Mig welder not feeding

[warlok]

I have a Lincoln Pro mig 135 and have always used 75/25 gas and .024/.025 wire (Lincoln or Forney). Last time I used it I ran out of gas and had to switch to innershield .030 wire. The drive roller has 2 grooves, .035 and .023-.030. Stayed on the same side. Replaced the boytle and switched back to (Hobart) .024 wire and its not feeding. Just intermittently slipping. Tried the Forney .024 I had been using and its not feeding right either. Its not the liner. I put the .030 flux core back in and it feeds fine. Cleaned roller and it looks like new. Any ideas before I grab a new roller?

 

[matt_i]

More spring tension on the roller pair?

 

[Lwel9226]

How many hours on the machine??? Might need to clean the liner....
Tighten the drive roll....
Worst case ... might need new liner.....
Good Luck

LW

 

[koditten]

Don't you need a bigger tip to use .030?

 

[BPJOOP93]

Don't you need a bigger tip to use .030?

This. Did you change the tip?

 

[warlok]

I don't know how many hours are on it. I've had it about 13 years (from new) but have only put (2) 2# rolls of solid and maybe 1/4 roll of flux core wire through it. Only use it for projects at my house. I pulled the liner and blew through with compressed air (got a little dust), ran .024 solid wire through easily with my fingers. And the .030 flux core works fine. I think the liner is fine. I tried lower and higher tension on the roller but no real change. Got a little better with higher tension but not much. I was using the bigger tip for .030. I think I may need a drive roller but just seems weird that it would go bad from using not even 1/4 roll of flux core. Worked perfect and never had a problem before I used the FC.

 

[pepi]

This. Did you change the tip?

Don't you need a bigger tip to use .030?

He went DOWN to .024 that's smaller than 030


I'd check two things, drive roller tension as mention and the drag on the wire spool itself. You just want enough drag as to not get a bird nest in the spool when tacking.

 

[warlok]

The factory tension setting is 5 turns on. I tried everything from 2 turns to 11 turns. Slightly better from about 7 turns on but still slipped more than grabbed. And I had the spool all the way loose and tensioned with my finger. No good.

 

[Chateau Slate 66]

You said it was intermittent? My guess is there is a kink or bad spot in the liner.

 

[rpcraft]

Does the spool holder have a spring on it with a tension mechanism and just act as a holder or does it roll at the same speed as the wire feed? You might check there at the spool and see if there is too much tension if it is the tension type. I had some experience like that on a Lincoln Handy MIG once.

 

[zmotorsports]

For drive roll tension, I have never really had the best luck setting to the "recommended" settings. The method I have always used is to turn the gas off (so as to not waste it) then reduce the tension on the drive rolls to where the wire is not advancing. I place the tip of the gun on the concrete and squeeze the trigger while advancing the tension on the drive rolls. As soon as the wire pushes the gun up off of the concrete that is where I leave it. This is just enough that it will pull the wire off the roll smoothly (as long as it isn't bound up) and yet not high enough that you will get a bird's nest because it should slip before that happens.

One thing it could be is the groove may be just deep enough that the .024" wire is sitting too deep into the groove and not making enough contact with both drive wheels. If the roll of wire isn't bound up and the wire is not getting hung up in the liner or contact tip I would look at the drive rolls as the cause.

 

[warlok]

I said "intermittent", as in it grabs and lets go. Setting the speed at full (10) it grabs and pushes about a 1/4" every second or so and slips again. And .030 FC feeds perfect.

Spool tension - I've had it completely free wheeling and just put my finger on it to not have it birds nest and it still didn't pull. And again, the .030 FC pills from the spool fine.

And for drive tension, I did it as you say. But it won't even pull through with the .024. I agree about the groove may be too deep. But always worked before. I just got back from Airgas and they don't carry the one for my welder of course...

 

[warlok]

What the fu@$... Couldn't get a drive roller nearby so I grabbed some Lincoln .030 solid wire to try and use this weekend. While I was there just for the hell of it I grabbed some Lincoln .025.. Of course, the .025 worked perfect.. Anyone want some Hobart wire?? Slightly used and only thrown against the brick wall once.... Problem fixed..

 

[snyder]

Glad you fixed it. I was going to suggest the key fell out of the slot. Mine usually does when i flip rollers.

 

[Kaizen]

My drive pulley has two grooves. Can’t remember off hand if the 030 goes with the 035 or the 023. As the groove wears it becomes an issue as you describe


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[Lwel9226]

If .025 works and .023 doesn't it sounds like your drive rolls are worn.... Buy new rolls for .023 wire and mark the old ones for .030 only and you should be OK... Happy welding..

LynnW

 

[BigMike782]

One groove should be a smooth V groove(solid wire) and the other should be a knurled groove(flux core).

 

[matt_i]

It seems likely from above that somehow the adjustable roller travel (despite the spring pressure) is somehow bottomed out on a hard stop before it can contact the .023" wire fully.

It sounds like the problem is resolved but maybe a tiny bit of file work could solve the problem...sounds like you'd only need to take off .002" if the micrometer measurements of the wire prove out to be the same as the labels.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I've had a problem with wire feeding before. Sometimes, you just have to run some of the wire out and get past a bad spot in the roll of wire.Sure it wastes wire but if it's no good, it's no good.

One tip I picked up from a buddy was to take a small piece of blue paper towel, wrap it around the wire and hold it on with a clothes pin. It helps clean the wire before it hits the roller.

 

[koditten]

The liners do come out. Take it apart and inspect it. We've always poured acitone down the liners to remove buildup. Obviously let it dry good before using it.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I've had a problem with wire feeding before. Sometimes, you just have to run some of the wire out and get past a bad spot in the roll of wire.Sure it wastes wire but if it's no good, it's no good.

One tip I picked up from a buddy was to take a small piece of blue paper towel, wrap it around the wire and hold it on with a clothes pin. It helps clean the wire before it hits the roller.

Weld Aid mfg a split pre lubed cleaner with spring, 6 /pkg. Run one for 3 months and trash it.

The liners do come out. Take it apart and inspect it. We've always poured acitone down the liners to remove buildup. Obviously let it dry good before using it.

You cant really clean a liner. Just replace when needed,

The key part of the story is " run one spool and went back to original". I suspect the end of the wire was released and spun around a few times. The problem fixed by a new spool of same wire clinches the hunch. If you carefully unspool some wire until you get to undisturbed wire, it should feed ok. It will never fix itself. If the drive rolls keep spinning with the now higher pressure without the wire moving, it mess up the wire at that point. (The puny drive motor in little machines cant push the tiny defect through the liner. The last thing you should do is start changing drive roll pressure. If it was fine earlier, it is fine now. Make certain your mig gun is straight and level until it feeds ok again.

Sometimes fluxcored (especially small spool self shielded flux cored) is covered with a waxy lube/rust preventer ( think how hard it is to roll up that tiny strip of flat steel with flux spread evenly inside and then crimp it) that gums up liners and doesnt play well with almost rusty rough copper flashing.

Did you change the polarity and drive roll back to correct settings? You will not live long enough to wear out a set of drive rolls.

 

[welder4956]

http://www.fabricatingandmetalworking.com/2017/02/choosing-right-drive-roll-key-smooth-wire-feeding/

"The three types of drive rolls most commonly used for wire welding processes are V-knurled, V-groove and U-groove.

- V-knurled drive rolls are used with gas- and self-shielded flux-cored and metal-cored wires that are softer due to the flux inside and the tubular design. This type of drive roll has teeth to dig into the wire and help push it through the feeder drive system and gun cable. V-knurled drive rolls are not typically used with solid wire and may cause shavings to break off the wire. Those shavings can clog the liner and negatively impact wire feeding.
- V-groove drive rolls are normally used with solid wire. The extra push provided by V-knurled drive rolls is not needed with solid wire, which is stiffer and tends to feed better through the liner.
- U-groove drive rolls are designed for use with aluminum wires or other very soft materials. When using soft wires such as aluminum, it’s important to avoid marring the wire surface or deforming or mashing the wire. A U-groove drive roll helps to feed the wire through the liner while still keeping the wire’s round shape."

 

[Lelandwelds]

http://www.fabricatingandmetalworking.com/2017/02/choosing-right-drive-roll-key-smooth-wire-feeding/

"The three types of drive rolls most commonly used for wire welding processes are V-knurled, V-groove and U-groove.

- V-knurled drive rolls are used with gas- and self-shielded flux-cored and metal-cored wires that are softer due to the flux inside and the tubular design. This type of drive roll has teeth to dig into the wire and help push it through the feeder drive system and gun cable. V-knurled drive rolls are not typically used with solid wire and may cause shavings to break off the wire. Those shavings can clog the liner and negatively impact wire feeding.
- V-groove drive rolls are normally used with solid wire. The extra push provided by V-knurled drive rolls is not needed with solid wire, which is stiffer and tends to feed better through the liner.
- U-groove drive rolls are designed for use with aluminum wires or other very soft materials. When using soft wires such as aluminum, it’s important to avoid marring the wire surface or deforming or mashing the wire. A U-groove drive roll helps to feed the wire through the liner while still keeping the wire’s round shape."

Well, you missed u cogged. And, some people mix and match. I guess I missed your point? I bet his problem is the wire end got away from him. They dont exactly level wind 4 inch spools of wire. The OP will not wear out a set of drive rolls in his lifetime.

 

[welder4956]

Well, you missed u cogged. And, some people mix and match. I guess I missed your point? I bet his problem is the wire end got away from him. They dont exactly level wind 4 inch spools of wire. The OP will not wear out a set of drive rolls in his lifetime.

The point is that you need knurled drive rolls for flux cored wire. The smooth rolls don't do as well and tend to slip.

 

[AngryBeaver]

The point is that you need knurled drive rolls for flux cored wire. The smooth rolls don't do as well and tend to slip.

this....

 

[apollo11]

The point is that you need knurled drive rolls for flux cored wire. The smooth rolls don't do as well and tend to slip.

Lincoln sells a special roller for this
mine just arrived

 

[Lelandwelds]

The point is that you need knurled drive rolls for flux cored wire. The smooth rolls don't do as well and tend to slip.

So, the smooth rolls slipping on the flux cored affect his solid wire how? Solid wire has the feeding problem. (I suspect it is an operator problem as I mentioned in the earlier post.)

If you use the correct size and set up and operate machine carefully, almost every style drive roll works on every wire and lasts nearly forever.

 

[welder4956]

So, the smooth rolls slipping on the flux cored affect his solid wire how? Solid wire has the feeding problem. (I suspect it is an operator problem as I mentioned in the earlier post.)

If you use the correct size and set up and operate machine carefully, almost every style drive roll works on every wire and lasts nearly forever.

Ok, I missed the part where the problem occurred after switching back to solid wire. Most likely have the wrong groove on the roll or spring tension is too loose.

 

[PugetDude]

Problem was diagnosed and solved in post #13... yet diagnostic theories, personal testimonials and SWAG's are still being offered 15 posts later.

That's why I love this forum.

 

[Lelandwelds]

What the fu@$... Couldn't get a drive roller nearby so I grabbed some Lincoln .030 solid wire to try and use this weekend. While I was there just for the hell of it I grabbed some Lincoln .025.. Of course, the .025 worked perfect.. Anyone want some Hobart wire?? Slightly used and only thrown against the brick wall once.... Problem fixed..

The key part of the story is " run one spool and went back to original". I suspect the end of the wire was released and spun around a few times. The problem fixed by a new spool of same wire clinches the hunch. .

I am trying to help keep this problem from re occuring.

If you remove spool and let the end loose, the wire will let deeper layers get on top of the free end. Some machines have a scrub brake or too loose of a spool hub spring brake which lets the same thing happen. Four inch spools which take a road trip are especially bad.

 

[Lelandwelds]

You might check the gun because inside the gun are very fine strands of copper wire that will eventually break and wear out with time.

If you mean the power cable, tougher than you think. If you mean trigger leads, some guns (like Profax) have four trigger leads. You must ruin three before gun is dead.

Thats not the OP problem.

 

[J king]

Been having same problems.. doing a lot of welding lately and bought a 10 lb spool of harbor freight Vulcan wire.. didn’t work. I kept thinking it was something else since it’s just wire right? Trashed it..works ok with Lincoln wire but have intermittent feed problems sometimes . Replaced the tip and all is well. I can’t figure out why the tips are causing a problem since they seem ok but as soon as I put a new one one it flows fine.

 

[850xpeps]

Been having same problems.. doing a lot of welding lately and bought a 10 lb spool of harbor freight Vulcan wire.. didn’t work. I kept thinking it was something else since it’s just wire right? Trashed it..works ok with Lincoln wire but have intermittent feed problems sometimes . Replaced the tip and all is well. I can’t figure out why the tips are causing a problem since they seem ok but as soon as I put a new one one it flows fine.

What size tip on what size of wire?

 

[J king]

.023 or .025. Can’t remember. It had been a real battle.
I changed liner. Took a skim cut off the roller in the lathe.. fought everything because the **** wire.. but also had the tip issue.. I can’t believe I didn’t smash the welder.. glad I didn’t

 

[Lelandwelds]

.023 or .025. Can’t remember. It had been a real battle.
I changed liner. Took a skim cut off the roller in the lathe.. fought everything because the **** wire.. but also had the tip issue.. I can’t believe I didn’t smash the welder.. glad I didn’t

If a tire leaks air, do you shave some tread off?

Been having same problems.. doing a lot of welding lately and bought a 10 lb spool of harbor freight Vulcan wire.. didn’t work. I kept thinking it was something else since it’s just wire right? Trashed it..works ok with Lincoln wire but have intermittent feed problems sometimes . Replaced the tip and all is well. I can’t figure out why the tips are causing a problem since they seem ok but as soon as I put a new one one it flows fine.

Funny how most guys use the same oil brand for decades and wouldnt dream of switching but use any wire they bump into. Buy your wire from some place with" welding supply" in the name. Pick a slow time and tell the old fart behind the counter of your feeding problems. In the 1980s, Miller use to include a VHS tape with each machine sold. It was excellent.

.023, .024, and .025 are all the same wire.