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Mini-Split Brands

Crown Imperial

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I am looking into a 12'000 to 15'000 BTU mini split unit. Probably going to buy used since I'd like to install it myself. Do not want anything Chinese although the Home Depot GREE models are very tempting due to price.

Anyone have experience with Fujitsu and/or Mitsubishi mini splits? Any preference for either brand as far as reliability?
 
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Trey T

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Your local Johnstone Supply might carry Daikin or Goodman and it's about $1000 total for indoor and outdoor units w/ a 12K BTU cooling and 15K BTU heating. You can spend a little more and get the flushed ceiling mount indoor unit.

Research Goodman and Daikin.
 
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rlitman

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Both brands are top shelf. You can't do better.
I have a Freidrich, which is clearly made by Fujitsu.
 

JakeKohl

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I'm not sure I understand why you say you need to buy "used". You can purchase a new mini-split yourself and install it yourself with no problem. The only question is if the manufacturer will support the warranty in that case...and in many cases, they will. Check with ACWholesalers.com. I've bought from them and had a really good experience. Even had a replacement part support issue that they handled very quickly.

Because installation of these units is nearly as costly as the units themselves (my time and/or paying someone to install them), I would really stick with a big name brand. A lot of brands are just relabeled versions of another major brand. I would stick with Misubishi, Fujitsu, or LG.

I installed two LG units at home and really like them. I've also had direct experience with the Mitsubishi units and they're a little quieter than the LG units I have (but, seriously, it's the difference between a whisper and a hushed whisper).
 

jad3675

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Johnstone Sells Fujitsu, too. Keep in mind, Fujitsu will not warranty ANY internet purchase...

Tommy

Yeah, but all of the internet stores that sell Fujitsu (ecomfort, greendroplet, younits for instance) extend a warranty that equals what Fujitsu offers.

Do the install yourself, save yourself about 60% - if something breaks and there's no warranty, you still come out ahead.

I was quoted ~10K by two contractors for a 36K ducted minisplit install. I bought the equipment myself from 'The Internet' for 4K, spent about 1K in materials. I still come out ahead even if I have to replace every single component.

John
 

LS6 Tommy

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Yeah, but all of the internet stores that sell Fujitsu (ecomfort, greendroplet, younits for instance) extend a warranty that equals what Fujitsu offers.

John

Thanks, John. Having never bought splits from the net, I wasn't aware of that.

Tommy
 
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Crown Imperial

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Both brands are top shelf. You can't do better.
I have a Freidrich, which is clearly made by Fujitsu.

Are you 100% Freidrich's are made by Fujitsu? Are these two units the same?

Friedrich HM12YJ and Fujitsu 12RLS2

http://www.greendroplet.com/index.p...r-conditioner-25-seer-12-000-btu-1-ton-1.html

http://www.friedrich.com/products/r...lit-systems/wall-mounted/model-specifications


I'm not sure I understand why you say you need to buy "used". You can purchase a new mini-split yourself and install it yourself with no problem. The only question is if the manufacturer will support the warranty in that case...and in many cases, they will. Check with ACWholesalers.com. I've bought from them and had a really good experience. Even had a replacement part support issue that they handled very quickly.

Because installation of these units is nearly as costly as the units themselves (my time and/or paying someone to install them), I would really stick with a big name brand. A lot of brands are just relabeled versions of another major brand. I would stick with Misubishi, Fujitsu, or LG.

I installed two LG units at home and really like them. I've also had direct experience with the Mitsubishi units and they're a little quieter than the LG units I have (but, seriously, it's the difference between a whisper and a hushed whisper).

Reason for buying used is that I can get a 25K BTU inverter Mitsu unit for $500 around Florida while the 12K Fujitsu unit I like costs $1500. Yes, the SEER rating on the Mitsu will only be around 16 while the Fuji is 25 but the price difference makes it very attractive.

Yeah, but all of the internet stores that sell Fujitsu (ecomfort, greendroplet, younits for instance) extend a warranty that equals what Fujitsu offers.

Do the install yourself, save yourself about 60% - if something breaks and there's no warranty, you still come out ahead.

I was quoted ~10K by two contractors for a 36K ducted minisplit install. I bought the equipment myself from 'The Internet' for 4K, spent about 1K in materials. I still come out ahead even if I have to replace every single component.

John

^ This is basically the reason for installing it myself. Even buying a vaccum pum, gauges, and a tank of R410a should come out cheaper than having it installed and I'll have the tools to service all AC units at home for a long time. The vaccum pump and gauges I can even use for the all the vehicle's AC systems we have.
 
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rlitman

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Are you 100% Freidrich's are made by Fujitsu?

Reason for buying used is that I can get a 25K BTU inverter Mitsu unit for $500 around Florida while the 12K Fujitsu unit I like costs $1500. Yes, the SEER rating on the Mitsu will only be around 16 while the Fuji is 25 but the price difference makes it very attractive.

Are these two units the same?The vaccum pump and gauges I can even use for the all the vehicle's AC systems we have.

MY Freidrich is 100% made by Fujitsu. I believe that one is too. The Fujitsu Halcyon is a newer style not offered by Freidrich.

That's a steal on the Mitsu, but the big question is what size do you need. You don't want to oversize an A/C, although a variable speed inverter is more tolerant of oversizing.

Vacuum pump is the same, with some adapters. Gauges are not. R410a pressures are different than R134a pressures. You'll want different gauges.
 

nochina1966

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They're all a pain in the *** to service !, your installation if done right will save you a lot of headaches down the road. In Florida, big problem is algae accumulation and drain clogs, drain hole is about the the diameter of a pencil ! Mitsubishi, it's real easy to drop the drain pan down, but I've had issues with their condenser main control boards, had to replace 3 of them on a 12 system condo install but they may have fixed the problem by now. A few things on your install. Make sure your drain hose fitting is tight and positively drained away into a 3/4" PVC pipe, but it can get bulky back there when you try to mount the head against the wall with the freon lines back there. Second, get rid of the flare fittings and braze the connections. When you mount the head, the flares and copper can flex and create a leak, you need to be almost exact and need a second person to help if you stick with the flared fittings. Do not mount the head too close to the ceiling. You will need to pop the latches on top with a screwdriver to take the shell off for service. Lastly, buy a float switch for the drain pan. Mitsubishi( not sure on the others) have an on-board 2-pin port to hook it up, it's available where Mitsubishi are sold. Buy Nu-clean drain cleaner and treat the pan frequently. I just open the filter cover and pour it over the coils. Also check the plastic blower wheel once every 6 months, they easily accumulate dirt and mildew which can lead to problems, I usually hit it with compressed air. Sorry this was so long, good luck .


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Crown Imperial

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^ Great advice. Thanks much.
Going to have to measure head to ceiling clearance. I don't have that much space above the window I was planning on installing it on. Might need to rethink location now.
 

Idle Serge

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As stated, installation is as costly as the units themselves, therefore; I decided to go with the new DIY innovated product by Freidrich.

I went with the biggest 24000 BTU unit:

http://www.totalhomesupply.com/duct...nditioner-heat-pump-p/friedrich-br1224w3a.htm

Install was a breeze and I'm no expert by any means! This was my 1st experience with any type of mini split and I'm glad I chose this one! It's only been a month but I have no complaints thus far--very quite, both inside and outside units, keeps my 1000sqft home very chilled and has plenty of features.
 

walrus

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Just got my Fujitsu installed, very quiet and cools nicely. I got it for heat though so it will be awhile before I know how that works. I got a 12k unit, maybe I should have gotten a 15k, we'll see. No matter it won't do my whole house anyway, I need another unit downstairs. If I like it I can move this one down and put a bigger unit up stairs.
 
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nochina1966

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Above a window not the best spot. First, if you have a concrete wall, your probably looking at a solid concrete header above it with re-bar reinforcement . You'll have to use a chipping hammer and some big *** bits to get through to run your copper, electrical, and drain lines outside. Wood..no problem, except....you'll have to 90 degree turn everything twice ( since the window is in the way) more work more money in materials. Better to punch out and go straight down the wall. They make a nice powder coated line cover at sheet-metal shops to hide it all.
Worst case scenario, Mitsubishi make a base or free standing floor model, but it may be special order. Go to their web-site or google Mitsubishi Mr Slim.


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TheWhiteMamba

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I got the Frigidaire from Zoro Tools during one of their 30% off deals. No tax, free shipping, $100 Electrician cost (now that I've seen it done, I could easily do it myself), $150 A/C technician cost (I'd still let him do it) I'm all in for a shade over $1k for 18,000btu A/C. I had it about 90% connected on my own in the span of about 4 hours with one trip to the hardware store. Video online is rather straight forward. COO? Not sure but it cools off a halfway insulated attached 3 car garage to 70* and holds it there just fine so I'm happy! Mitsubishis are about 2.5x that for the smallest one without any tech install...
 

Jackfre

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Just got my Fujitsu installed, very quiet and cools nicely. I got it for heat though so it will be awhile before I know how that works. I got a 12k unit, maybe I should have gotten a 15k, we'll see. No matter it won't do my whole house anyway, I need another unit downstairs. If I like it I can move this one down and put a bigger unit up stairs.

I think if you look at the output specs of the 12 & 15 they are very close. You will be hard pressed to notice the diff.

Fujitsu no longer has the deAl with Friedrich. They are now made by Samsung. There may be a lot of remaining inventory however.

I am very nervous about a vendor who says they will supply a warranty service where the factory will not. Perhaps it is just my paranoid nature, but when they have to buy the parts in order to complete your warranty...that puts them upside down on the sale. Maybe they are fine, but!
 

walrus

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I think if you look at the output specs of the 12 & 15 they are very close. You will be hard pressed to notice the diff.

My house is a split level, small, reasonably well insulated and faces south for solar gain. The upstairs where this is located is essentially one room, cathedral ceiling with loft. Its where we live for the most part. . I'm going to see what this does down to 15-20 degrees and then my real heat is a woodstove or oil. Didn't want to size too big
 
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Crown Imperial

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Well, I found an impromptu deal on Craigslist yesterday and went for it.
11,200 BTU Friedrich unit. 110V with inverter. Only 21.5 SEER but for $350 NEW I can't complain. Had to drive about 3 hours in total to get it due to current rains here in SEFL. The guy even included 30' of insulated copper tubing and a service valve. Didn't even negotiate price.

http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/app/4513592398.html

As far as the unit, it's made in China which is a let down. Not what I wanted but meh. Some of the Mitsu and Fujitsu units might be made in China too.





Not a lot of clearance above the window for the evaporator unit. Unfortunately this is really the only space I have to install it in. It's a small, low ceiling garage. I might need to figure something out for easy access for future service before I install it. I'll think this through when I have time and see what I come up with.







 
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Jackfre

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You did well. AFAIK, Friedrich units ARE Fujitsu's...

Tommy

Freidrich units WERE Fujitsu. Fujitsu ended that deal for '14. I worked with them and saw them at the ASHRAE show in NY and was told that by the VP of Sales. Again, there is likely plenty of the Fried/Fujitsu inventory in the channel.
 

Gerald O

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CFM isn't too important for a small system like this. More important is that it needs to be able to pull a high enough vacuum--at a minimum what is specified by the installation manual.
 

jad3675

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Since we are at it.
Any recommendations on vacuum pumps?
Is a 4 CFM good enough or should I spend a bit more and get a 6 CFM? The price difference between the 4 and 6 CFM is only like 20 bucks.
These CPS pumps are apparently U.S. made.

http://www.cpsproducts.com/product/vacuum-premium-pumps-6cfm-vp6s/
Anyone have any experience with them?

I was going to recommend the HF two stage pump...but I see that the CPS pump can be had for about $120 online. CFMs don't make much of a dif on small systems. You'd be better off buying a two stage pump with less CFM.

John
 
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Crown Imperial

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Yes, 2 stage seems to be the way to go with something like 50 micron rating.

I am learning some interesting stuff on vacuum pumps right now. Apparently with a micron gauge (thermistor vacuum gauge) instead of a manifold gauge you can not only detects leaks but also determine how well the vacuum pump is working. It appears these gauges go for about $100-$200. Hmmm. Not sure if worth the investment?


http://www.aircondition.com/tech/questions/80/Micron-Rating-of-a-Vacuum-Pump

http://www.robinair.com/acsolutions/acvacuum/acvacuum.php
 
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jad3675

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Yes, 2 stage seems to be the way to go with something like 50 micron rating.

I am learning some interesting stuff on vacuum pumps right now. Apparently with a micron gauge (thermistor vacuum gauge) instead of a manifold gauge you can not only detects leaks but also determine how well the vacuum pump is working. It appears these gauges go for about $100-$200. Hmmm. Not sure if worth the investment?


http://www.aircondition.com/tech/questions/80/Micron-Rating-of-a-Vacuum-Pump

http://www.robinair.com/acsolutions/acvacuum/acvacuum.php

I highly recommend using a micron gauge when doing a MS install.

John
 

nochina1966

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With 410-A refrigerant, moisture is the enemy. It's a small enough job that you don't need a 6 cfm pump, as long as you get your line set hooked up quickly and don't leave them open for a few days, you should be fine. Unless you're in a trade where you will be using it a lot, it might be cheaper to rent one. FYI, Fujitsus that I've worked on need a special adaptor for your manifold gauges. May be different now. Micron gauge excellent idea. It will let you know if the system is tight very quickly. Important that you make sure your manifold gauge hoses/connections etc are tight.


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LS6 Tommy

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More bad info being passed around. You CANNOT accurately use vacuum to leak check, micron gauge or not. The vacuum car and will hold leaks shut. Also, a micron gauge is not supposed to be used with hoses. It's supposed to be hard piped with flare connections in conjunction with the manifold gauges. If you really want to go nuts you can use direct connecting gauges on flare tees.

Tommy
 
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nochina1966

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More bad info being passed around. You CANNOT accurately use vacuum to leak check, micron gauge or not. The vacuum car and will hold leaks shut. Also, a micron gauge is not supposed to be used with hoses. It's supposed to be hard piped with flare connections in conjunction with the manifold gauges. If you really want to go nuts you can use direct connecting gauges on flare tees.

Tommy


Would love to know how a vacuum can and will hold a leak shut ?


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truckman5000

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Would love to know how a vacuum can and will hold a leak shut ?


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doesn't
listen to a vacuum pump with a leak and the same pump without a leak. you can here the difference.
A micron gauge is for amateurs, unless you know the lines are exposed to elements and whatever.
A line set comes charged with nitrogen. You can purge the line through. Like a brake line and be fine.
Anyone with a micron gauge, doing there own jobs. Will after a month know what the ### are with there vacuum pump. Without using a gauge.
 

nochina1966

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doesn't

listen to a vacuum pump with a leak and the same pump without a leak. you can here the difference.

A micron gauge is for amateurs, unless you know the lines are exposed to elements and whatever.

A line set comes charged with nitrogen. You can purge the line through. Like a brake line and be fine.

Anyone with a micron gauge, doing there own jobs. Will after a month know what the ### are with there vacuum pump. Without using a gauge.


Guess I'm mis-interpreting the message. If I assume my vacuum pump is tight as well as my gauges, it will quickly tell me if I have a leak in a brazed connection by losing the vacuum pretty quickly after valving off ? I usually pressurize with nitrogen first, but wouldn't you see a much faster drop from a small pin-hole leak with a micron gauge, rather than say 100 psi of dry-charge nitrogen?.


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zmaxmotorsports

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More bad info being passed around. You CANNOT accurately use vacuum to leak check, micron gauge or not. The vacuum car and will hold leaks shut. Also, a micron gauge is not supposed to be used with hoses. It's supposed to be hard piped with flare connections in conjunction with the manifold gauges. If you really want to go nuts you can use direct connecting gauges on flare tees.

Tommy
Ive seen plenty of leaks that would hold a vacuam over the years,a little flux gets sucked into the hole and it will hold till you put pressure on the system.
That's why I always pressure test with nitrogen first!:beer:
 
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