Milwaukee, brushless verses fuel - is there really a difference?

[LXCam]

Howdy folks, I've searched the board but I'll be damned if I can find a discussion about those. In looking at brushed verses brushless, I get it. But in looking between brushless and the fuel models I'm having a hard time with the justification in price. I've been looking at 1/2" drill / impact combo kits at at close to a hundy difference am wondering why I should drop the extra coin.

I'm certain there's got to be a few guys on this board that have both that could set my ignorant *** straight. Also I know the one touch system is bond to be brought up but in all honesty I view that as just something else that's more of a gimmick and will probably take a dump at some point plus I'm just not interested.


Thanks guys!

 

[ezover]

if it cost more it must be better, right? .................. some one else will have to give you the info , I do not have the answer.

 

[77thor]

I don't think that 'brushless' is a gimmick... I believe that the motors will last longer.
But in my opinion, for non-commercial uses, motors with brushes are just fine.

 

[DerekV]

Short answer: yes, there is a difference. If you discount the colors and graphics, one actual perceptible difference on the drills is that the motor is bigger and more powerful on the Fuel. If you don't need the extra power or want to pay the higher price, you have two other options.

Brushed: a good, brushed tool. Baseline model.
Brushless: an economical BL tool identical to the brushed version in size and power. Simply a more efficient baseline model.
Fuel Brushless: the most powerful/robust version of the tool.

Your selection = need + budget

 

[DFB]

Fuel tool motor is much larger overall as is the tool compared to the non fuel brushless and/or it's brushed counterpart. I think the two smaller drills spec about the same too.

According to Milwaukee's adverts there is combination of factors involved besides just the AC motor It includes the electronics package and battery.

They always show that diagram to explain Somewhere in past online have seen a more detailed write up too

 

[LXCam]

Thanks guys. I wasn't aware there was a actual physical size difference between the two brushless motor offerings. But the power difference based on mass makes perfect sense.

I don't think that 'brushless' is a gimmick... I believe that the motors will last longer.
But in my opinion, for non-commercial uses, motors with brushes are just fine.

Just to be clear, it's the one touch feature that to myself comes across as a gimmick.

 

[MikeF2316]

I can't comment on back to back testing as I'm one that's drank the Kool-Aid, and the engineer in me likes the brushless. Check out this post in the addiction thread. The brushes and commutator take up a huge chunk of real estate inside the tool - space that could be used for a bigger motor, or to make the tool smaller.

 

[firebox40dash5]

There's a HUGE performance difference in them. I used my impact driver, impact gun, drill, sawzall amd grinder daily in a shop for several years. The M12 impact driver would go a day or two on a single compact 2ah battery. Ditto the M18 3/8 gun.

I came from Makita LXT... that grinder was the most useless tool I ever owned. Needed an absolutely fresh battery, only lasted maybe 2 minutes of easy use, and the overload kicked it off with anything but the lightest touch to the work.

Got the M18 Fuel grinder... and whoa. It could actually do work, and lasted probably 10-15 minutes of use. Still not ideal, but let's face it, an angle grinder isn't the ideal cordless tool.

 

[LXCam]

I can't comment on back to back testing as I'm one that's drank the Kool-Aid, and the engineer in me likes the brushless. Check out this post in the addiction thread. The brushes and commutator take up a huge chunk of real estate inside the tool - space that could be used for a bigger motor, or to make the tool smaller.

Yup, that's certainly some space eaten up. Thanks Mike

There's a HUGE performance difference in them. I used my impact driver, impact gun, drill, sawzall amd grinder daily in a shop for several years. The M12 impact driver would go a day or two on a single compact 2ah battery. Ditto the M18 3/8 gun.

I came from Makita LXT... that grinder was the most useless tool I ever owned. Needed an absolutely fresh battery, only lasted maybe 2 minutes of easy use, and the overload kicked it off with anything but the lightest touch to the work.

Got the M18 Fuel grinder... and whoa. It could actually do work, and lasted probably 10-15 minutes of use. Still not ideal, but let's face it, an angle grinder isn't the ideal cordless tool.

Thanks FB, luckily for me my days of making a living of stuff like this are gone, I still don't want to **** around when I'm in my shop building something.

 

[Voi]

Also I know the one touch system is bond to be brought up but in all honesty I view that as just something else that's more of a gimmick and will probably take a dump at some point plus I'm just not interested.

I probably wouldn't use One Key much at all but I do think I'd just the self-tapping screw mode of the Fuel impact if I had one. As I recall the non-Fuel brushless has all the speed control in the trigger? The current generation Fuel has four speeds?

The power wouldn't be much of a concern but I do think I'd take advantage of the four position speed control. How much money that would be worth to me is hard to say. Honestly if I were buying Milwaukee I'd probably get the Surge instead of a standard impact driver, for what it is worth.

 

[LXCam]

Well I got tired of searching and ordered the fuel set today. So I guess we'll see what all the hype is about.
M
That's again guys

 

[kctyphoon]

Simple way to find out is just by looking at the torque specs.. but the answer is yes, there is a difference. "Brushless" does not mean more powerful by default, for any brand. Milwaukee's brushless line produce almost the same torque specs as its brushed m18 tools. It MIGHT even be SLIGHTLY less, but I don't remember to be able to swear to that. All you're getting is a new technology driving the tool, and the benefits that come with that design. Fuel is their top tier. It's brushless too, but with different motors and a lot more power. That is the most simple answer.

Fuel will ALWAYS be the stronger tool in Milwaukee's lineup, but that won't ALWAYS mean another company DOESNT have a brushed version just as good. Usually they won't - but I think -- THINK -- Ridgids brushed impact driver actually specs out stronger than the fuel - but that may have changed..

Milwaukee uses very easy to understand torque specs. When in doubt, just go on their site and compare numbers.

 

[jhelrey]

I've heard the Surge isn't that great.

Fuel is more powerful and battery last longer.

 

[kctyphoon]

The surge - I believe - is best for small to medium sized fasteners. It's torque specs are unique.. it has lower impact force, but it sustains the force for a longer duration of time.. think "half drill, half impact".. some guys love it. That's one tool I actually don't own.

It's more of a hit then twist, opposed to a hit, hit, hit action.

 

[2manytools]

I've heard the Surge isn't that great.

Fuel is more powerful and battery last longer.

Love mine. Quieter and smoother driving action. The Fuel may handle larger fasteners a bit better, but the Surge is my first pick 12v or 18v.

 

[Tduby]

I've heard the Surge isn't that great.

Fuel is more powerful and battery last longer.

The surge is awesome it is so quiet and for screws less than 4” faster than a regular impact and the sheet metal screw feature is actually pretty handy. I honestly can’t say about big lag bolts just haven’t done any. But what can not be overstated is how much quieter it is I honestly don’t understand how they are not more popular.

 

[kctyphoon]

And out of the Milwaukee, Ridgid, and Ryobi - the surge looks to easily be the best model of those lots of vibration from the Ridgid it looks like..

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

In addition to the motor, the gear case on my fuel drill is bigger, but I havent looked at the gears inside.

 

[xin]

Brushless better battery life along with better design (where everything is going). The digital board seems like better throttle control as well.

 

[mobiledynamics]

Love my Surge. Per the reply above, have to google it. Was not aware a M12 Surge existed - then again, most of my stuff is M18, aside from Propex and Stickligt

 

[jonesg]

I remember brushless elec motors ,
Keller from Germany 40 yrs ago ,
batteries were sucky nicad ,
its really not new technology.
They were very expensive at $250.

 

[kctyphoon]

They had digitally controlled motors 40 years ago? It's a little more to it than just not having brushes. It's a totally redesigned motor that basically requires a "computer" to run it.