Milling driveway, binder vs no binder

[Zeromoative]

I currently have a really nice gravel driveway, the problem is my son suffered a car accident, is in a wheel chair, and cannot wheel on it. I had an asphalt contractor quote me an astronomical figure to have it paved. The drive way is 15' wide and 450' long till it hits the parking area that is 36'x54'.
I started looking into using millings and a product called Hawke Seal to rebind the millings into a hard surface so he can wheel easily around it. Has anyone here had experience installing a milling drive way?
I know millings come in all grades from old and dry to freshly removed, and I haven't seen what I can get for $11 a ton yet. That being said Hawke Seal claims it can rebind millings into something like a hot asphalt install. Has anyone used this or a similar asphalt emulsion? What are my options?
I read lots of posts on using diesel to soften the asphalt in the millings to rebind them, but its controversial.

 

[jkeyser14]

There is zero way to make millings into a fresh asphalt like surface, otherwise everyone would do it. Going rate for asphalt paving over an existing base is around $2/sq. ft. on the low end.

Millings are better than gravel, but even the best millings won't be great for a wheel chair.

 

[csp]

My dad had millings that they laid through a paving machine, the same kind of machine used for putting down new asphalt. It was impressive how smooth it was and we wheeled my mom around in a wheelchair on it for a time.

 

[stevied916]

There is zero way to make millings into a fresh asphalt like surface, otherwise everyone would do it. Going rate for asphalt paving over an existing base is around $2/sq. ft. on the low end.

Millings are better than gravel, but even the best millings won't be great for a wheel chair.

They are almost always mixed into new hot mix at up to 15%. I don’t know that I have ever seen them used as a stand-alone product. Slutty seal or microsurfacing is an asphalt emulsion mixed with fine aggregates that is used as a roadway resurfacing product over existing asphalt although it doesn’t have any structural integrity. It is used as a new wearing course.

 

[Cheepbeer]

Millings will run black water every time it rains. I've had some down for 20 years and there's still black **** when it rains.
Usually the millings you can get these days are ground off the surface and don't have substantial size stone. If the cost is $11 a ton, around here driveway stone is $10.50, so I sure wouldn't use that garbage. Back when I got 'em they were free. Now they B.S. people telling they pack like aspalt.
They also tell ya crushed concrete will set up like concrete when it's watered and rolled.

 

[manwithtools]

They are almost always mixed into new hot mix at up to 15%. I don’t know that I have ever seen them used as a stand-alone product. Slutty seal or microsurfacing is an asphalt emulsion mixed with fine aggregates that is used as a roadway resurfacing product over existing asphalt although it doesn’t have any structural integrity. It is used as a new wearing course.

It's not very helpful to all the readers when you post your location as "home". Things such as asphalt millings and gravel/stone grades are "very" regional. What's common in Vermont is verboten in New Mexico, etc. Please tell us more about your location relative experience. You may find out it's completely different in another location.

 

[topcok88]

A friend and coworker was convinced that asphalt millings were his secret to an inexpensive solution for a driveway. He saved so much money letting them come and dump that garbage they call millings in his driveway he got to spend the rest in labor trying to spread them out to resemble a smooth surface. The appearance is terrible, uneven, and rough but man did he save mo.... He really didn’t save any money.


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[Viper98912]

Being just a little bit different here -

Have you thought about changing the wheels and tires on his wheel chair? Get some big wide girthy tires on it that would help it get around. And if it doesn't fit through the house, come up with a transfer or something of the sort.

Might be something more economical to do, especially if you're a DIY and can come up with something "cool"

 

[jshillin]

I've seen it put down where it's nicer than gravel, but might still be tough in a chair

 

[Tennessee Cattleman]

Paving or concreting just the parking area might be the only option that is affordable, maybe come up with something besides a standard wheelchair for the rougher landscape. I can't imagine how much that whole driveway plus the parking area would cost to pave.

 

[gnpenning]

Being just a little bit different here -

Have you thought about changing the wheels and tires on his wheel chair? Get some big wide girthy tires on it that would help it get around. And if it doesn't fit through the house, come up with a transfer or something of the sort.

Might be something more economical to do, especially if you're a DIY and can come up with something "cool"

This is what I was thinking also. Having known someone that has a off road powered chair, that he leaves in the garage on a charger allowing him full access to all of his property and other outdoor opportunities elsewere. I'm sure you have seen them and know the cost.

If you were having other issues with your driveway then it might be a different story. More importantly I don't know the extent of your son's injuries and if this is even possible. Sorry for your son's situation.

 

[Bondo]

My dad had millings that they laid through a paving machine, the same kind of machine used for putting down new asphalt. It was impressive how smooth it was and we wheeled my mom around in a wheelchair on it for a time.

Ayuh,..... I was in the pavin' biz for years,..... This right here,^^, is right on the money,.....

Run millin's through a paver, treatin' it just like hot mix, a smooth finish, 'bout 2.5 to 3" thick,....
Then Pound the hell out of it with a double drum roller,.....

A month in the hot sun, 'n you won't need any "Sealer" for it,.....

On a solid base, it'll last for many years,....

 

[rustyjames]

Millings will work fine, if properly placed and compacted, especially if the user is in a powerchair. So will recycled concrete and quarry blend. The absolute worst surface is stone with nothing to bind it. Don't even think about using diesel fuel.

 

[topcok88]

Ayuh,..... I was in the pavin' biz for years,..... This right here,^^, is right on the money,.....

Run millin's through a paver, treatin' it just like hot mix, a smooth finish, 'bout 2.5 to 3" thick,....
Then Pound the hell out of it with a double drum roller,.....

A month in the hot sun, 'n you won't need any "Sealer" for it,.....

On a solid base, it'll last for many years,....

So I have no experience with using asphalt millings and have only seen them used by friends. So if I’m understanding correctly the process to a reasonable finish is: use a paver to deposit the millings (just like a hot mix) and then use a double drum roller to compact the surface.

So I get the benefit of saving money on (questionable) material but then have to apply the material using commercial equipment and I have to assume labor expense to expect a reasonable finish?

This literally sounds like the “cheap pavement solution” that serves little to no purpose for little savings. “Oh look I can save so much on material!” “I had to still spend the same labor and equipment cost to apply it for a reasonable finish...”

It’s like the pavement equivalent of the human centipede.


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[csi123]

I hope i dont sound insensitive, but will your son be in the wheelchair temporary? And how old is your son? If you are talking about a kid who will be in the wheelchair for a few weeks or even months it seems odd to pave a 450' driveway just so that he can roll around on the driveway. If he is going to be in the wheelchair for a longer time and he is an adult that need to go out on his own then you may as well spend the money on something that he won't have to worry about in the future.

Last but not least is that something the insurance will potentially cover?

 

[davecz]

I have a 550" 15" wide milling driveway and my brother in law is in a powered wheel chair. He does fine on the driveway but depending on the time of year sometimes its easier. I have to grade my driveway every spring to level it out. Some parts of it are better than others, some are like a normal highway and some it wont compact enough.

After doing some research I thing Im going to give hawk seal a try, diesel works somewhat but its not an exact science and will add to contamination.

Depending on cost it good be a great product, I have access to equipment so it will make it easier

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

What do you have for a driveway and parking area currently? Is the base layer compacted and solid? If not nothing will hold up.
Can the current material be compacted in place?

I was in a wheel chair for several months. Smooth compacted gravel (even hard dirt) was no problem to move across. Biggest issue was the tires picking up dirt.

 

[no704]

 

[rustyjames]

The only issue with any type of non hard pavement is that if it's wet out the tires will pick up dirt and that can be a bit of a chore to remove.

 

[Two Speed]

So I have no experience with using asphalt millings and have only seen them used by friends. So if I’m understanding correctly the process to a reasonable finish is: use a paver to deposit the millings (just like a hot mix) and then use a double drum roller to compact the surface.

So I get the benefit of saving money on (questionable) material but then have to apply the material using commercial equipment and I have to assume labor expense to expect a reasonable finish?

Around here you find a paving contractor that does millings to save you the end user money.
I know a couple folks that have gone this route and have very good results. How much did they save? COuldn't even guess but one I know of was laid down about 15 years ago in a commercial setting.
I wouldn't call millings a DIY project unless you already own the equipment to spread and compact it.

 

[topcok88]

Around here you find a paving contractor that does millings to save you the end user money.
I know a couple folks that have gone this route and have very good results. How much did they save? COuldn't even guess but one I know of was laid down about 15 years ago in a commercial setting.
I wouldn't call millings a DIY project unless you already own the equipment to spread and compact it.

So that would make more sense and I have not heard that being an option from a paving contractor. It is interesting that you wouldn’t call it a DIY project as that is mostly where I see it brought up. Maybe that is a common misconception also? I can only assume the only savings would be the product as I can’t imagine a company offering labor and equipment for less just because the product is less expensive. I do remember getting quotes before I did my driveway and labor was 75% of total cost (concrete was about 50/50).


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[Two Speed]

I guess if you got the time and feel like renting equipment its DIY. I'd also hazzard to opine that most peoples problems with millings is they start out with poor material and/or they don't do a good job compacting. The compacting being one of the more predominant factors that keep coming up. Not plate tampers, not walk behind but big heavy ride on compactors to properly pack the material together.

 

[Ran when parked]

I have 1300 feet of driveway. I have used millings fresh off the road. The local paving companies will dump them at your location for minimal money (less than $50 a tandem load) if you are close enough to the job. I had a friend with a skid steer and I used a sub compact garden tractor with a loader to make it smooth. I rented a 5 ton roller for a weekend and pounded the **** out of it. It's smooth and hard as asphalt. Some areas on hills may tend to erode over time. If your driveway is graded to allow water to flow off the edges instead of down the middle it shouldn't be a problem. I had a short section done with a paver early in the life of the driveway and it did well also. I think the quality of the materials has a lot to do with the finished product. Good luck!

 

[TractorJeff]

"Crushed" Millings gets the chunks out, gives a uniform material to grade and compact. I wish I was capable of taking photo's of my driveway to show what well compacted Millings looks like. Unloading and Loading Bulldozers on it all the time leaves nary a scratch!
True, the surface erodes over time and will leave dusty sand on wheel chair tires and shoes.
I scrape mine down every couple of years to put a fresh layer down. Yes oil leakage/spills and splashed diesel will make it hard which leads me to believe that a sprayed diesel put down on new virgin millings would dissolve the asphalt enough to rebind.

 

[ngzcaz]

"Crushed" Millings gets the chunks out, gives a uniform material to grade and compact. I wish I was capable of taking photo's of my driveway to show what well compacted Millings looks like. Unloading and Loading Bulldozers on it all the time leaves nary a scratch!
True, the surface erodes over time and will leave dusty sand on wheel chair tires and shoes.
I scrape mine down every couple of years to put a fresh layer down. Yes oil leakage/spills and splashed diesel will make it hard which leads me to believe that a sprayed diesel put down on new virgin millings would dissolve the asphalt enough to rebind.

I've had crushed stone for many years with so so results, mainly from poor prep from the contractor. About 4 or 5 years ago one of the local paving guys came knocking on the door with the same left over material line I've heard many times. This time however, he really was literally down the road doing millings for driveways so I gave him a shot at a circular driveway about 18 ft wide and 40 ft in circumference leading to a 24 by 50 ft driveway to the road. Leveled, weed sprayed, spread with a blacktop machine and thrice compacted was under $ 5K.. Regular blacktop was 3 times that. A few grass spots have to be sprayed every now and then but it generally looks pretty good. If it was all black it would be even better. Little tough to plow snow with out screwing it up but I put skis on the blade of my JD 322 and so far so good. I didn't pay for or expect a perfect blacktop driveway. It's certainly heads and shoulders above what I had before..

 

[FredWanaker]

some experience with this area as this state uses grant money to find ways to reuse recycled crumb rubber mixed in with other things like millings and new material. I think the questions of where he lives, and how well done is the drive way now will be material on how much he might benefit. Might want to get different quotes from more than one contractor. Also, if this is a can I use millings and DIY type issue, I don't think that is going to work. It might be more reasonable to hire a contractor to just put in a narrow runway on the side of the driveway area with a turning pad or pullouts, in several locations, that his son will need to go, rather than do the whole driveway. Sorry about your son.