Mig Melting but not Welding

[TauntDevil]

Hello all... again.

So this issue is new to me. I have migged quite a lot and though I have ran into this issue, it wouldnt last long and could weld through it but now I am having the issue often.

When welding upside down, the weld will melt, but not penetrate. Instead, the wire will just melt and keep falling as little metal balls of molt... (new band slogan? ) Some will stay on the metal but I know it is not penetrating enough and so I grind it back down to try again, still the same issue. Only happens when welding upside down which I never had an issue with before until now . I tried adjusting my wire speed but if it is faster, it happens more, and slower, it kicks the gun back as if it is not fast enough.

Mig welder is a Lincoln 180HD and it is using 0.23 Wire. 25/75 Gas.

I appreciate all the help in advance and thank you for taking the time to read this!

 

[Rookie2]

First off ,I can't weld overhead ! That said, some welder will chime in and help ! Make sure your ground is clean, try electrode (-) ,try reduced gas flow, use .030 ga wire. ,turn item to be welded over. Thats all I got ! good luck.

 

[zkling]

First of, what wire are you running ER70s-2, 6, ? Depending on the silicone content the puddle will be more fluid.

Second, your wire speed adjusts the amperage and thus heat. When you have it too high you will get falling blobs of metal. You need to set a wire feed that is just below that and then fine tune your voltage to prevent the wire from kicking back (increase voltage).

 

[bullnerd]

Go to welding tips and tricks.com, look up overhead mig videos.

 

[danski0224]

I recall being informed that Tri Mix gas is needed to MIG weld in almost any position but flat and down.

 

[Blazinzuk]

Overhead welding can be tricky. You don't need special gas or special wire. I actually don't change my settings given the same metal thickness. I change my technique and my speed.

If you have molten metal falling off, speed up, just cause I don't change my settings doesn't mean you don't need to. Also gun angle is important. I do alot of out of position arms outstretched looking at the weld out of the corner of my eye type welds. You need to become more familiar with the puddle behavior.

 

[jimgood]

What thickness metal are you working with?

 

[TauntDevil]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. The odd part is I have welded underhead many times and never had an issue. Back to the settings I use always, now I have an issue.

The material is 1.5"x0.095 DOM tubing. cannot be flipped as it is on a car. All tubed get scuffed/polished on the ends and then wiped clean with a clean rag and acetone before being welded. Probably overkill for mig but I am use to it from needing to do it with my tig.

I will definitely try to speed my movement up to see if that well it will help.

Again, thank you everyone!

 

[Blazinzuk]

Time to get some HREW ( cheaper ) and make a reasonable facsimile of your finished product. Pay attention to the puddle it will give indicators before it drops out

 

[DekeT]

Have you tested your rig in a more familiar position to see if it is running the way you expect?

 

[Richard Cranium]

I read this to find out what was going wrong, In case I had the same problem. Haven't yet , but you never no. Thanks

 

[TauntDevil]

Time to get some HREW ( cheaper ) and make a reasonable facsimile of your finished product. Pay attention to the puddle it will give indicators before it drops out

DOM or Chromolly are the two choices I have as far as rules and so its what I use the most of. I pay attention to the puddle when it allows me too but happens fast and unexpected. Hard to watch for the normal signs.

Have you tested your rig in a more familiar position to see if it is running the way you expect?

Yes, I do practice welds before I will weld anything on a car. I do this everyday to see if I am ready to weld on the car for the day as some days, I cannot do a good weld even though none of the settings changed. Although, I will have to figure out an easy way to do above head practices as well to add in my routine.

I read this to find out what was going wrong, In case I had the same problem. Haven't yet , but you never no. Thanks

So, to end this thread, what I ended up finding out thanks to Blazinzuk and Vern Lewis welding shop to help me figure out the issue. Was two things, not fast enough wire speed as well as my own speed. Just like tig, need to move faster but the issue was that I would move too fast for my wire so it would look horrible. After talking with a buddy of mine who works there, he came over and looked at where I had the issue, watched me weld a few more times (have to cut the front off the car to redo it all anyway because of this so might as well keep going) and he was able to help me resolve my issue.

Hope this helps anyone who ends up having the issue as well but I also want to let you all know that I do appreciate the recommendations as well as suggestions to try and resolve the issue.

 

[Blazinzuk]

Good job man.

I'm completely self taught and I really enjoy welding in challenging spots.

In really complicated cages I tend to test bend with HREW. Then bend the DOM or chromoly

 

[jimgood]

So, to end this thread, what I ended up finding out thanks to Blazinzuk and Vern Lewis welding shop to help me figure out the issue. Was two things, not fast enough wire speed as well as my own speed. Just like tig, need to move faster but the issue was that I would move too fast for my wire so it would look horrible. After talking with a buddy of mine who works there, he came over and looked at where I had the issue, watched me weld a few more times (have to cut the front off the car to redo it all anyway because of this so might as well keep going) and he was able to help me resolve my issue.

Hope this helps anyone who ends up having the issue as well but I also want to let you all know that I do appreciate the recommendations as well as suggestions to try and resolve the issue.

I assume that faster speed and faster wire feed both help cool the weld pool before it gets a chance to drip out. Does that sound right?

 

[DekeT]

as some days, I cannot do a good weld even though none of the settings changed.

Some days I can run a bead to perfection, the next day they look like crossword puzzles. It's a good thing I don't have to rely on it for a living.

 

[TauntDevil]

Good job man.

I'm completely self taught and I really enjoy welding in challenging spots.

In really complicated cages I tend to test bend with HREW. Then bend the DOM or chromoly

Same and that is a good idea. Never thought of using HREW for that purpose. I may have to pick some up now and use it for the same reason as well as using it for the morning practice welds before welding on the cars. Thanks for the idea/sharing!

I assume that faster speed and faster wire feed both help cool the weld pool before it gets a chance to drip out. Does that sound right?

The heat may be the same but the size of the puddle wont get big/heavy enough to droop down before cooling. If I understand correctly.

Some days I can run a bead to perfection, the next day they look like crossword puzzles. It's a good thing I don't have to rely on it for a living.

Same. Often a crossword puzzle since I do all this after my day job. I do this as side projects or side jobs to help my bank account... when things go right.

 

[MoonRise]

General ideas/thoughts:

- Watch the weld puddle, not the arc (bright light).

- If your MIG filler is just melting and you are not actually forming and establishing a weld puddle (that the molten wire electrode filler adds to), then you don't have adequate fusion/penetration. Short circuit transfer mode MIG (aka GMAW) is infamous for lack of penetration (just because the filler electrode melts just fine doesn't mean that the parent/base material melted adequately).

- Overhead welding (position 4F/4G) usually calls for slightly 'lower' welding parameters than a weld done in the flat (1F/1G) position, unless running at the lower end of the wire's suggested parameter range to begin with. Slightly lower parameters means about 10-30% lower than maxed-out flat position welding parameters, for instance.

- Trying to form too big of a bead/puddle too quickly and gravity will win.

From a reference on GMAW from Lincoln:

OVERHEAD WELDING
The difficulties with welding overhead are putting the molten metal where it is wanted and making it stay there. If too much molten metal is deposited, gravity will pull it downwards and cause it to “drip”.
When welding overhead, run stringer beads. Don’t whip, break the arc, move out of the puddle, or move too fast in any direction. Use a wire feed speed (WFS) near mid range and keep the electrode nearly perpendicular to the joint.

 

[no704]

Try using magnets on your workpiece.

 

[jrod60]

I recall being informed that Tri Mix gas is needed to MIG weld in almost any position but flat and down.

You were misinformed. The filler metal and technique affects out of position welding. You may have heard that 90-98% Argon / 10-2% O2 or CO2 doesn't weld out of position, but that would be because of the spray arc transfer, not the gas itself.

 

[ASHMAN_AZ]

Since you didnt have trouble before you might have an issue with your liner catching the wire or might not have your roller tension tight enough for your 023 wire.

Make sure your hose is all straight with no tight turns.

 

[Nor'Easter]

Wire speed too slow, although I haven't had to adjust settings when transitioning from position to position.

 

[jeepyy]

Check the polarity of your wires.... just try to switch them....It can fix the problem!