Mig welding, gas shielding or flux?

[Burt Shaver]

My apologies as I know this subject t has been covered many times, I’ve read through a lot of different threads this morning as well as information on other sites but still have questions. I’m considering buying a welder to weld in exhaust components, perhaps try my hand at some metal art and I’m sure I would find other uses, I have never welded except at one time when I was much younger I owned some type of stick welder, I couldn’t get it to work very well, I once tried welding an old snowmobile ski but I continuously had my welding stick, stuck to my work. The welder disappeared years ago. My research so far tells me that a mig welder is the easiest for someone with no experience to learn on and that it can weld thinner metals without burning through. I know pretty much nothing about the whole process so any advice is appreciated. One thing I couldn’t find was how the gas shield works? Is it a seperate machine? I just don’t understand where the shielding gas comes from. It is my understanding that you can buy a mig welder that uses flux core? I believe the wire is coated in flux that burns off and shields the weld from atmospheric gases? Would a complete novice be better with the gas shielded mig or the flux core mig? Excuse me of my terminologies are wrong. Thanks for any help.

 

[wssix99]

Here is an article that will help you get close to fact: https://www.millerwelds.com/resourc...rsus-flux-cored-wire-when-to-use-them-and-why

For a beginning welder, I would recommend starting on flux-cored wire. As you get good and have a need for high-quality welds and/or want more attractive welds, you can learn how to add gas to the mix.

 

[619DioFan]

The titanium flux core welder from HF is highly rated. For 150.00 it will do alot. With flux core you can weld outside without worrying about shielding gas loss on a windy day. Not having to have gas on hand is a savings. As a DIY guy I use a flux core wire welder and for heavier stuff I have Lincoln tombstone stick welder.

 

[LopezBart]

If you have a chance to do so, spending an afternoon with a friend who is a good welder will really help you boot-strap your learning... having someone watch what you're doing, and offer advice while you're welding really helps. I learned to weld stick starting in high school, and that's what the shop teacher would do if one was having trouble... later on a good friend did the same as I started welding together more consequential things like trailers. The other thing is that a auto-darkening helmet and proper (bright) lighting of your work area will help overcome some of the initial coordination issues that can plague beginners.

 

[Burt Shaver]

If you have a chance to do so, spending an afternoon with a friend who is a good welder will really help you boot-strap your learning... having someone watch what you're doing, and offer advice while you're welding really helps. I learned to weld stick starting in high school, and that's what the shop teacher would do if one was having trouble... later on a good friend did the same as I started welding together more consequential things like trailers. The other thing is that a auto-darkening helmet and proper (bright) lighting of your work area will help overcome some of the initial coordination issues that can plague beginners.

My son in laws father is a welder, I will round him up some afternoon for beers and welding

 

[Zeke]

You can see the puddle better with gas. If you want to learn technique for really nice looking welds, you might consider the gas. If you're welding to get welding done, go with FCAW.

To answer your question, you have to buy a bottle, regulator and have a gas capable welder. A lot of production guys like dual shield using both.

 

[nadogail]

I have a “Stick Welder” it is not conducive to welding thin pieces of metal together.

If I were to add a TIG Torch and a supply of inert gas I could learn to weld razor blades together.

IMHO, the best welding process is the one that best fits the task you want to do.

As others have posted, guided practice is very probably the best way to become a Weldor.

Flux core MIG may be the easiest way, other than Oxy Acetylene to weld exhaust systems together.

For many years I saw mechanics welding exhaust pipes together with an Oxygen Acetylene torch and old coat hangers.

I have seen a lot of changes in my Years of experience.

 

[Burt Shaver]

I have a “Stick Welder” it is not conducive to welding thin pieces of metal together.

If I were to add a TIG Torch and a supply of inert gas I could learn to weld razor blades together.

IMHO, the best welding process is the one that best fits the task you want to do.

As others have posted, guided practice is very probably the best way to become a Weldor.

Flux core MIG may be the easiest way, other than Oxy Acetylene to weld exhaust systems together.

For many years I saw mechanics welding exhaust pipes together with an Oxygen Acetylene torch and old coat hangers.

I have seen a lot of changes in my Years of experience.

I was going to ask about welding with torches, I hadn’t seen it listed in any of the websites I had visited but thought I remembered as a child my great grandfather welding with torches in his auto repair shop. It was so long ago, I wasn’t sure if I was remembering correctly. I would imagine this is not an option for a beginner.

 

[nadogail]

Gas Welding and Brazing seems to be fading away, probably because of the availability of inexpensive MIG welders.

 

[Burt Shaver]

So just when I think I’m starting to understand the different types of welders I get confused again, let me see if I have this right? I was looking at an article by New England Institue of Tech. It mentions 4 main types of welding GMAW/Mig Gas Metal Arc Welding. This originally was the type of welder that I thought I should be learning on as it says it’s easier to learn for beginners, doesn’t burn through thinner metal as easily and makes good welds. I thought that there were 2 types of mig welders, one that uses gas for shielding and 1 that has a flux applied to the wire for shielding but now I’m thinking that mig welding with flux core wire is really (FCAW) welding? Is mig welding only with gas for shielding? The easy-flux 125 amp from harbour freight that was recommended in an earlier post would be a (FCAW) then? Both the FCAW and GMAW/Mig feed the wire from a spool? Difference is that the GWAW/Mig uses gas and the FCAW uses a wire with flux as a shield? Not sure if the wire is coated or if t he flux is inside the wire but am I correct in my last statement?

 

[LopezBart]

I was going to ask about welding with torches, I hadn’t seen it listed in any of the websites I had visited but thought I remembered as a child my great grandfather welding with torches in his auto repair shop. It was so long ago, I wasn’t sure if I was remembering correctly. I would imagine this is not an option for a beginner.

Torch welding (oxygen + fuel gas) is certainly still doable, but commercially TIG and MIG have largely replaced it. Torches are still useful for brazing with bronze or silver alloys and soldering, of course. If you want to weld steel together inexpensively, flux-core wire feed works well for the thin stuff, and use a stick welder for the thicker stuff.

 

[Jackfre]

Back in the 60’s we began our welding training with oxy/acetylene welding. It is pretty cool once you get your hand, BUT, you need a good gas rig and by the time you buy that you may as well step up to what you want to do and that is weld metal together. I would not do flux core. Having the gas rig just helps you identify your weaknesses. You can see your penetration and tie-ins clearly. Flux-core is a good process, but all that flow gets in the way of the puddle which you need to see. So many want to learn to weld and some are really dedicated to it. How much time can you invest? If you have a busy life, Marshall your time resources, pick a process and become capable, proficient, good and then become a hand. That is gas MiG, imo!

 

[steel 35]

If buying a mig make sure it is capable of both, ad the tank when affordable or immediately;
Which ever comes first.

 

[Jackfre]

Oh, one other thing. Don’t get a 120V machine. Go 240. You will be happy you did. I like my welders Blue, but don’t really know the options today.

 

[Burt Shaver]

Back in the 60’s we began our welding training with oxy/acetylene welding. It is pretty cool once you get your hand, BUT, you need a good gas rig and by the time you buy that you may as well step up to what you want to do and that is weld metal together. I would not do flux core. Having the gas rig just helps you identify your weaknesses. You can see your penetration and tie-ins clearly. Flux-core is a good process, but all that flow gets in the way of the puddle which you need to see. So many want to learn to weld and some are really dedicated to it. How much time can you invest? If you have a busy life, Marshall your time resources, pick a process and become capable, proficient, good and then become a hand. That is gas MiG, imo!

I can’t see myself investing a ton of time learning to weld. With obligations to family, work, other hobbies etc. I would strive to be no more than a hobbyist welder. I only wish to be able to weld 2 pieces of steel together on a budget, I’m thinking only if exhaust components at this point because we have a few cars that are in need of repair.

 

[Burt Shaver]

Oh, one other thing. Don’t get a 120V machine. Go 240. You will be happy you did. I like my welders Blue, but don’t really know the options today.

Oh oh, I was hoping to get a 120v machine. I only have 120v in my barn where I made my little shop. I probably have 2 open spots in the box to run 240 but didn’t want to. Are the 120v machines a waste?

 

[gearhead1]

Burt, the ‘MIG’ machine may be the exact same for flux core or gas welding. Some of the low end MIG welders are flux core only, there is no provision for shielding gas, meaning there is no port to attach it to and there is no control system to actuate it.

As far as I know, you can take any MIG welder that is designed for shielding gas and put flux core wire in it and run it as a flux core.


What we generically call a MIG welder can do FCAW or both FCAW and GMAW processes. In simple terms, flux core wire or regular wire with the shielding gas tank.

*If you are using flux core wire, the name of the process being used is synonymous with the acronym FCAW which means Flux Core Arc Welding. Inside the wire is a flux and when it gets hot, it creates the shielding gas.
*If you are using regular wire and shielding gas, the name of the process being used is synonymous with the acronym GMAW which means Gas Metal Arc Welding.


ASME code allows flux core (FCAW) for pressure vessels. There is nothing wrong with flux core. Most guys I’ve talked to prefer the gas bottle as it typically has less spatter and looks better.

I started out with a Lincoln WeldPak and flux core, bought it to fix a motorcycle exhaust. Had to grind the welds a lot to get it to look decent. It was cheaper to buy the welder than it was to get an exhaust for a 25 year old motorcycle. Later on, I bought the conversion kit to make it a gas rig. I liked welding with gas much better, I knew that going in it, but it’s all I could afford at the time.

 

[gearhead1]

Oh oh, I was hoping to get a 120v machine. I only have 120v in my barn where I made my little shop. I probably have 2 open spots in the box to run 240 but didn’t want to. Are the 120v machines a waste?

For most of us serious DIY guys, we can quickly push the limits of a 120V machine. You can get by with it, but you’ll need a dedicated 20A circuit or you’ll trip the breaker if you weld much other than sheet metal.

Most guys find more uses, more things to weld, due to the increased capability once they get into welding. That’s why most guys here steer toward a 240V gas machine.

Depends on what you think you might get into if you had the capability.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

If you're welding exhaust outdoors I reccomend the fluxcore.
And a 120V machine is capable up to 1/4" with multi passes. Exhaust is perfect use case for 120V fluxcore. Machine is small and portable.

 

[nadogail]

I have found that my projects get bigger as I increase my capacity to complete them, sort of like lifting heavier weights and more repetitions as you increase your strength.

 

[gearhead1]

Back in the day, you pretty much had to get a Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart if you wanted a decent welder. These days there are many good quality alternatives.

ITW owns both Miller and Hobart. Those welders share some design and some components. They are based in Appleton, WI.
Lincoln is based in Cleveland, OH.
Miller and Lincoln are the top players and they will also cost the most.

For a serious DIY person, if you want a US based company, consider the Hobart.

If you are not concerned about country of origin consider PrimeWeld, AHP, Everlast, or Longevity.

I bought a PrimeWeld TIG and it is a quality unit, I would not hesitate buying anything PrimeWeld.

 

[gearhead1]

For $550, this will allow you to weld 5/16” steel and 3/16” aluminum. Comes with everything you need except gas bottle. One idea is run flux core now, upgrade to gas bottle later. It is 120V and 240V. Will work on either, but you get max output on 240V.

3 year warranty, and US based customer service.

MIG180 180-Amp MIG Welder With Spool Gun

The MIG180 mig welder includes upgraded Tweco 100 Style torch and American style connection. Order online today from PrimeWeld to get free shipping.

primeweld.com

 

[PWC Repair]

The term "MIG" is just commonly thrown around by people that don't know any better. Kind of like "I'm thirsty and need a "coke". When, in fact I'll be drinking a Mtn. Dew! Your guess and statement are correct about the mig and FCAW. I had 3 years welding in high school, including advanced welding. Welding or brazing with torches is hard.....it takes lots of practice. Buy the HF Titanium flux wire welder. It's easy to weld with, works great up to 1/8" thick steel. And runs on 110v.........what's not to like? I use mine ALL THE time. And I have torches, and an Alpha Tig, and a plasma cutter. The cheapy HF welder will do anything the average guy needs to do.....and if you get quality wire and practice enough it can make some pretty welds. See link below.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/hybrid-utility-trailer.470653/post-8863859

 

[Kemerling]

My apologies as I know this subject t has been covered many times, I’ve read through a lot of different threads this morning as well as information on other sites but still have questions. I’m considering buying a welder to weld in exhaust components, perhaps try my hand at some metal art and I’m sure I would find other uses, I have never welded except at one time when I was much younger I owned some type of stick welder, I couldn’t get it to work very well, I once tried welding an old snowmobile ski but I continuously had my welding stick, stuck to my work. The welder disappeared years ago. My research so far tells me that a mig welder is the easiest for someone with no experience to learn on and that it can weld thinner metals without burning through. I know pretty much nothing about the whole process so any advice is appreciated. One thing I couldn’t find was how the gas shield works? Is it a seperate machine? I just don’t understand where the shielding gas comes from. It is my understanding that you can buy a mig welder that uses flux core? I believe the wire is coated in flux that burns off and shields the weld from atmospheric gases? Would a complete novice be better with the gas shielded mig or the flux core mig? Excuse me of my terminologies are wrong. Thanks for any help.

Burt I learned to weld using Oxygen/ Acetylene 50 years ago, I've used it for body work and exhaust. Its a great way to learn the welding process. But the excess heat will lead to warping on sheet metal panels. After retiring and building my own shop to concentrate on my hot rod hobby I bought a Lincoln 180 MIG welder, it is capable of running Flux core wire and solid wire with gas shielding. Gas shielding is the way to go especially for a beginner, it is easy to learn and produces good welds with minimal cleanup. You can go online and find many good videos to learn how to set up and begin welding. And most small welders will convert to run off 110. As far as burn through there are NO welders that can prevent that! A good MIG will help you minimize that problem. Go get one and get started, maybe go to a junk yard and see if you can find a scrap fender to take home and practice on. Good Luck

 

[csp]

MIG is an acronym for Metal Inert Gas, aka GMAW. If you don't have gas for shielding you aren't MIG welding. Flux core and MIG are both wire feed processes and can be done by the same machine, so wire feed welders are commonly called MIG welders. It's just like using the name Kleenex for any facial tissue.

If you're going to buy a wire feed machine buy one that's capable of both shielding methods. There are some that will only do FCAW, but any machine capable of GMAW is also capable of FCAW.

 

[jonesg]

Oh oh, I was hoping to get a 120v machine. I only have 120v in my barn where I made my little shop. I probably have 2 open spots in the box to run 240 but didn’t want to. Are the 120v machines a waste?

most modern consumer machines run dual voltage and they auto switch for you.
My machine is 120/240 but I have never had to use 240 yet because I'm practicing exhaust repair.

so it makes sense to get a machine capable of flux and gas with dual voltage.

 

[Jswain]

The main 2 things IMO is don't waste money on a machine that isn't capable of running gas in the future, and don't waste money on a machine that isn't capable of switching to 240v on the future.

Exhaust work is fairly lame as is, with fluxcore it is going to be even more lame, especially if the pipe is worn out/thin/rusty. I would highly recommend welding gas for this, but nothing wrong with trying fluxcore first AS LONG as you buy a machine that is capable of adding gas in the future.

 

[tarmy]

Practice, practice and some more practice. Clean metal and have a good quality fire extinguisher right there where you are working. Protect the eyes and good ventilation.

Go on WeldingWeb and you will learn a lot and ask these types of question there. There are a lot of very experienced people there. Sometimes a rough crowd…

 

[finn]

Oh oh, I was hoping to get a 120v machine. I only have 120v in my barn where I made my little shop. I probably have 2 open spots in the box to run 240 but didn’t want to. Are the 120v machines a waste?

Nothing wrong with a 120v mig welder, although a 120-240 v welder would be better.

120v would cover 90% of any homeowner or automotive requirements

If you’re welding six bottom plows, bulldozers, or log forwarders, hold out for a 240v machine.

 

[PoorUB]

Oh, one other thing. Don’t get a 120V machine. Go 240. You will be happy you did. I like my welders Blue, but don’t really know the options today.

I have been running 120 volt, 140 amp MIG for 35+ years and it has served me well. I have built a few equipment trailers, one for a buddy with a mid sized skid steer. So I wouldn't be so quick to discount a 120 volt MIG.

That said I just bought an Millermatic 210. So far I REALLY like it. Welds much better then the old MIG I had.

 

[californiamilleghia]

Back in the late 80s most of the Mig welders were made in Italy , the European shops used them years before I started to see them in the USA.
But I was also around auto repair shops where fixing rusty rockers to pass Inspection was much of the work.

 

[MJK]

Nothing wrong with a 120v mig welder, although a 120-240 v welder would be better.

120v would cover 90% of any homeowner or automotive requirements

^ I agree, and having a 120V option makes it usable a lot more places.

I'd skip flux core unless finances dictate otherwise. MIG & C25 makes some very nice welds without much of a learning curve.

As far as budget goes, looks like $1000 will get you everything you need at Cyberweld (welder, bottle, a good helmet and gloves)

 

[theoldwizard1]

Any MIG welder that can use gas can also do flux-core. The opposite is NOT true !

If you buy a 120V, flux core MIG welder and really enjoy it, you will soon be buying a 120V/240V gas-shield MIG or possibly TIG !

Decent Chinese 120V/240V gas-shield MIG welders are under $400.

 

[haveissues]

I would skip the flux core only welders and get something at least capable of using shield gas. Some of the newer inverter welders are multi process - they do flux core, mig, stick and basic tig.

 

[FL Guy]

I’m a diy for last 8 month and use mig with 75/25 gas mix.

I just wish I can learn how to strike an arc with stick. FML, I couldn’t do it to save my life

 

[wssix99]

Oh oh, I was hoping to get a 120v machine. I only have 120v in my barn where I made my little shop. I probably have 2 open spots in the box to run 240 but didn’t want to. Are the 120v machines a waste?

They are not a waste for thin metal and small welding jobs. For building larger things (like a fence) or welding thicker plate, you'll need 240V.

If you don't have the time to really dive in and perfect your welding technique, I think flux core MIG is going to suit what you are looking to do. (It's pretty forgiving.)

 

[wssix99]

Not for the OP, but while we are talking about welding, we can't forget Thermite Welding:

...before I die, I'm going to find a practical use for this around my neighborhood. (Maybe weld some parallel parked cars together for giggles?)

 

[Burt Shaver]

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0B1RN53PR/?tag=atomicindus04-20

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09JJPCTYN/?tag=atomicindus04-20

What are your thoughts on 1 of these 2?

 

[finn]

PrimeWeld MiG 180 is a 110/220 volt gas /flux machine from a known company with a good support reputation and a 3 year warranty. They pay shipping if warranty is required.

Price is $549 less a $25 instant discount. I don’t have that particular machine, but do have a tig machine from them.

 

[jonesg]

second the primeweld 180, it is multi capable, flux core/ mig with gas, stick welds and even comes with spoolgun for alum welding.
3 yr warranty, very responsive service dept.
to get the same capability with a 3 yr warranty from harbor freight will cost you $600 extra....with poor resale value.
primweld well also sell you a big tank of gas , via UPS, for less money than the gas supply house.

MIG180 180-Amp MIG Welder With Spool Gun

The MIG180 mig welder includes upgraded Tweco 100 Style torch and American style connection. Order online today from PrimeWeld to get free shipping.

primeweld.com