Milling

[d65]

Hi all I’m d65. Newbie to this group. I am a retired science teacher who wants to learn about milling aluminum and light steel. Small gun parts etc. I’m looking for a mini mill that is 1k or less. Which are best?

Thanks

 

[2oolhound]

Hi and welcome to GJ! Most of us here work on a little larger things and mini mills aren't quite capable of handling the heavier work. Even so we all wish we had a bigger mill than what we've got. Going too small can limit what you can work on down the road and it won't cut deep so you spend more time making more passes. I'm no expert so I'll stop there.

I'll add that once you own a mill you'll spend a lot of money on tooling so it's worth buying the right mill right off the line so your tooling is a long term investment.

Some more knowledgeable folks should chime in shortly. There's lots to it but it's very enjoyable and worthwhile.

 

[IndyGarage]

Yeah if I had $1000 to spend, I would buy something used and get the most tooling with it I could find.

I started out milling on a Smithy machine - which was a better lathe than it was a mill. You could still make stuff on it.

I then bought a chinese benchtop mill. It was a bit disappointing to use. I then found a bridgeport clone - that's when milling became fun.

 

[PugetDude]

If you want a decent hobby machine, look at Grizzly- great company, decent selection but you're probably going to have to bump your budget ~$500 or so.
15" Jet is $2K. HF knockoff is just over half that. Enco/RongFu also offered copies at one point.
Used Bridgeports can be had in the $3K range, but you'll have to deal with 3-phase conversion. Moving them can also get pricey.

Good luck with your search; keep us posted as to what you find.

 

[king nero]

I've got a grizzly clone (sold in europe under the name optimum/quantum).
Very happy with it, good tolerances, good quality movements/table, I've also got quite some accessories over the years. For the larger work, I can use a CNC lathe/mill at a friend's. Does everything I throw at it, within it's capabilities of course.
When yo start, you'll try all kinds of things at first,to get the hang of the machine. Once you're past that phase, work on the machine itself. Good, stable, table, get it properly fixed (without distorting the base), spend some time vertically aligning the column, make sure you can easily align the vise, those kinds of things. SMall time investments, but they'll make your life easier on the long run.

I've also got a table top lathe at home, but I rarely use it, the through hole in the headstock is only 1/2 or so. I bought it when I was 15 or 16, so consider that a beginner's mistake. just a fyi.

 

[f150skidoo]

How much room do you have? could you fit a full size mill? A couple years ago I got rid of my Craftex 7"x20" mini mill (same as Grizzly) because It would be broken almost as much as it was working. I then bought a 9"x42" Bridge port clone that was single phase converted with a full set of ER collets for $1200. The 50 year old machine needed a really good cleaning and new spindle bearings but it works like a champ and everything still works. My mill is roughly 56" x 56" x 84" tall and weighs 2000lbs. If you can fit/move a full size mill I would recommend one over a inexpensive mini mill.

 

[rbgearz]

Check out littlemachineshop.com. I got the 4190 hi torque deluxe mill 2 years ago and love it. I have a full size Bridgeport too but this is really handy for smaller projects. It is a little more than you wanted to spend but it comes with 3 axis DRO. I also got the mini lathe and could not be happier.

 

[lis2323]

I then found a bridgeport clone - that's when milling became fun.

Same[emoji106]

 

[d65]

Thanks for the advise. Please keep it coming. I can the small Grizzly mini delivered for $850. I’d rather have the LMS but it would run me $1200. The grizzly would allow me to by some tooling.

 

[lis2323]

Delete

 

[matt_i]

I'd try to buy good-used from a home-shop person with a tooling package.

I believe that will be your best deal. A new machine is fresh paint but then you will spend quite a few additional $ getting it to where you can make the parts you want.

As the others have said, a full sized machine is easiest and happiest to run. Short of that I'd recommend a machine with a Z-way over a round column. My Dad has made a lot of stuff on a Clausing 8520 which are getting fewer and also older, Grizzly I think has sort of a modern refresh on that concept with an R8 spindle.

Also of importance is that depending on your machine you might also be launched into the electrical and rigging businesses. However its all been done before and many are willing to help you thru those phases.

 

[thejimmy]

Thanks for the advise. Please keep it coming. I can the small Grizzly mini delivered for $850. I’d rather have the LMS but it would run me $1200. The grizzly would allow me to by some tooling.

Take a look at Precision Matthews

 

[IndyGarage]

The problem with the Chinese machine I had is that everything was loose on it, so cuts were not accurate. Of course the gibs were adjustable, but I could never get it right.

I will say it might have been just a cheap machine. The smithy I had was very easy to adjust and I could cut with pretty high precision on it. It just had very limited size capability for the milling function - and the positioning of everything made it a little awkward to work on for milling.

 

[xman_charl]

gear driven 1.5 hp 220 ac

square column mill

bought 2009

yesterday took apart column...greased bearings


sure is handy...

have grizzly G0602 lathe

Charl

 

[lis2323]

I have a gear drive import with a dovetailed column.



And a B’Port clone

 

[d65]

Thanks again. I have looked for used in the Denver area but everting seems to. be $ or more for a bigger machine. I check eBay and Craig’s list

D65

 

[d65]

Also what is the advantage of having CNc or dro.

d65

 

[fordkid88]

Cnc you can model your part and let the machine do the work. Dros are reslly handy for manual work

 

[90roadster]

I would strongly recommend to go with either square column or even better a knee mill. Here is my Enco Knee 6x26 knee mill. In midwest these come up from time to time for 700-2k range.

 

[Robert Haas]

I strongly warn you that the Mill is the least expensive thing you will buy if you go down this path.

I bought an amazing machine for a stupid low price.

It only came with collets and that is it.

Over then next 5 years I have spent nearly 25 grand on tooling, instrumentation and accessories.

The three most important things I bought after the mill itself was a DRO, a Good mill vice and a quality index-able face mill.

Instrumentation that is a must have is a good surface plate and a quality height gauge.

 

[ez-duzit]

Watch for a quality knee mill in excellent condition with comprehensive tooling package. Avoid Chinese machines.

 

[PugetDude]

Take a look at Precision Matthews

Any firsthand experience with PM, thejimmy?
Mixed reviews online; service seems to be hit or miss- sounds like the owner is a one-man band.
Looks to be a G0704 Grizzly clone with a different column/base mount to me. What am I missing for the additional ~15-20% cost? .

 

[HAP]

That RF 45 is a great value especially with DRO installed.

R,
HAP

 

[90roadster]

Any firsthand experience with PM, thejimmy?
Mixed reviews online; service seems to be hit or miss- sounds like the owner is a one-man band.
Looks to be a G0704 Grizzly clone with a different column/base mount to me. What am I missing for the additional ~15-20% cost? .

I believe member zmotorsports is very happy with his PM

 

[thejimmy]

Any firsthand experience with PM, thejimmy?
Mixed reviews online; service seems to be hit or miss- sounds like the owner is a one-man band.
Looks to be a G0704 Grizzly clone with a different column/base mount to me. What am I missing for the additional ~15-20% cost? .

No actual experience, just been looking myself. Thought I'd throw that out and see if anyone had one

 

[d65]

Unfortunately my budget keeps me ini the mini mills. Im thing the Grizzly. That leaves something to buy tooling

 

[ez-duzit]

Unfortunately my budget keeps me ini the mini mills. Im thing the Grizzly. That leaves something to buy tooling

Not true. Buying a brand new, bare machine is absolutely the most expensive way to go.

 

[theoldwizard1]

One of the best beginners mini-machining web sites is littlemachineshop.com. This is not the best organized web site so you have to poke around a lot to find the "nuggets".

The true "table top" mini-mills, will do plastics and aluminum and steel in very, very small cuts. Stay away from drill mills or any mill that does not have fixed column.

You can easily spend 2 or 3 times what you spent on the machine for tooling and fixturing.

 

[matt_i]

Also what is the advantage of having CNc or dro.

d65

Not sure if you got your answer. CNC is computer numerical control. Basically axis are controlled by servos that are sub .001" positioning and can be coordinated to step in a fashion that can easily cut tapers, circles and surfaces. But you have to learn to program it in G-code to tell the machine what to do. You feed the machine a program and it runs the program and hopefully you get what you wanted. Somewhat important to have a CAD program as well. I would personally avoid any CNC retrofit (like a manual Bridgeport converted to 2D CNC) and instead use an OEM setup.

DRO = digital or Direct read Out. Its a measurement system which measures the table position directly instead of relying on the mechanical "lead" of the precision screws on all axes. The screws and their corresponding nut get worn over time and backlash or lost motion develops. You push the backlash in the same direction to eliminate its effect, always approaching a position from the same direction. Its easier to drive to a numerical dimension than counting hash marks on the precision dials. Also you have the benefit of zeroing the DRO in various positions like with your spindle over a "found edge" and then every measurement can be referenced from that edge. Makes life easier and faster than the dials. Make no mistake about the effectiveness of the dials, two world wars were won with that technology. But like any electronics they can potentially get flaky with no repairs possible at times.

 

[d65]

Thank for the replies. Matt-I yours was especially helpful. Now if I had the money

 

[poppinjohnnies]

Here’s my mill. Just bought it a few months ago. I have no idea what I’m doing, but I’m slowly learning. I do know that I’ll be installing a new DRO very soon.


Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[d65]

Now that is the size mill I’d like to have!

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I bought a used RongFu 45 , it had been CNCed and then stripped off. It's an on going project, but so are most of my machines. The RF 45 are the original square column mill/drills. They are Taiwanese made. Taiwan makes some good stuff, but so does mainland China , you just have to pay for it. Precision costs money no matter where it comes from.

The 8" x 32" or there abouts, envelope is a useful size with out taking up too much floor space. 1/3 that of a 10x48 Bridgeport. It has almost paid for itself, but not it's tooling, in a couple of custom projects . I find it handier than a metal lathe. Mills are fun and easy.

If you can afford new, I would recommend that . Because it's pain in the *** to work with clapped out machinery. I'm going to have to learn scraping to get that slack out..

 

[d65]

I’m still looking now think I may buy LMS 3990 high torque mill.

 

[rbgearz]

I’m still looking now think I may buy LMS 3990 high torque mill.

You won't be sorry. Machine is very accurate and with the square column, it's really solid. I bought the automatic feed and installed it on mine. You might want to consider that.

 

[Robert Haas]

These mini mills are cute and sort of useful but for the same price you could land a used J head Bridgy and actually start a lifetime of machining. Honestly every single person I have known over the last several decades that started out with a hobby mill upgraded to a full size unit and complained that they had spent non recoverable funds on tooling and equipment and wished they had started out with a full size machine in the beginning.

As far as not having the room for a knee mill,... that is just crazy talk. a knee mill takes up about the same space as a refrigerator. A little house cleaning in your shop space should free up that footprint.

 

[rbgearz]

I started out with a Bridgeport and a South Bend lathe. Got the smaller ones for smaller parts. Just easier to deal with for smaller parts.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

From hard experience, those clapped out machines are either museum pieces or scrap iron. If they have slop they are highly frustrating as machine tools. Those used deal don't look so good when you factor in Richard King's scraping lessons, straight edges ,surface plate and tools.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Now that is the size mill I’d like to have!

You would be surprised how cheaply you can get a full sized "knee mill" ! Even though they are old (many >50 yo) and some what worn, if you can live with accuracy/repeatably in the 0.005-0.010 range they are still very capable machines.

Again, a good vice, machine clamps/fixturing and tooling can easily cost more than the mill itself.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I bought a used RongFu 45 , it had been CNCed and then stripped off. It's an on going project, but so are most of my machines. The RF 45 are the original square column mill/drills. They are Taiwanese made. Taiwan makes some good stuff, but so does mainland China , you just have to pay for it. Precision costs money no matter where it comes from.

These are very capable mills, if they have not been abused !

Stick with a square fixed column. Spindle or tilt columns will not hold their tramming.