]

I guess my experience with welding co2 has only been with mixes. I knew the food ones were liquid, but I have never needed to weld with pure co2. My mistake.

 

[welder4956]

100% CO2 welding gas will always be in a gaseous state at temperatures above 87.8 degrees F, regardless of cylinder pressure. Below that temperature, it can be in a liquid form at pressures above the critical pressure. The critical pressure follows a curve, and for example at 0 degrees F it will be liquid at pressures greater than 300 psia. So, when dealing with a welding cylinder for 100% CO2 it would not be good practice to have the cylinder horizontal since you could potentially have liquid CO2 passing through the regulator and freeze up the regulator. The same thing happens at flow rates above 35 cfh and we used to use heated regulators for welding with compressed CO2 gas.

The OP was asking about argon/CO2 mix, which is not a problem to have the cylinder laid horizontal. It is good that someone recognized the answer could be different for 100% CO2 vs. mixed gas.

http://catalogs.praxairdirect.com/i/27114/7

 

[angrystroker]

At the very least, the flowmeter won't work on it's side.

I do not think laying the bottle on its side is a good idea, leaves the shut off valve exposed to damage.

But the flowmeter not working how do you get there ? Need to look at your flowmeter again..

 

[fuzzytek]

Miller passport portable MIG has bottle horizantally mounted inside the case.

 

[SilverSS1969]

After thinking more about it, I might take BD1's advise and make a mig cart on its own. I have an old file cabinet I am thinking of using for that cart.

I will plan on keeping the arc welder under the welding table though. In all honesty, I haven't used that welder since the first time I used/bought it. Really it was an impulse CL buy. Couldn't pass it up for $125.