I've been wanting to teach myself to mig weld so I bought a Miller 210 and have been practicing. The chart inside the 210 is helpful with the voltage and feed settings but I'm not yet clear on gas pressure. Is there a basic rule of thumb, such as material thickness vs. psi? Or is it one setting for most materials? I'm using 25 CO/75 Argon.
Mig question
- Thread starter Skysurfer
- Start date
dagoat_1
Well-known member
Im no expert but when indoors I have found that flow at 15 is a bout right for everything i have encountered and around 25 when outdoors. As for flow for different material thickness, I'm hopeing someone will chime in as i would like to know as well.
chris fresh
Well-known member
the gas is to protect the burn/puddle.that's the reason for less inside and more outside,if there was a slight breeze outside,you would need a little more pressure to keep the pocket of gas contained.
correct me if i'm wrong here, anyone?
You're not setting gas pressure, really -- you're setting the rate it flows at. As a rule, 12-20 cfm is good -- try to err on the lower side of that if you can, since there's no benefit to wasting the shielding gas. All it's doing is displacing the oxygen in the air around the puddle.
If it's too high, it can buffet the puddle. Too low and you'll have oxygen affecting the way the metal melts.
If it's too high, it can buffet the puddle. Too low and you'll have oxygen affecting the way the metal melts.
Thanks guys. My first attempts were under 10 cfm and the results weren't that great so I bumped it up to 15 with better results, but was still left wondering what settings the pros use. I have a stick welder for outdoors so all my mig projects are in the garage.
ZTFab
Well-known member
15-20 cfh is what I use.
I also use 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix.
I also use 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix.
nate379
Banned
I can do that too... tack...tack...tack...tack...tack... Looks pretty, but it's not a proper weld bead.
I run around 20-25cfm, though I have a dial guage and set it when gas is not flowing and it drops some when it flows, probably ends up being 15-20cfm, but I've honestly never looked to see.
I run around 20-25cfm, though I have a dial guage and set it when gas is not flowing and it drops some when it flows, probably ends up being 15-20cfm, but I've honestly never looked to see.
ZTFab
Well-known member
Well I'm glad that you can tack weld...
You can also obviously make assumptions about my technique which is not what I do.
All my MIG welding is continuous.
ZTFab
Well-known member
You're more than welcome to come by my garage.
I'll watch over your shoulder and give you some tips if you'd like.
nate379
Banned
Perhaps. No way for you to prove other than a video or in person. Just I have never seen anyone make welds like that while continuous welding.
I've been welding for about 20years, not to say that I'm a pro by any means though, but I have an idea on the process.
I've been welding for about 20years, not to say that I'm a pro by any means though, but I have an idea on the process.
Duker
Well-known member
Dang, that is pretty.... on one hand its encouraging knowing that bead could come from my Mig welder, on the other hand its depressing knowing it ain't happening anytime soon! Nice work there ZT. I get about two or three inches of a decent bead before I implode. Can you give us a little detail as to technique, are you pushing, pulling, "looping" any tidbit would be appreciated.
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ZTFab
Well-known member
Perhaps. No way for you to prove other than a video or in person. Just I have never seen anyone make welds like that while continuous welding.
I've been welding for about 20years, not to say that I'm a pro by any means though, but I have an idea on the process.
I have no time or desire to debate my techniques over the internet with people that claim to know it all.
Your snide remarks about how much you "know" about welding hold zero merit with how I know what I do.
I would rather spend my time and energy passing on my knowledge to those that are open to learning.
Skysurfer, get a hold of me if you'd like to come by sometime and I'll show you first-hand how I weld.
nate379
Banned
Your comments go for my thoughts on you as well. I could cut up some metal and go tack tack tack and make it look just like your photos. Don't know who you are or your merits. I was just going off the photos you posted.
There was no "snide" comments. I just wanted to be clear that I just didn't read how to weld off the internets or just bought a flux core machine from Harbor Freight last night and now I'm a pro weldor. I was self taught at around age 8, but also later went to school for it. I just don't do it for a living, rather just a hobby.
It's ok though... have a beer and get back to work
There was no "snide" comments. I just wanted to be clear that I just didn't read how to weld off the internets or just bought a flux core machine from Harbor Freight last night and now I'm a pro weldor. I was self taught at around age 8, but also later went to school for it. I just don't do it for a living, rather just a hobby.
It's ok though... have a beer and get back to work
ZTFab
Well-known member
Thanks Duker.
I pull and use a technique that I equate to writing a series of cursive, lower case "e"s.
I run a very slow hand speed as compared to most welders which allows me to run a slower wire speed for better control.
For me there are a few basic rules when it comes to welding:
1: Get comfortable!! If you start a weld in a comfortable spot make sure you can finish the weld in a comfortable spot. I will run a "practice" pass with the torch to make sure I will be reasonably comfortable for the entire length of the weld.
2: Prep. 90% of a good weld is in the prep. Just like a good paint job, the beauty on the outside comes from all the hard work on the inside. Bad joint fit-up, scale, contaminants, etc will almost always give you bad results.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Duker
Well-known member
Thanks ZT, I appreciate the tips. Until recently I have always stick welded (grew up on a farm/ranch) and I think I still suffer from trying to move to much metal too fast when it come to a Mig. I just tried my first Tig weld at a friends house and I seemed to produce a better bead as it was closer to brazing which I could relate to the technique and the patience needed. I am just a hobbyist but I love the process. Thanks again for the photos and process.
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ZTFab
Well-known member
No problem Duker.
Hammer1963
Well-known member
15-20 cfh is what I use.
I also use 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix.
Very nice work. After reading the trail of comments, I am left realizing that technique can vary with very similar results. It is apparent, you have spent many hours perfecting your method and the results are obvious.
On to the posted question: I have found that 15 minimum seems to work in stable environments with thinner guage metal, increasing volume with disturbed air. I seem to get my best results on 16 - 24 guage at around 22 at the gun. Meaning 22 when the trigger is in fulll weld mode.
One of the odd things I have found is that origin of steel seems to make a huge difference in how the steel welds. Any others found this issue? Origin refering to U.S. German, Japan. Korean etc.
TozziWelding
Well-known member
ZTFab
Well-known member
OH NO MIG LIKE TIG>>>>LMAO
LMAO....God, I hope not!!!
It's just MIG.
Thanks for the laugh Tozzi.
15-20 cfh is what I use.
I also use 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix.
I worked with a guy that welded almost identical to yours and I will say that I know you aren't using a series of tacks. For those of you who will say that it isn't as strong as a "normal" looking bead, I hate to break it to you but you would be incorrect. I tried to replicate it without any luck.
BigMike782
Well-known member
Gas flow also cools the gun so as thickness increases you would want to increase flow but with a MM 210 20 CFH should be more than sufficient.
dragginbalz
Well-known member
I found this article, it does a good job explaining the technique to get a dime bead from MIG
http://www.profabricationtechniques.com/mig-welding/
http://www.profabricationtechniques.com/mig-welding/
dragginbalz
Well-known member
Nate - no offense, but have to tried tack. tack. tack on thicker material and get it to look like ZT's? If so, I would love to see it.
I am willing to bet your bead would like more like this
(not mine, random pic from google)
The bead will be much higher in profile, much more spatter and most likely you will see craters.
That's some good basic advice. Thanks.
I'm no welder either but I'd like to throw #3 in there, Practice.
Back to the OP's question.. . My Hobart 175 has the listing for the gas inside the door along with everything else. I have mine gas set and have never adjusted it.
chris fresh
Well-known member
No problem Duker.
ZT your welds are insane,you said it was done in one pass.is that being done with a 110 or 220 machine? i would assume 220,how do you control the heat that much?
ZTFab
Well-known member
That's some good basic advice. Thanks.
I'm no welder either but I'd like to throw #3 in there, Practice.
I think Practice is a given if you want to become proficient at anything.
Thanks Chris.
Actually the pics of the parts that I posted were welded with a combination of my Lincoln PowerMIG 200 (220) and my Lincoln SP135 Plus (110). Some were all with my 200 and some I used both machines.
I run .030 ER70s-6 wire in the 200 and .023 in the SP135.
pssst, folks, ZTFab is actually a self-aware multi-axis CNC welding robot that has been connected to the internet.
In just a little more seriousness, ZTFab is a VERY GOOD welder. He knows what he is doing and has the skills and knowledge and practice to make some very-very-very nice looking and 'correct' welds.
As to the OP, you typically set the shielding gas flowrate for 'small' GMAW aka MIG welding at about 15-20 cfh (cubic feet per hour, not 15-20 cfm). As mentioned by several folks and probably also in the FM.
In just a little more seriousness, ZTFab is a VERY GOOD welder. He knows what he is doing and has the skills and knowledge and practice to make some very-very-very nice looking and 'correct' welds.
As to the OP, you typically set the shielding gas flowrate for 'small' GMAW aka MIG welding at about 15-20 cfh (cubic feet per hour, not 15-20 cfm). As mentioned by several folks and probably also in the FM.
ZRX61
Well-known member
I've seen "undocumented welders" run beads like ZT's, because all they do, all day, is run beads... but unlike ZT, they couldn't fabricate a paper airplane.
I can do it if I'm on the ball.. but if I haven't turned on the MM210 in 3 months it ain't gonna happen right away
I can do it if I'm on the ball.. but if I haven't turned on the MM210 in 3 months it ain't gonna happen right away
Not to jump into a dispute, but the HAZ in this photo looks like an exceptionally well controlled continuous weld. Spot welding would produce circular HAZs radiating from the center of the puddle.
These welds approach TIG beauty and I, for one, would appreciate learning more about the technique.
Are you sure a robot wasn't involved?!?!?
These welds approach TIG beauty and I, for one, would appreciate learning more about the technique.
Are you sure a robot wasn't involved?!?!?
Attachments
NASTYZEN
Well-known member
ZT, you ****!
I'd really like to see the results of tac, tac, tac,tac as compared to the ''e'' method. Bet you $100.00 bucks it's no where close to ZT 's consistency.
I'd really like to see the results of tac, tac, tac,tac as compared to the ''e'' method. Bet you $100.00 bucks it's no where close to ZT 's consistency.
SWT Racing
Well-known member
I do the same, as I feel it allows me to watch the weld pool burn in on thicker weldments. The only time I push the gun is when there is no other way to run the gun, such as an inside corner where I have to weld into the structure to prevent warpage, or on something like a 3G weld (vertical uphill).
You can generally tell a tack-tack-tack (or "tack and crack as we call it) weld by the HAZ, which will usually not have a continuous and or consistent delineation point. ZTFabs weld look like most of the high end chassis builders in the off road racing industry, at least in my experience.
One thing to consider on the gas flow, is that you may need to go up a bit on outside corner fillet welds, and you can use a little less on inside fillet welds.
That being said, I usually do much more TIG welding than MIG welding.
hunter1151
Well-known member
Great link........tells a great deal about this type of weld. Without attitude.
Thanks Draggin
IndyGarage
Well-known member
So, I'm going to chime in on the subject of the proper weld technique. Not because I have any kind of welding experience to add - I can't weld worth darn, but because I got a minor in welding in engineering school many years ago.
Fact is, if you want the strongest welds possible, the weld should have a continuous smooth flow, not the "pattern" you see in ZtFab's beautiful welds.
Absolute strength comes from consistent material thickness, with only random grain boundaries in the material. I would have to see a section and an X-ray of Ztfab's welds, but his technique of "patterning" the weld most likely introduces a pattern of grain boundaries. Near the point of metal failure, even very tiny inconsitencies in the pattern will produce stress spots, and those stress spots are where a fracture occurs.
That said I assume ZTFAB is not building space shuttle parts or even airplane parts. If that is true then his technique is most likely plenty strong for automotive or fabrication work, and the visual value of it is obvious to anybody that looks at it. Furthermore - these full-seam welds are very unlikely to get stressed near the point of failure.
The truth is that both points of view about welding are correct.
The only problem with these welds are that they are so good that I suspect many much less skilled weldors will attempt the same, without the same consistency and produce some potentially weak welds.
Fact is, if you want the strongest welds possible, the weld should have a continuous smooth flow, not the "pattern" you see in ZtFab's beautiful welds.
Absolute strength comes from consistent material thickness, with only random grain boundaries in the material. I would have to see a section and an X-ray of Ztfab's welds, but his technique of "patterning" the weld most likely introduces a pattern of grain boundaries. Near the point of metal failure, even very tiny inconsitencies in the pattern will produce stress spots, and those stress spots are where a fracture occurs.
That said I assume ZTFAB is not building space shuttle parts or even airplane parts. If that is true then his technique is most likely plenty strong for automotive or fabrication work, and the visual value of it is obvious to anybody that looks at it. Furthermore - these full-seam welds are very unlikely to get stressed near the point of failure.
The truth is that both points of view about welding are correct.
The only problem with these welds are that they are so good that I suspect many much less skilled weldors will attempt the same, without the same consistency and produce some potentially weak welds.
bjaspud
Well-known member
After seeing what ZTFab does his MIG and comparing it to what I do with my MIG I think its time to go home, hang up the welding helmut and start playing golf! Wow - nice work.
Spud
Spud
hunter1151
Well-known member
Well said Indy...........and very diplomatic, kind of wondered why you don't see these welds on buildings, ships, oil rigs, construction equipment and pipelines.
ZTFab
Well-known member
Or maybe it's the fact that short circuit transfer GMAW is not the appropriate process for any of the aforementioned weldments.
hunter1151
Well-known member
So Catapillar et-al don't use mig........and oil rigs are all built on site and all girts for buildings are stick welded...........thanks for clearing that one up
Sureshot
ALLIANCE MEMBER
IMHO Most welds look different because they were done for maximum speed/production including on ships and drilling rigs. Those welds may not be the absolute strongest possible but are way way more than adequate and look very nice. They would also be time consuming and time is money in business.
Some welding shops building hopper bottoms etc set the speed at max and adjust the current to get an "adequate" job.
Those welds take a super steady hand and very diligent operator. Kudos.
Some welding shops building hopper bottoms etc set the speed at max and adjust the current to get an "adequate" job.
Those welds take a super steady hand and very diligent operator. Kudos.
ZTFab
Well-known member
All I said was that none of the listed weldments would be appropriately welded with short circuit transfer mode in GMAW. I said nothing about location of the fabrication or other possible processes.....you did.
They may use GMAW but I highly doubt they use short circuit transfer mode on any of the components. I would bet that if they use a wire feed process that it is either in spray transfer (axial or pulsed) and/or a dual shield FCAW process.
Pipe is usually welded with GTAW or SMAW or a combo of both. But Im not a pipe welder, bridge builder, or CAT employed welder and, unlike some, I won't
claim to know it all about parts that I don't make.
...but I guess thats just my bad attitude.