Mig weld question

[bamf]

I have an Ironman 230 with the spoolgun that I've been trying to run some practice beads in preparation for a big project. I've TIG welded alot in the past (aluminum and steel) and feel very competent with that. I also have mig'd steel with great success. I'm about to beat my head into the wall with mig aluminum.

For practice I have been using 6061 1/8 plate cut into strips. I have 4043 .030 wire. I have 100% argon and have been running between 20-25 cfh. I just switched to a real flow meter too, with the ball and all (this seemed to have a small effect for the better).

As I weld I am not seeing the cleaning action take place around my weld which leaves a not so desirable looking weld and makes it hard to watch my puddle. I've tried short arc, spray weld, and a setting that creates globulars that plop down as they bead up. All of which I have been pushing and not pulling.

The only way that I have got clean welds is once the base metal gets hot and using the globular method I run the voltage setting at the lowest.

In the attached photo (ignore the start and stop spots) you can see the clean weld vs everything else. What I really want to know is - why am I not getting that cleaning action with anything other than globular weld deposit with the lowest voltage tap and heated base metal?

 

[AlexNGreen]

You cannot get the cleaning affect of AC TIG on a DC MIG. The cleaning affect comes from the alternating current pulling out the contaminants.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/aluminum-welding-hobart-ironman.html

 

[bamf]

Yea I have gone through his stuff, great info, but he still gets significantly more cleaning action than I am getting.

 

[ovrrdrive]

From everything I've seen on the net with a spool gun on Al those are very typical of what to expect. They're always sooty and globular like that. I think that's about the best you can do. To get any better you need AC TIG like mentioned above.

 

[sberry]

All the parameters are fussy, stickout and settings. There is a tendency to get too short like steel. Hobart 210

 

[bamf]

What were you running on that one? Roughly. ..like low mI'd or high on the voltage and wire speed? Cause that's still way cleaner than mine. The clean ones on mine are are rare for me.

 

[brownbagg]

did you switch the polarity wires for alumimum inside the machine

 

[bamf]

Yea DCEP same as the gas shielded steel setup. I even tried it the other way for grins...it's definitely setup right on that. I kinda have been thinking bad gas but I swapped tanks with another and no difference, but both were filled around the same time at the same place so I dont know. Like I mentioned earlier I did swap for a real flow meter and feel like it's slightly better, but that could just be a mental thing or I've just been monkeying with it so much that I'm getting better with it.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Are you pushing or pulling? Pushing and travelling quickly works for me.

 

[bamf]

I have been pushing and I have noticed that with as quick of a pace as I can maintain good wetting, the profile ends up looking halfway decent. But still don't seem to get good cleaning action.

 

[Bondo]

I have been pushing and I have noticed that with as quick of a pace as I can maintain good wetting, the profile ends up looking halfway decent. But still don't seem to get good cleaning action.

Ayuh,... Are you cleanin' the base metal, Before ya start weldin',..??

Aluminum oxidizes quickly, ya gotta clean it with a ssteel wire brush on yer angle grinder, Just before ya weld it,...
Metal cleaned yesterday, needs to be cleaned again today,....

I don't see any wire brush marks on yer test pieces,....

 

[bamf]

I used acetone then a scotch Brite pad on a couple of them and it didn't make a huge difference, the rest I lightly hit with a ss brush. I'll try to really clean the **** out of one later and see what I get. But I will say that I can get pretty decent results on an uncleaned piece when I tig weld, I know that they are even better cleaned but I can't even get near any of that with the mig.

 

[Zeke]

Remember that your contact tip needs to be properly sized to the wire. I don't know if .035 is too big for AL wire or not. Best to check that with an expert.

 

[bamf]

Ok so I cleaned the **** out of 2 strips (first acetone then ss brush and only brushing one direction) and there was no noticeable difference. Then to throw a monkey wrench in the mix I realized that I'm gonna need to use 5356 for some of the welding. I did a couple passes with the 5356 (see images attached) and got the same or worse results. There was considerably more splatter but as you can see its almost as if there is a "skin" on some of the welds. The brighter/cleaner spots were (once again) welded at the lowest setting once the base metal was good and hot.

I really don't think this is going to be some little detail like not quite clean enough or stick out is off a bit or whatever. I've run too many beads with too many adjustments and not even seen a glimmer of what I believe I should be seeing. In the videos that Jody has you can clearly see his puddle as he welds and it is smooth with cleaning occurring ~1/8 inch or so in front of the weld. I am not getting this at all.

 

[sberry]

Angle is really fussy as is stickout. You can actually run some downhill and it works fairly well.
You can see some flaws along edges of mine, I don't do this daily but they don't seem to hurt much in the grand scheme of things.
I never chemical clean, not really unless there would be actual grease but give it s swipe with brush and if its really dirty have a power wheel on a right angle.
There is a tendency to want to roll hands as we progress, its hard to fight this. Some days it just seems impossible to get this right, been there.
I really don't care much for working with aluminum, I got to do what I got to do though.

 

[TooMuchHair]

For what it's worth, I had a bad bottle of Argon one time that about drove me nuts. i always blame myself. It had been awhile since I had done an aluminum project. My Miller Dynasty has so many possible settings, I tried and tried, finally figured out bad Argon could cause the same bad welds I was getting. (Thanks YouTube) My supplier reluctantly exchanged the bottle, BOOM, instantly back on my game.

 

[bamf]

sberry - I assume that is a picture after cleaning? So you're saying to angle my part and run a bead down the hill? I'll try it when I get a chance but I've tried so many angles and stickouts that I think I would have seen a significant change by now.

Toomuchhair - yea I've been pondering this more and more. I have a really full tank and seriously doubt those guys are gonna swap my tank or even pro-rate it.

Is anyone near wake forest that has a spool gun setup that I can try to weld with? Cause that would eliminate the possibility of me being the problem assuming I get a decent weld.

 

[sberry]

Jody on tips and tricks is probably as good as it gets although I have never been there or watched. I am a career welder but my expertise is really in steel and I can get by in alum. Its really a fine line with it and I am not patient or disciplined enough on a day to day basis and my interest isn't in welding but more in maintenance/production and its all a means to an end. The only reason I do it is because its between me and something I want.
I likely brushed the last pic but the earlier ones were as welded. The push angle is rather minor, too much is as bad as not enough.

 

[bamf]

Yea I agree that he's pretty unique. I am not a novice to welding but on the other hand I don't do it everyday. I started welding back in college for the FSAE race team and now do it for mine own personal projects and at work for the times we need something welded (once or twice a month). I think welding is a skill that requires some level of artistic ability and and a lot of seat time. My welding became noticeably better once I got comfortable with the process and really was able to focus on the puddle as I welded. So with my current problem I just cant get the puddle the way I need it because it's not as visible as I believe it should be. There is a "skin" over my puddle constantly as I weld.

 

[Robert Haas]

As stated above, DC spool just does not have a "cleaning" property to it. However if the heat is high enough the soot appears to clear as it is actually burning away. That is what you see in the video.

As far as your welds, other then not seeing a good even distribution of heat nor any discernible flattening over penetration I imagine your issue has more to do with heat and speed.

I run my spool gun over 160 AMPs and do stacked or stitch style welding. Once done I take a power wire wheel to it and it looks almost presentable.

this is 1/4" alum plate @ 160 amps post brush.

 

[bamf]

So I flow checked at the nozzle and it was identical to the flow meter at the tank. Also swapped the wire for brand new wire from a different manufacturer. Same results as before.

 

[MJD1]

Mig aluminum does have somewhat of a cleaning action, when you are set right, you will have about 1/8-1/4" wide white color at the toes of the weld. On that 1/8" you need a travel speed 2-3 times that of what you would use on steel. Use about a 3/4" stickout and 10-15 degree from verticle push angle. On your starts if the metal is cold, you need to push ahead a ways ,and then back up to the start, and go over it to eliminate a cold start. 5356 will need more wirespeed. If 4043 isn't an option, 4943 wire may work, and it runs very much like 4043.

 

[bamf]

Probably gonna have to stick with the 5356 cause I have a lot of 5083 I'll be working with.

Maybe I can try to make a video of my welding. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Mitchw123456]

with my hobart gun I learned I have to crank of the amps, spray it, and move uncomfortably fast. Also, start with a steeper push angle and slower come back to just barely pushing. With lots of prep work with a stainless wire wheel, flap wheel, and acetone I can make farely respectable welds.

 

[bamf]

Ok so here are a few videos. The best looking finished product of all of these was the 2 4043 "glob" welds

4043 spray

4043 glob1

4043 glob2

5356 glob/short arc

These videos make my welding with this spoolgun even worse that I was imaging in my head....haha

The filming was a little tricky so I probably wont drag all that out again. I did alot more where I varied they stickout and the feed rate and the voltage. None of which I was pleased with.

And to salt my wounds I TIG'd a little bit of 1/8 inch stuff at work just to see what the puddle would look like on the camera... so I'm gonna go put the spoolgun to my head and pull the trigger

Here's the TIG

 

[bamf]

do you have any pictures of your welds Mitch?

 

[bamf]

Went back and watched jody's video ad I really think something is up with mine, even when he was dialing in the settings he was getting significantly cleaner welds.

Also on another note, how much tig welding of 1/8 aluminum can you realistically do with an air cooled torch. Assuming the duty cycle can handle it.

 

[sberry]

A lot, its what I used when I did it. The spoolgun has pretty much replaced it for me now. You can see the synch hiding. I took 2 machines off carts and put them on that anchor. 2nd pic, up hill and I really fly, not neat but super fast. Cast fitting about 1/8 to tubing about 60 thou or so.

 

[bamf]

So I got started on my big project and brought home a different tank of gas.... Unless I something else changed I think I had bad gas before. My welds are coming out great on this thing. This is .156 and .090 aluminum, 5083 and 30XX, with 5356 wire (0.030). No brushing after the weld, it is as is.