Miller Pricing

[info2x]

My wife must really hate my Volvos to the point where for Christmas she was going to buy me a welder. I've been giving her the excuse that I need to fix them before I get rid of them and they need a bit of welding. I've been looking at the Miller Multimatic 220 since I don't really want two machines but I do both MIG and TIG depending on the project. I know a lot on this forum typically suggest two different machines.

Anyways... She thought through a game of telephone at work she could swing a deal but that ended up not panning out so it's up to me to make the purchase. I was originally thinking of waiting until January or likely later, but it looks like there are some killer sales going on right now bringing the price down from $5300 to $4200 + the build with blue rebate, and most places are offering decent helmets for free as well. It's been a bit since I've looked at prices and the sale price is closer to what I remember the MSRP but such is life these days it seems.

Any reason to wait to pull the trigger here?

 

[finn]

I have a Miller MIG, and a Miller plasma cutter, plus a couple of HTP machines, ie, another MIG, plus an inverter TIG unit.

The Miller stuff is nice, no doubt, but they really are targeting industrial users with their products. The HTP stuff, as an example, is roughly half the price of the equivalent Miller, and is made by Stell in Italy.

The latest welding equipment from China is half the price of HTP, and, for a home shop, seems to be entirely adequate for anything a home welder throws at it.

Go over to the Cyberweld message board and poke around a little. Based on what I saw there, I picked up a Primeweld TIG machine for our winter home. Not state of the art like an HTP or high end Miller, but more than adequate for my needs.

 

[ItsNemo]

Miller prices have nearly doubled (or at least 50% up) in the last few years. I have a 215 which I paid around $1500 CAD for, but with current prices I probably wouldn't have bought Miller...they're just way too much such that the value for money proposition is gone.

 

[Aaron_W]

Miller prices have nearly doubled (or at least 50% up) in the last few years. I have a 215 which I paid around $1500 CAD for, but with current prices I probably wouldn't have bought Miller...they're just way too much such that the value for money proposition is gone.

Same with Lincoln and ESAB. I bought my welder in 2019 and was shopping Miller 211, 215, 220, Lincoln 210, a couple of the ESAB multi process machines and Hobart (which was my be prudent and just buy what I actually need option). All have seen similar price hikes of at least 40%+ except for Hobart.

Agree with you, I am very happy with my Miller 220, but it was already pushing my budget beyond my comfort level at $2900, there is no way I could push to the current $4200.

I'm glad I have my Miller, but the price gap between Hobart or imports and most of the big name brands has become huge. Quite a few import 200A DC TIG only multi-process machines around $1000 vs $3000 for the Miller 215 or Lincoln 210 set up for TIG.

 

[BarrelRoll]

I've bought both my welders from cyberweld. Great pricing and no issues. It looks like my 211 is up 40% since 2018 when I bought it. Cyberweld does let you use paypal and you can usually get 0% for 6 months from paypal if you aren't ready to buy yet though think pricing is going to go up.

https://store.cyberweld.com/miller-multimatic-220-welder-907757.html If you don't want the helmet they will take $275 cash off the purchase price putting it at $3924 right now.

 

[corn chip]

mm220 has always been around 4k-4.2k. who the hek told you it was 5.3k ? but ya theyre $4200 right now. then miller $250 rebate on top of that but that expires tomorow or sunday. some online stores also have additional rebate like ioc which is addition $100

 

[GaryM909]

I bought a multimatic 220 Oct 2020. $3800 CAD. Now they go on sale at around $5300 CAD. Probably the first thing I ever bought that I could resell and get my money back.

 

[scooby074]

I love Miller products. I have several, but I looked up the current price for my 252 ($6700 at Air Liquide, $5500+freight elsewhere) and its over 2x what I paid for the welder 10ish years ago. Not sure what Id do if I had to replace it because everything else, Esab 235ic (MP) $6400, Lincoln PowerMig 256 $5500. They are all in the same ballpark for that power class.

 

[corn chip]

better hurry if you want a rebate. miller site says it expire tomorow presumably at midnight

 

[info2x]

https://store.cyberweld.com/miller-multimatic-220-welder-907757.html If you don't want the helmet they will take $275 cash off the purchase price putting it at $3924 right now.

I don't mind a new helmet. My old one is pretty beat up no name one that isn't auto darkening.

mm220 has always been around 4k-4.2k. who the hek told you it was 5.3k ? but ya theyre $4200 right now. then miller $250 rebate on top of that but that expires tomorow or sunday. some online stores also have additional rebate like ioc which is addition $100

Most places show 5300 as list, miller doesn't but it's the first time I recall seeing a price that high.

better hurry if you want a rebate. miller site says it expire tomorow presumably at midnight

Exactly. The rebate is, to me, somewhat trivial, but if the price is going to make a big jump then it's worth it to jump now.

 

[Michael_in_DE]

I am not that great with welding knowledge. But I have heard nothing but great things about primeweld welders. They have 3 year warranties and the customer service is excellent. The owners even participate in the FaceBook forum for primeweld users. Guys rave about the welders. they have a new multiprocess welder that just came out, that is supposed to be pretty awesome. I got the mig180 for christmas. Now I just have to get an electrician to install the wiring for the 220.

Here is last years version:

MTS200 200 Amp 3-in-1 Welder

The PrimeWeld MTS200 200 Amp TIG, MIG, and Stick 3-in-1 Welder performs DC MIG, Flux Core/TIG, and Stick welding for the perfect weld, every time.

primeweld.com

There are specs for the new 285 floating around and I am sure they will provide them upon request.

 

[info2x]

The PrimeWeld stuff looks good. It's missing AC Tig which I'd like for some limited aluminum work. I'm also looking for HF start which is mainly a personal preference over lift arc. I was spoiled when I learned

The prices are competitive enough that I could probably buy two machines though...

 

[corn chip]

I don't mind a new helmet. My old one is pretty beat up no name one that isn't auto darkening.

Most places show 5300 as list, miller doesn't but it's the first time I recall seeing a price that high.

Exactly. The rebate is, to me, somewhat trivial, but if the price is going to make a big jump then it's worth it to jump now.

if your infact buying a machine ,why throw hundreds of dollars down the toilet by waiting.
theres no telling when the next rebate will be or how much it will be. or when the next price increase will be. could be in 2mon. might not be for 6mon. impossible to say.

 

[Aaron_W]

The PrimeWeld stuff looks good. It's missing AC Tig which I'd like for some limited aluminum work. I'm also looking for HF start which is mainly a personal preference over lift arc. I was spoiled when I learned

The prices are competitive enough that I could probably buy two machines though...

If the $4200 doesn't turn you off, the 220 is a very nice machine for a multi-process. I have very little shop space so a machine that basically gives me 2 machines in the foot print of 1 is a great thing.

Nothing wrong with a multi-process, but if the size is not a significant factor for you there are advantages to buying separate TIG and MIG machines. The biggest one to me is there are many features available on TIG machines and the 220 is a solid middle of the road but kind of basic TIG. A good one, but lacks some of the fine tuning or fancy features of others. As a general purpose AC / DC TIG welder it is fine, but it may be lacking for those considering more specialized work.


Price wise though the 220 is a pretty fair deal if you are only considering Miller. You are not spending any more to have MIG and TIG combined in one machine than buying separate Miller MIG and TIG. The MIG side is basically a 211, but there is no direct comparison on the TIG side. The 220s TIG is generally better than the Diversion 180, but falls short of the Synchrowave 210.

A Miller 211 with a Diversion 180 would run you about $4700, so even timing it to use rebates you will spend more for little gain. Miller 211 + Synchrowave 210 puts you at nearly $5700, definitely a better TIG machine, but another $1500 so it better be.

 

[boom_bap]

Have you gotten a quote for the work done vs buying the machine and completing the work yourself.

IMO price out the job, and if it makes sense to pay someone else do that, otherwise buy a machine now and get it done since it already paid for itself, and you get the machine out of it.

 

[info2x]

Have you gotten a quote for the work done vs buying the machine and completing the work yourself.

IMO price out the job, and if it makes sense to pay someone else do that, otherwise buy a machine now and get it done since it already paid for itself, and you get the machine out of it.

The Volvo's are the tip of the proverbial iceberg. I haven't gotten a quote for them, and if that was the only project that I would be using this for then I'm 100% in agreement with you.

 

[Mike S.]

I just got the Multimatic 220 about a week ago. It was $4200 and I got a Digital Elite helmet for half price.

I don't know anything about welding yet, but this seemed like it would be a good one to use while I learn. Shop space is limited for me so the main selling point was having two units in one.

 

[boom_bap]

I haven't gotten a quote for them, and if that was the only project that I would be using this for then I'm 100% in agreement with you.

Sounds like you need a welder then

 

[boom_bap]

I would check out the used market if you want to go with a Miller. You didn't mention if you wanted AL capabilities, or maybe I missed it.

A lot of the Lincoln MP machines have DC lift arc tig with foot pedal capabilities. They're mostly MIG machines, but can run stick and DC lift arc (210 MP for example).

I'd probably think about what materials you are most likely to use the machine for. If you do need AL capabilities at some point, and you want to TIG it then you really have one choice.

I would probably buy this machine for TIG as a non pro: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...ny-extras-new-never-used.502900/#post-9879798

That deal is an absolute steal for what it comes with and you can always just add other torch consumables like gas lenses and whatever you want. CK stuff is worth the money, ie super flex hoses are amazing. I'd buy wedge collets and gas lenses immediately too.

One last thing to consider: If you buy a Miller or Lincoln new you are prepaying for customer service and their elevated pricing reflects that. If you're a hobbiest, you don't need that service even if you think you do. They're machines are made in China like every other machine and when a board goes out they'll charge you the $1.5-2k it cost to replace it if you're outside of warranty. If you care about warranty they're good options and may be worth the price. When you buy an import brand you take a hit on service and warranty potentially, this is where places like harbor freight come into play with their Vulcan line and extended warranty, something to consider.

 

[American Locomotive]

"Big Name" welder prices from companies like Lincoln or Miller are absolutely outrageous right now, and are a hard "Do Not Buy" IMO. When the Lincoln Power Mig 210MP made it's debut in 2015, it was a $999 machine. In 2021, it was up to $2000. Now it's replacement - the 215MPi is also a $2000 machine. Their Square Wave 200 TIG? It was a $1500 machine in 2015 when it came out. Now it's $2400.

Don't get me wrong - I love premium machines from American companies. So much so that I own a Lincoln Square Wave 200. I love my SW200, my friend has put down miles of wire with his Power Mig 210MP, and I know a lot of happy Miller customers as well. I used to recommend anyone looking for a semi-premium TIG or MIG to buy them. But the reality is these machines are now objectively bad value.

For the price of that Miller, you could get an HTP Invertig AND an HTP Pro Pulse 220 MIG. These machines together are far more capable, and offer way more features, control, and tech. Just look at the Pro Pulse 220 with its pulsed MIG features - something Lincoln and Miller do not offer on their "entry level" multiprocess machines. Even the duty cycle of the HTP machines are far better. The HTP offers 100% Duty Cycle @ 140A, the Miller offers "just" 60% Duty Cycle @ 105A. The miller is 130A @ 40% duty cycle for TIG, the HTP Invertig is 145A @ 100%....

Lincoln and Miller used the pandemic as an excuse to increase their machine's prices 50-100%, and have kept those prices high since. Their newest machines are way behind on both features AND performance compared to the European (ESAB, HTP) and Asian (Primeweld, HF) competitors. Those European machines have proven themselves to be highly reliable and great performers. You're paying a huge tax to get Red or Blue paint, while missing out on features and performance.

Skip the red and blue machines until they get their pricing straightened out.

 

[dnschmidt]

HTP is the best bang for the buck without question on MIG. The Propulse 220 is unbeatable. For TIG HTP's stuff is great too but in my opinion unnecessary. The Primeweld dedicated TIG with AC is the best value and the AHP has stood the test of time as well. If you do TIG commercially then the HTP Invertig 221 is the bomb. If you're just dicking around in your home shop it's more machine than you need.

 

[G-ManBart]

They're machines are made in China like every other machine and when a board goes out they'll charge you the $1.5-2k it cost to replace it if you're outside of warranty.

Untrue. Miller's machines are made in the U.S. using components made from all over. I'm sure a large percentage of the parts are made in China. Lincoln's machines are made in Mexico with similar global components.

 

[G-ManBart]

For background, I own a Miller Millermatic 350P, Syncrowave 250DX TIGRunner, Regency 200 with an S22 wire feeder, Hobart Champion Elite and an Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT and have owned literally 50 other welders in the past few years. I managed to buy the Millers at auctions over time and got really good deals or I wouldn't have them....just too much for a hobby welder IMO. I would tell anyone to avoid Everlast...they weld nicely, when they work, but their customer service is beyond awful...personal experience with that nightmare.

Miller is the best about having parts for older machines by a long shot. When I was fixing up older machines I was able to get parts for Millers that were from the early 1970s...honest. Lincoln doesn't support machines very well past about ten years old. Hobart is part of the Miller family and almost all their machines are either based off a previous Miller model, or based on a current model with less features. Hobart customer service is Miller customer service.

Both Miller and Lincoln are targeted at commercial users. If a shop has twenty guys welding all day and one of their machines breaks, they call up their dealer who sends someone to pick up the broken unit and drop off a loaner...that's a big part of why they cost more. You can call Miller or Lincoln and get a technical person on the phone pretty easily as well.

For the price of a Multimatic 220, I would buy a Hobart Ironman 240 and a Primeweld 225X or wait until Primeweld releases their new 325X (any day now). The 225X is under $900 and the 325X is reported to be something like $1,500...hard to get 325A of AC/DC TIG for that sort of price. I've recommended Primeweld to a couple of friends and coworkers who are extremely happy with them. I'm very eager to hear reports on the 325X when it comes out...add a water cooler and you'd have a ton of capability.

I won't knock ESAB or HTP at all, but their prices aren't exactly cheap...certainly less than red or blue, but still more than most hobby welders will spend.

 

[info2x]

I would check out the used market if you want to go with a Miller. You didn't mention if you wanted AL capabilities, or maybe I missed it.

A lot of the Lincoln MP machines have DC lift arc tig with foot pedal capabilities. They're mostly MIG machines, but can run stick and DC lift arc (210 MP for example).

I'd probably think about what materials you are most likely to use the machine for. If you do need AL capabilities at some point, and you want to TIG it then you really have one choice.

Aluminum is on the list.

I looked heavily at the Lincoln 210MP when it came out a few years ago. The lack of AC and HF start (1st world problem) where what kept me on the sidelines.

"Big Name" welder prices from companies like Lincoln or Miller are absolutely outrageous right now, and are a hard "Do Not Buy" IMO. When the Lincoln Power Mig 210MP made it's debut in 2015, it was a $999 machine. In 2021, it was up to $2000. Now it's replacement - the 215MPi is also a $2000 machine. Their Square Wave 200 TIG? It was a $1500 machine in 2015 when it came out. Now it's $2400.

Don't get me wrong - I love premium machines from American companies. So much so that I own a Lincoln Square Wave 200. I love my SW200, my friend has put down miles of wire with his Power Mig 210MP, and I know a lot of happy Miller customers as well. I used to recommend anyone looking for a semi-premium TIG or MIG to buy them. But the reality is these machines are now objectively bad value.

For the price of that Miller, you could get an HTP Invertig AND an HTP Pro Pulse 220 MIG. These machines together are far more capable, and offer way more features, control, and tech. Just look at the Pro Pulse 220 with its pulsed MIG features - something Lincoln and Miller do not offer on their "entry level" multiprocess machines. Even the duty cycle of the HTP machines are far better. The HTP offers 100% Duty Cycle @ 140A, the Miller offers "just" 60% Duty Cycle @ 105A. The miller is 130A @ 40% duty cycle for TIG, the HTP Invertig is 145A @ 100%....

Lincoln and Miller used the pandemic as an excuse to increase their machine's prices 50-100%, and have kept those prices high since. Their newest machines are way behind on both features AND performance compared to the European (ESAB, HTP) and Asian (Primeweld, HF) competitors. Those European machines have proven themselves to be highly reliable and great performers. You're paying a huge tax to get Red or Blue paint, while missing out on features and performance.

Skip the red and blue machines until they get their pricing straightened out.

Thanks. I've got 240 in the shop so the DCs are a bit better, but I agree certainly less than the HTP specs

For background, I own a Miller Millermatic 350P, Syncrowave 250DX TIGRunner, Regency 200 with an S22 wire feeder, Hobart Champion Elite and an Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT and have owned literally 50 other welders in the past few years. I managed to buy the Millers at auctions over time and got really good deals or I wouldn't have them....just too much for a hobby welder IMO. I would tell anyone to avoid Everlast...they weld nicely, when they work, but their customer service is beyond awful...personal experience with that nightmare.

Miller is the best about having parts for older machines by a long shot. When I was fixing up older machines I was able to get parts for Millers that were from the early 1970s...honest. Lincoln doesn't support machines very well past about ten years old. Hobart is part of the Miller family and almost all their machines are either based off a previous Miller model, or based on a current model with less features. Hobart customer service is Miller customer service.

Both Miller and Lincoln are targeted at commercial users. If a shop has twenty guys welding all day and one of their machines breaks, they call up their dealer who sends someone to pick up the broken unit and drop off a loaner...that's a big part of why they cost more. You can call Miller or Lincoln and get a technical person on the phone pretty easily as well.

For the price of a Multimatic 220, I would buy a Hobart Ironman 240 and a Primeweld 225X or wait until Primeweld releases their new 325X (any day now). The 225X is under $900 and the 325X is reported to be something like $1,500...hard to get 325A of AC/DC TIG for that sort of price. I've recommended Primeweld to a couple of friends and coworkers who are extremely happy with them. I'm very eager to hear reports on the 325X when it comes out...add a water cooler and you'd have a ton of capability.

I won't knock ESAB or HTP at all, but their prices aren't exactly cheap...certainly less than red or blue, but still more than most hobby welders will spend.

Thanks.

I think I'm going to hold for a hot minute. My garage is unheated and even though it's unseasonably warm here in MI at the moment the use rate is going to be about nil. That will give me some time to look at some of the options you guys laid out. Appreciate all of the input here. Exactly why I came.

 

[finn]

HTP is the best bang for the buck without question on MIG. The Propulse 220 is unbeatable. For TIG HTP's stuff is great too but in my opinion unnecessary. The Primeweld dedicated TIG with AC is the best value and the AHP has stood the test of time as well. If you do TIG commercially then the HTP Invertig 221 is the bomb. If you're just dicking around in your home shop it's more machine than you need.

Glad to see we agree on this one. Like I said, I have Millers, a couple of HTP s, and I like them.

But, when I was looking for something to use down here in Az, I opted for the Primeweld Tig 225x,m an ac-dc machine . I paid about $750, delivered, with a three year warranty (BF price.. They have a very active FB presence, and excellent reviews on the Cyberweld site.

It’s no HTP, but it’s no circa 1990 Harbor Freight, either. It seems that a lot of start up fab shops, with limited budgets are moving towards these imported machines, seemingly with good results.

The Millers have their place, but it’s no longer in the home shop.

 

[American Locomotive]

The Millers have their place, but it’s no longer in the home shop.

What I find really interesting is that just 6-7 years ago, both Lincoln and Miller seemed to directly target the "prosumer" guys with their affordable multiprocess machines. The Miller MM215, Lincoln SW200 and PM210 were all around $1000-1500 and seemed to be aimed squarely at the market the multi-process machines from China were catering to.

Then at some point its like they realized pros were also buying these machines for their compact sizes and features, jacked the price up and told the home shop guys to pound sand.

 

[boom_bap]

If you're welding automotive, just keep in mind that lift arc is probably what you want. HF can cause issues real quick. Of course required for AL, but if your welding direct on chassis, just something to be aware of.

 

[corn chip]

sounds like op got a $4k reality check and realized better pump the brakes a bit

 

[info2x]

sounds like op got a $4k reality check and realized better pump the brakes a bit

I originally noted that a bunch of places including cyber weld were noting that the price was 5300 normally but it was on sale at 4200. Since that turned out to not be the case (as you noted and I confirmed with the internet archive) the attraction of saving over 1000 went away. Yeah the build with blue rebate was there for 250 which is nice, but there is no point is jumping at a 4k purchase over 250 bucks.

A few options that I hadn't considered also came up as well although I would like to avoid China as much as I can.

 

[corn chip]

none of the big names are made in china. miller assembled in usa. lincoln mexico. esab india. htp italy. theyre all using global components. origin of those components is likely a mixed bag. for sure theres china stuff in all of them im sure.
mm220 msrp on millers own site is $4199. any store saying other wise is obviously a scam

 

[crewchief888]

waited 9 months for a miller 325EFI gas engine welder for my service truck.

 

[ybnormal]

I finally got a good deal on a used Hobart Handler 140 last summer off CL. full gas tank, lines, cart, 2 helmets, goggles, cover, couple reels, and kept CLEAN by the owner. $500. but I spent MONTHS waiting for something like this, not even spotting something like it at the auto swap meets.
then again, an item like this is harder to find in my area of non-working class individuals.

 

[info2x]

waited 9 months for a miller 325EFI gas engine welder for my service truck.

I wish I could say I'm surprised. I know a lot of places are still dealing with inventory issues on all kinds of things. Run into it at work still

I finally got a good deal on a used Hobart Handler 140 last summer off CL. full gas tank, lines, cart, 2 helmets, goggles, cover, couple reels, and kept CLEAN by the owner. $500. but I spent MONTHS waiting for something like this, not even spotting something like it at the auto swap meets.
then again, an item like this is harder to find in my area of non-working class individuals.

I keep half an eye out, but honestly I don't have the patience for it. I like welding and fabricating but this isn't my day job.

 

[ybnormal]

I was searching and waiting for close to 2 years and I was on a strict spending budget with a certain capability in mind. I would actually have preferred a slightly heavier duty unit (180?) or a dual-voltage model. but this find was as close as any as I had come.