Mini Lathe

[Fluelikesymptoms]

This post isn't really completely serious just for fun and speculation.

I've been watching a lot of videos on lathes and mills as I knew nothing about them and am wierd enough I enjoy learning. I also find it oddly satisfying and relaxing to watch.

I've noticed a few videos from ThisOldTony and some guy timnubby or something like that. They both seem to have a hobby/interest in mini lathes.

Now I'm wanting a mini lathe, someday, and just a bit curious about the thoughts of other GJ members.

Most of the things I see them use a mini lathe for is ironically, well, making upgraded parts for things that failed on another mini lathe lol

Its cool though and most of my spare time I actually get to myself over the last year has gone to learning about electronics and fabrication.

I kind of want one someday just to make some failed experiments and learn. I dont see myself having the additional space any time soon to set up a full scale metal working shop on top of everything else I have going on around here.

So anyone ever have fun cracking open a beer and using their mini lathe? Anyone want to share photos of cool projects they enjoyed using theirs for?

The only thing I can think of it being practical for is making fasteners and gears, which I suppose there is value in that. Any other uses people have found for it?

Thoughts on the quality difference between the different brands?

 

[manwithtools]

Checkout littlemachinshop.com for a pretty good selection of lathes, accessories and tooling. They can be fun little machines and they are great to learn on. You might be surprised the things you end up making on one if you are a tinkerer of fabricator.

Not a lot of difference between brands and half the fun of owning one is making all the owner improvements you read about. It's all about learning something new and going willingly into the deal with informed expectations.

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

Checkout littlemachinshop.com for a pretty good selection of lathes, accessories and tooling. They can be fun little machines and they are great to learn on. You might be surprised the things you end up making on one if you are a tinkerer of fabricator.

Not a lot of difference between brands and half the fun of owning one is making all the owner improvements you read about. It's all about learning something new and going willingly into the deal with informed expectations.

I've heard of littlemachineshop, alot of guys use them to buy new gears for their mini lathes but wheres the fun in that haha

My old shop I worked at had a huge lathe but it only got used for turning rotors, while I was shown how to use her i didnt get a good learning experience from it which is why I'm wanting one to have fun with and learn

 

[manwithtools]

Brake rotor lathe is another beast all together. Lot's of resources to help the learning curve today.

 

[jonesg]

This post isn't really completely serious just for fun and speculation.

I've been watching a lot of videos on lathes and mills as I knew nothing about them and am wierd enough I enjoy learning. I also find it oddly satisfying and relaxing to watch.

I've noticed a few videos from ThisOldTony and some guy timnubby or something like that. They both seem to have a hobby/interest in mini lathes.

Now I'm wanting a mini lathe, someday, and just a bit curious about the thoughts of other GJ members.

Most of the things I see them use a mini lathe for is ironically, well, making upgraded parts for things that failed on another mini lathe lol

Its cool though and most of my spare time I actually get to myself over the last year has gone to learning about electronics and fabrication.

I kind of want one someday just to make some failed experiments and learn. I dont see myself having the additional space any time soon to set up a full scale metal working shop on top of everything else I have going on around here.

So anyone ever have fun cracking open a beer and using their mini lathe? Anyone want to share photos of cool projects they enjoyed using theirs for?

The only thing I can think of it being practical for is making fasteners and gears, which I suppose there is value in that. Any other uses people have found for it?

Thoughts on the quality difference between the different brands?

I have a sherline lathe and mill, small but much more accurate than chinesium imports.
I had a nice old south bend, American iron, from the war dept 1944.
That was nice, power feeds and threading gearbox.
The SB was only $450, sold it 3 years ago, wish I still had it now.
Buy the best you can afford, they hold their value and then some.
Comprehensive tooling such as collets and cutters will easily match the price of the machine and then some so get as much tooling as you can.

I'd keep an eye on craigslist, lot of people need cash these days.

 

[LeeG]

Check out Clickspring on YouTube. He does some amazing stuff with a small lathe.

 

[fartymarty]

Any other uses people have found for it?

Thoughts on the quality difference between the different brands?

I have hardly used mine. Don't get me wrong I love having it there ready to go and it has more tooling than I have remembered skills to use, but I just don't use it very often. The one thing I like about it being small is that it saves room and thus I'm able to have a mini lathe and a mini Mill in the space where a larger size lathe would take all by itself. Embarrassingly I've only used it to make spacers. It seems no matter what little project I come up with the store bought spacers are not the right size and I hate going through vast online catalogs looking for just the right one that will take a week to get here and the shipping costs more than the part and the order form wants to know how many 100s of them I want. It's nice to either just make one or modify one I already have. I have also used it to face off pitted removable faucet seats. That was way easier than fartin' around with a seat cutter on the faucet.
I can't give any comparison advice as the one I have (Micro Mark 7 X 14 with PO mods) is the only mini lathe I've used other than my old late sixties Unimate SL with it's seemingly rubber drill rod ways. I don't recommend the Unimat SL for anything except copper, brass, and aluminum unless of course you have extreme patience and are willing to wait hours to remove steel stock by cutting only a few thousandths at a pass.

You may find this link useful: http://www.mini-lathe.com/Links.htm#Home_Shops

Despite my lack of space and apparently lack of need, I still occasionally fall down the ebay/facebook/craig's list rabbit hole of used full sized lathes especially the South Bends (like I used in High School) and the Monarch 10E types I used in my early years working in a small machine shop. I drool over the vertical mills I see here in peoples shops, but I just don't think I'd use it enough to justify the space. When I look at my two little lathes, it's hard to believe now that I once worked on a Farrell 72" swing lathe at Westinghouse where I used a radio controlled overhead crane to load the parts to be turned.

 

[Craftfab]

Blondihacks is another to check on YT. Lots of information on small hobby sized lathes and milling machines.

 

[Aaron_W]

I disagree that they are all the same, you do get what you pay for. The ubiquitous 7x10, 12,14,16 mini lathe is what most immediately think of but these are also probably the most compromised most being built to a hard price point. Taig and Sherline make higher quality mini lathes (made in USA) roughly the same price as the 7x lathes, but smaller.

The 8x16 and 9x19 lathes are about 2x the price of the 7x lathes and as a result they are built to a higher standard. Somewhat larger / heavier but still very manageable in a small space.

Going vintage you have a variety of small lathes made in the USA, Europe and Taiwan, Atlas / Craftsman 6x18", Southbend, Logan and Atlas 8-10" lathes, Emco Unimat, Compact 5 and Compact 8. Some of the early import clones from the 80s were made in Taiwan and are made to a much higher standard than the cheaper modern made in China import machines. Jet is one of the better known brands but there are a ton of others often with a US sounding importer added brand or a very Chinese sounding name.

The idea that all mini lathes are the same is far from accurate. Little machine shop is one vendor who shows that even lathes coming from the same factory can be different since high quantity buyers can spec out the "same" machine differently. They sell both a generic Seig 7x14 which is basically the same as that sold at Harbor Freight and Grizzly as well as two 7x14 lathes also made by Seig but with spec'd out with larger motors and higher quality parts (at 150% and 200% the price of the cheaper one).

Relative to their size most of these small lathes are quite capable. There is a lot of mis-information that they are only good for plastic and soft metals, but most are quite capable of working steel, stainless steel, titanium etc.

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

Check out Clickspring on YouTube. He does some amazing stuff with a small lathe.

I'll be sure to to check it out thanks

Blondihacks is another to check on YT. Lots of information on small hobby sized lathes and milling machines.

I took a peek at her already, I really like her skill building series while I havent watched yet its on my list, I bet there is a good amount of information to learn there


Good responses guys, still waiting to see what other useful gadgets other GJ members have made themselves. I think one of the most useful things a mini lathe would be useful for is tool making such as a beginners scriber or jacks etc

 

[kellymc]

I use mine all the time, I have the 7x16 but found that there were some projects that couldn't fit on the small lathe so.... I bought a 14x40/

If I were doing it again, I would step up to a 9x19 to begin with, even though it's more up front, it will be cheaper in the long run. Also as stated by Aaron, these are usually better quality. It took a lot of time to dial in the mini, plus buy the time i added DROs etc.. the cost is coming close to a 9x19 setup

 

[Danglerb]

I don't see owning a lathe myself for casual use. I'm not even sure if I would want to use somebody else's lathe casually. In college I took the intro machining class, and learned the safety practices and basic operation of all the shop equipment, but all that info would need a refresh before I turn on the power.

Now if I had the chance to do a fair amount of work on one, different story, I LIKE doing it, and focus required etc.

 

[theoldwizard1]

A mini lathe/mill is less than 50% of you cash out lay !

You'll need a vice, clamps/hold downs and tooling. Don't forget various measuring devices. These can add up to ! Of course, to be really cool, you need a 3 axis DRO !!

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

A mini lathe/mill is less than 50% of you cash out lay !

You'll need a vice, clamps/hold downs and tooling. Don't forget various measuring devices. These can add up to ! Of course, to be really cool, you need a 3 axis DRO !!

The old wizard always dropping in with solid advice haha

What do you guys think about this thing I came across I never knew they made.

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/too...65o9aqrSikz7wd1g5KtYhCTDfIZ1Sb3xoCXRIQAvD_BwE

It has a distance between centers of 19 3/16
Swing over bed of 16 1/2
Swing over saddle of 11 1/2

This seems like an odd size and as someone who doesn't know much correct me if I'm wrong, would that make this lathe 19x16 or 19x11 depending on how you marketed it?

I would imagine that could be a bit tedious to use as an actual mill

I definitely won't be buying this anytime soon as there's just too many other things i actually need i could spend 2k plus tooling on. Curious, what is the quality of shop fox

 

[Aaron_W]

The old wizard always dropping in with solid advice haha

What do you guys think about this thing I came across I never knew they made.

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/too...65o9aqrSikz7wd1g5KtYhCTDfIZ1Sb3xoCXRIQAvD_BwE

It has a distance between centers of 19 3/16
Swing over bed of 16 1/2
Swing over saddle of 11 1/2

This seems like an odd size and as someone who doesn't know much correct me if I'm wrong, would that make this lathe 19x16 or 19x11 depending on how you marketed it?

I would imagine that could be a bit tedious to use as an actual mill

I definitely won't be buying this anytime soon as there's just too many other things i actually need i could spend 2k plus tooling on. Curious, what is the quality of shop fox

In the US lathe swing is measured as diameter over the bed, so that would technically be a 16" swing.

There are all kinds of issues with these 3 in 1 machines vs a stand alone lathe or mill, but they do work and some people are even happy with them.

The biggest issue I've heard from people who have used them is switching between the set up as a lathe and mill.

These tend to have an artificially large swing for the size, because they place the spindle very high compared to a regular lathe. As a result they don't usually have the power or mass of most lathes of a comparable swing. Since they move the center height up a couple inches I'm guessing they are less rigid than a conventional lathe. This one has a 3/4 hp motor and weighs less than 500lbs, a real 16" lathe would likely have 5-10hp and weigh in around 3000lbs.

Other than the artificially high spindle I'm guessing that would compare pretty well to a 9x19 lathe and a mini mill.

So something like this combo

G4000

G0781

Shop Fox is a sub brand of Grizzly.


If you are really interested in a 3 in 1 machine, watch Craigslist, I see them fairly often, usually cheap with little use...

 

[jonesg]

The old wizard always dropping in with solid advice haha

What do you guys think about this thing I came across I never knew they made.

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/too...65o9aqrSikz7wd1g5KtYhCTDfIZ1Sb3xoCXRIQAvD_BwE

It has a distance between centers of 19 3/16
Swing over bed of 16 1/2
Swing over saddle of 11 1/2

This seems like an odd size and as someone who doesn't know much correct me if I'm wrong, would that make this lathe 19x16 or 19x11 depending on how you marketed it?

I would imagine that could be a bit tedious to use as an actual mill

I definitely won't be buying this anytime soon as there's just too many other things i actually need i could spend 2k plus tooling on. Curious, what is the quality of shop fox

You could get a real lathe for that sort of money.
I've seen those combi machines for $700 on craigslist.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Any mill where the head tilts, swivels or rotates is a pain to "tram in" and will have poor repeatability. This might be fine if you are a hobbyist, but walk in with your eye open.

 

[will335i]

It is funny that this post popped up because I just started going down this rabbit hole myself.

I definitely don't need one and I think I could get away with using any of the imports for the little I would do on it.

From what I understand they are all pretty readily up-gradable with better tooling holders, metal gears, motors etc. I would like to know at point are some of these upgrades absolutely a must i.e. for x project you need y upgrade or it flat wont work.

I just want to make sure with what I am wanting to do whatever machine I get works out of the box and then upgrade it as my skill set or interest grows.

 

[fartymarty]

It is funny that this post popped up because I just started going down this rabbit hole myself.

I definitely don't need one and I think I could get away with using any of the imports for the little I would do on it.

From what I understand they are all pretty readily up-gradable with better tooling holders, metal gears, motors etc. I would like to know at point are some of these upgrades absolutely a must i.e. for x project you need y upgrade or it flat wont work.

I just want to make sure with what I am wanting to do whatever machine I get works out of the box and then upgrade it as my skill set or interest grows.

Sometimes if you buy used, not only are you saving money but also the important upgrades have all been done for you. Of course there are things to watch out for as well when buying used. I was lucky, so I don't know what those would be to look out for other than general appearance and perhaps grinding grit all over the ways and weird bearing noises.

 

[Lightning rod]

This is my setup
https://i.imgur.com/LTGFVT2.jpg
I would have liked full size machines but no space
You will be surprised at what can be made on this small machines
I tinker and repair most things for fun, keep my mind active and because i can
All the comments above are true especially the tooling part

 

[matt_i]

Any mill where the head tilts, swivels or rotates is a pain to "tram in" and will have poor repeatability. This might be fine if you are a hobbyist, but walk in with your eye open.

I usually take issue when you post this so here goes once again....

A garden variety bridgeport & all of the millions of clones both nods and swivels the head and its not hard to tram the head = make spindle axis normal to plane of table. There are easy fine adjustment screws and you visualize what is happening with a dial indicator and the tramming bar can literally be something you bent in a vise with a hammer.

A round column mill (no Z-dovetailed way) will lose X-Y position if you loosen the bolts that clamp the head to the column to go higher for drilling or lower for milling. And that's a pain because many many parts need both milling and hole location services, and so that's where I would advise caution...

 

[fartymarty]

A garden variety bridgeport & all of the millions of clones both nods and swivels the head and its not hard to tram the head = make spindle axis normal to plane of table. There are easy fine adjustment screws and you visualize what is happening with a dial indicator and the tramming bar can literally be something you bent in a vise with a hammer.

I was thinking exactly that myself when I read his post, but I didn't follow through like you did.

 

[Aaron_W]

It is funny that this post popped up because I just started going down this rabbit hole myself.

I definitely don't need one and I think I could get away with using any of the imports for the little I would do on it.

From what I understand they are all pretty readily up-gradable with better tooling holders, metal gears, motors etc. I would like to know at point are some of these upgrades absolutely a must i.e. for x project you need y upgrade or it flat wont work.

I just want to make sure with what I am wanting to do whatever machine I get works out of the box and then upgrade it as my skill set or interest grows.

This is one of the big differences between the 7x12 and the upgraded 7x14, 7x16, 8x16 and 9x19 lathes.

The basic 7x12 is bare bones and every corner that can be cut be cut is.

Looking at Grizzly the 7x12 is $725 (Harbor Frieght $699), 7x14 is $875 so it looks like $150 for 2" of extra bed. In reality you get more, the 7x14 has a much better tailstock, and a larger motor (1/3hp vs 3/4hp).

The upgraded Little Machine shop 7x16 lathes are built to a better standard and incude some additional options.


Going up to an 8x16 the price jumps to $1350 an increase of $475 over the 7x14. the obvious you gain 1-1/4" of swing and 2" of length.

You also gain 50% more weight (weight is good on a lathe, it helps to smooth out operations), and a wider bed (3-1/4 vs 4"), don't know that it matters on a lathe this size, but again wider is better.

Two speed ranges low 50-1000 and high 100-2000 (the 7x14 is just 100-2000, the lower range gives you more torque).

The 7x14 can only use up to 5/16" lathe bits, the 8x16 can use up to 3/8" (again not critical on a lathe this size but still an improvement).

The 8x16 has metal gears, the 7x14 uses plastic gears.

The 8x16 comes with a larger 4" 3 jaw chuck vs a 3" chuck on the 7x14.
You also get some tooling not included with the 7x14, a 4" 4 jaw chuck and a follow rest (both come with a steady rest).

For an extra $175 you can get the 8x16 with a factory installed digital read out (DRO) which is not an option on the 7x14. (The Little Machines Shop 7x16 can be bought with a 3 axis DRO).

The extra $475 is easily found in the improvements on the 8x16 lathe.



9x19 vs 8x16 is less clearcut, seemingly only $100 more for another inch of swing and 3" of bed length. In reality where the 7x14 and 8x16 are very similar in function, the 8x16 and 9x19 are very different, and "better" is more of a personal decision.
First on size it is really 8-1/4" vs 8-3/4" on the swing, and 15-3/4" vs 20" on the distance between centers.

The 8x16 (and 7x14) are both gear drive variable speed lathes (turn a dial to set the speed), the 9x19 is a belt drive, so you are limited to 6 preset speeds which require belt changes to set (130-2000rpm vs 50-2000 rpm and 2 speed ranges on the 8x16). Belts are not as handy as variable speed, but belts run quieter so not a clear cut "better" here.

The 8x16 has a reverse, the 9x19 doesn't.

The 9x19 has a threaded spindle, the 8x16 uses a bolt on plate (again personal preference as far as better, bolt on is more secure, threaded more convenient).

The 9x19 can cut 27 SAE threads and 11 metric threads vs 15 and 12 on the 8x16.

The 9x19 weighs 250lbs vs 166lbs, weight is good except when you have to lift it. The 9x19 also has a 4-1/2" wide bed vs 4".

The 9x19 has 4 speed rates for the power feed vs 2 speeds on the 8x16.

The 9x19 has a partial gear box, the 8x16 is entirely reliant on change gears for threading (small advantage to the 9x19, but you will still be doing frequent gear changes if threading).

The 9x19 comes with a 7-1/4" 4 jaw chuck (a total piece of ****, you will want to buy a good one so not a plus in my view).


Despite the working size difference they actually take up a very similar amount of space 20x37 for the 9x19, and 16x36 for the 8x16. The 7x14 at 9x30" is the winner here if space is very tight.


For some people the 8x16 is going to be the better lathe, but if you are a tinkerer, the 9x19 has more potential growth (there are tons of aftermarket and DIY improvements for both machines).


Hope all this typing is worthwhile for somebody.

 

[Aaron_W]

I usually take issue when you post this so here goes once again....

A garden variety bridgeport & all of the millions of clones both nods and swivels the head and its not hard to tram the head = make spindle axis normal to plane of table. There are easy fine adjustment screws and you visualize what is happening with a dial indicator and the tramming bar can literally be something you bent in a vise with a hammer.

A round column mill (no Z-dovetailed way) will lose X-Y position if you loosen the bolts that clamp the head to the column to go higher for drilling or lower for milling. And that's a pain because many many parts need both milling and hole location services, and so that's where I would advise caution...

I had assumed he was referring to the swing away nature of the 3 in 1's milling attachment. From your comment it sounds like this is an ongoing crusade against most of the mills in home shops. The round columns get a lot of negative attention but most of the popular mills tilt, swivel and / or rotate and in fact these are usually considered desirable features.

 

[will335i]

Hope all this typing is worthwhile for somebody.

Aaron, thank you. This was a very well thought out and clearly explained post about the differences and what to look for.

I had kind of come to the conclusion that the 8x16 was where I was headed and this drives it home. Now to watch for deals.

 

[JackOfDiamonds]

I needed a lathe to build bicycle parts including hubs and other misc parts.

I didn't have thousands to spend so I bought a LittleMachineShop 7" lathe and used it a year or two. Eventually I got a deal on a 12x36 lathe and sold the little lathe instantly. In retrospect it was a waste of almost $1000.

What everyone says is true...I would say get the 12x36 or 14x lathe as a minimum. The little lathes really are a waste of time and money. Some people can get their use out of them and I have to admit I did make some parts on the little 7" lathe that worked and are still in service, but it took 2 days to make a part I can make on the big lathe in 2 hours. Your time is worth something even if you are a hobbyist. You will spend more time working on the little lathe and changing the gears and fiddling with it than you will being productive. I hate to say that if you can't afford a bigger lathe, just don't get a lathe, but that's almost the truth.

 

[Aaron_W]

I needed a lathe to build bicycle parts including hubs and other misc parts.

I didn't have thousands to spend so I bought a LittleMachineShop 7" lathe and used it a year or two. Eventually I got a deal on a 12x36 lathe and sold the little lathe instantly. In retrospect it was a waste of almost $1000.

What everyone says is true...I would say get the 12x36 or 14x lathe as a minimum. The little lathes really are a waste of time and money. Some people can get their use out of them and I have to admit I did make some parts on the little 7" lathe that worked and are still in service, but it took 2 days to make a part I can make on the big lathe in 2 hours. Your time is worth something even if you are a hobbyist. You will spend more time working on the little lathe and changing the gears and fiddling with it than you will being productive. I hate to say that if you can't afford a bigger lathe, just don't get a lathe, but that's almost the truth.

It is all about intended use. Are you making clocks and watches or parts for your Sherman tank?

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

It is all about intended use. Are you making clocks and watches or parts for your Sherman tank?

Yes a dedicated lathe for me sherman tank!

 

[Firstram]

I have an original green 7x10 with serial number 184, I think it was machined with a stone adze. I bought it from a friend in 2010 (who bought it used in 1998) with no motor or controller for $100. I have put a lot of time and money in it over the last 10 years modding and tuning it up. I have a 13x40 for the real turning but, the 7x is my go to for small bushings and parts made from delrin or nylon. I'll never get rid of it but I wouldn't wish it on anyone either! Go bigger!

 

[theamcguy]

Lots of good info here Thank you to all posters.

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

Lots of good info here Thank you to all posters.

+1 yea there is alot of good info on this thread but I still want to see pics of those real world practical uses from GJ on the mini lathe.

I understand bigger is better in regards to mini lathes, but still

 

[RoninB4]

No photos of the operation but I mounted the lower fork legs of a motorcycle (ZRX1100)in one of the mini-lathes (7x12 I think) and turned the upper so it was true round (OEM is belt sanded) when I was making a fork brace. The lower legs are too long to fit if using a chuck and tail stock. I had to create special tooling for this. You're only limited by your creativity, patience, and required accuracy. I've even mounted a small pneumatic grinder (pencil grinder for mold polishing) to grind the ID of hardened bushings in mine.

Having said all that I seldom use mine now for much more than second ops, I have a decent German made lathe for almost all work I do now.

What isn't mentioned is the ergonomics and scale of these tiny machines. All components are scaled down and it's a bit difficult to get more than 2 fingers and a thumb on the handles. Using the cross slide at an angle is difficult to get a consistent smooth feed. I have to cramp my hands to fit in the amount of room available for almost all operations and I find this annoying. Changing gears is a PITA for cutting threads, accuracy is always questionable, power is anemic, the Chi-Wan motors are known to burn up, and I consider these as disposable machinery. For second ops like hole chamfer or light polishing they work fine. Buy one lightly used that's been taken care of, they aren't worth the money when brand new. Save money for a used bench-top lathe you can still get parts for that's better quality than the mini Chi-Wan offering from Gri**ly or HF. Once you start using any machinery for occasional projects other uses/projects will appear that you hadn't considered. Don't waste money on any of the multi-purpose machines, they are a compromise at best and a failure at almost all tasks. Tramming the head of a mill is only as important as the accuracy you need, it isn't always a required operation. Toolmaker for 30 years, that's just my opinion.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Any mill where the head tilts, swivels or rotates is a pain to "tram in" and will have poor repeatability. This might be fine if you are a hobbyist, but walk in with your eye open.

Bridgeports have poor repeatability? Same for a $30k TRAC mill?


I get it if you're talking about small, cheap things, but you should specify. A Birdgeport is no big deal to tram and will hold it indefinitely as long as you don't crash. Saying nodding tilting heads are bad makes on sound like on of those European elitists who doesn't believe in quill mills, even though that is by far the most ubiquitous manual mill across the globe.

 

[jfleisher]

You can’t go wrong with Little machine shop.com

You will spend far more on tooling than the machine.

One of my recent projects