Mill info?

[brats.n.harleys]

i have an oppertunity to buy this browne and sharpe milling machine, and dont know anything about it. i have a south bend lathe that i use all the time for motorcycle fab stuff, and have been looking for a mill causually on craigslist for a while now, mostly bridgeports, just because that seems to be the one most fabricators have.

Is this one worth getting? (keep in mind mostly motorcyle stuff) Also, does anyone know if it is 220v?? im hoping its not 480, that might be a deal breaker.

thanks for any replies

 

[zkling]

Depends on your needs and uses, as well as price.

That is a universal milling machine. It can be fitted with a vertical cutting attachment (as seen in the pic) or be used in horizontal mode for really removing moving material.

It can make darn near any goofy angled cut that your imagination can dream up. BUT It is not really designed for hogging off large amounts of material.

For the home shop it would be an OK mill. Downside being lack of quill travel like on a bridgeport. If you do consider purchasing it make sure to check it out thoroughly. They have a rather complex transmission and can be very expensive to repair. Also check the taper on the collets for the vertical head. Some of the older B&S machines used a, now rare, B&S proprietary collet that is really hard to find these days. When it comes to mills and lathes the tooling included is usually the selling factor.

 

[Turbo_Prop]

Not familiar with the mill in discussion, but I too use a bridgeport style mill (Cincinnati) for work on harleys. I like the bridgeport style better than this B & S as the bridgport works sort of like a large, very precise drill press. My friends and I use the mill often. Think hand tools are costly, wait till you start buying tooling for a mill. Mine runs on 3-phase and required a converter to use in a single-phase residential building. Parts for a bridgeport are pretty easy to source. Might want to look into that as well.

 

[brats.n.harleys]

thanks for the replys. in the second picture you can see some of the accessories it has. not sure what most of them are, but there is a rotory table..
price is $500

 

[larry_g]

Agree with zkling and would add that if it comes with the items seen in the table you have a rotary table, overarm support, center and some tooling. The taper on that machine is not common but available. At $500 I would be after that and if you get it I'd give large suckage to you.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[2mJps]

Its a good buy and I bet its 3ph but it will not easyly do what you want to do For what you are wanting to do a bridgeport or something like it is the way to go. This mill will do alot of work but is not as easy to run as a bridgeport.

 

[Steve from Socal]

That is a pretty old B&S with the motor in back, it will have a b&S taper in the spindle if it has not been reground. It is as mentioned a universal with a universal vertical head, the real down side to having no quill feed is, drilling, boring or, plunging on an angle. If the stuff on the shelf behind it comes with it; look for a dividing head, there is a foot stock for one on the shelf. For 500.00 buck that is a great package and even if it is 480 don't worry, either get a transformer or get a new starter and rewire it for 240.

Steve

 

[DocsMachine]

Mostly good info here. It's a fair-sized machine, looks like it's in currently-being-used condition, and if that rack behind it all goes with it (don't count on it, unless the shop's closing down entirely) it's a pretty good score for $500.

IF it comes with a fairly good selection of tooling- as in cutters, holders and arbors- it'd make a fairly decent machine. Assuming nothing's broken or badly worn, of course. As a horizontal mill, it can hog off huge amounts of metal, and as a vertical, with the swivelling/rotating head and swivelling bed, you can cut some fun angles and oddball pieces.

On the other hand, the spindle taper is nonstandard. If that toolholder on the table is representative, it's not a Brown & Sharp taper (or at least the 'standard' ones like B&S #9, etc.) It's probably some proprietary "quickchange" taper of some sort. Again, if the machine comes with a fair to large selection of tooling and holders, this isn't a big issue- just keep in mind you'd likely have to scour auctions and eBay for years to replace or add to.

And, as noted, it doesn't have a quill- in other words, the spindle doesn't move like a drill press. And for day-to-day repair work, at least speaking personally, I use my mill to drill, or just as a precise drill press, often enough that the lack of a quill would be a pretty fair annoyance.

Lastly, you can all but guarantee it's 3-phase. And that means the coolant pump as well. Meaning you'd either need at least a 10hp rotary converter, or a pair of VFD's.

If it were me, and I had the room, I'd take it in a heartbeat. But I'd set it up and use it primarily as a horizontal, and I'd continue to keep my eyes open for a good vertical mill with a quill.

But then again, I'm a machinist. I like having multiple machines. (Three mills, two lathes, five drill presses... )

Doc.

 

[justanengineer]

Thats early 40s I believe, being single overarm. I would buy it in a minute if you have room and it hasnt been beaten on too badly, but dont be mistaken, its got a decently big footprint and will be a bit of a pig to move (~4k Id imagine) but not too awfully difficult. As Doc said, it will hog metal significantly better bc its 10x more rigid than any vertical mill and will also be much more versatile. If you can either find or fabricate an adapter, you could remove the vertical head and hang Bridgeport head in its place, then have a VERY versatile machine. Call me crazy, but Id rather have versatility in the home/hobby/prototype shop than anything else.

If you had to buy them individually and paid "going rate," youd be at least halfway to the $500 in just tooling with the rotab, dividing head (I see half of it), overam support, and anything else youd get.

 

[brats.n.harleys]

Dammit. I should have taken a picture of the shelf and some more of the machine. All that does come with it. Sounds like the head not being able to move up and down is a killer. But is raising the table up into the head not right, if I did need to just use it like a drill press?

 

[joshuaz223]

moving the table up and down is hard to do and lacks the feel of a quill. it can be done and was done for years it just takes some getting used to. I use my table lift instead of the quill a lot because the first mill I owned is very similar to the one here. for precision work they recommend using the table and keeping the quill up and locked. the rotary table is worth what they are asking in my opinion. buy it, play with it and learn on it. for $500 you cant lose.

this is my monster 10,000# plus

 

[Steve from Socal]

Dammit. I should have taken a picture of the shelf and some more of the machine. All that does come with it. Sounds like the head not being able to move up and down is a killer. But is raising the table up into the head not right, if I did need to just use it like a drill press?

You can use the z axis(table up/down) to feed either by hand or power feed. The table has a lot of mass and you don't have a sensitive feel with small drills or cutters, the bigger issue is you can't come up at an angle. With a quill you can position the cutter at an angle and drill into the part, to do this with the table would require a sine or angle plate to generate the angle with the part attached to it.

All in all this would give you a tremendous capability and do perhaps 95% or more of what you would generally encounter. The angle plate deal is not a huge issue and this is a well equipped machine at a great price. Get it or you will regret it!

Steve

 

[DocsMachine]

Thats early 40s I believe, being single overarm.

-It's a double overarm. Look at the middle pic, you can see the two 'bosses' behind the head.

Also, for the OP, that lever thing on the top is a sort of crane for mounting and dismounting the vertical head. You unbolt the head, slide it forward, and the crane takes all the weight.

You then turn the crane to the right side (as seen in the first picture) where it's "stored" over that flat panel with the sticker, right below the "Brown & Sharpe" nameplate.

The two larger bolts at the bottom of that panel are removed, the head slid up against it, and bolted into place. That keeps it with the machine and ready to use, but out of the way, and doesn't require a separate overhead crane or 'cherry picker'. Very useful since the head probably weighs close to 200 lb.

Also, I can't stress this enough: If you decide to get it, get everything. That cabinet behind it doesn't look all that big, and while some of it is very useful (the rotary table and especially the overarm outboard support) I don't see more endmill holders apart from the two on the machine, and worse, I don't see any horizontal arbors.

If the place has a toolroom of any kind, or a storage room, or whatever, be sure to check there for more toolholders, horizontal arbors, horizontal cutters, maybe a hold-down kit, and so on.

While cutters and vises and such are nice to have, they're also relatively easy to replace. Horizontal arbors, especially in B&S tapers, are a lot harder to come by. Get all you can.

Doc.

 

[930dreamer]

Are there other machines for sale? Keep us updated.

 

[rsanter]

I have used a similar one a bunch and loved it.
Raising the table to feed in is not that big of a deal as long as you are not doing drillin operations.
If it comes with all the stuff and is in good working order then get it and use it.
If you want a knee mill later you can sell this or part it out for your money back

Bob

 

[RonRock]

You could scrap it out and recover your money if for some reason it didn't fit your needs. Might be a good way to get a feel for what you really need.

 

[brats.n.harleys]

I'm waiting for their email. There are a few other lathes, large grinders, drill presses, etc. But its a weird situation because its a power plant that went bankrupt. It's not running at all but there's 2 guys there for upkeep while they're trying to sell the entire plant. I asked if they were selling any of the stuff in the machine shop and he said he could tell his boss an offer. So I offered up 500 for the mill. She said yea, get rid of it but said she would email with who to make a check out to and if any insurance stuff was gonna come into play.

If they do email and I can get it I probably will. The power thing ***** and it'll be a lot of work to re organize garage stuff to fit it in but will be worth it in the end I suppose. I've randomly looked at Bridgeports on cl for a while now and when they do pop up, look like ****, nothing with em, and average maybe $2200. And I assume those are 3 phase anyway.

One other question. While looking up phase converters, seems like a rotary is the way to go yea? Have never had to deal with one or know anything about them.

 

[KMScott]

One other question. While looking up phase converters, seems like a rotary is the way to go yea? Have never had to deal with one or know anything about them.

I have a rotary Phase converter here in the Colorado mountains. It needs plenty of power to fire up and it shook my house apart when I had it mounted on a heavy shelf attached to my wall. I had to mount it on a semi brake drum and bury it in dirt. Remember the rotary phase converters are an out of balance electric motor creating only one leg of power. The two other legs are created from your 220 single phase but re directed in three equal phases. My wild leg is 170 volts so I know this leg is not used for my servos on my CNC's. I believe you will not have a issue with your machine on how you use or where the manufactured leg is hooked up.

Mine is a 5 HP converter and very heavy. I can not remember the name but I purchased it through MSC.