Mini Split Cabin Recommendation

[Buckaroo5]

I plan on installing a mini split by next spring at my remote cabin in SE Ohio. It's about 860 sq ft on the first floor which has the MBR, bathroom, utility room and a living/dining/kitchen area with a half story above having 2 bedrooms. It is D-Log construction without wall insulation but the roof is insulated. The windows are single pane Anderson's which are pretty well sealed. I have 200 amp electrical service and use baseboard heating to maintain 55F or so during the winter (living/dining/kitchen/bathroom/utility room area) to keep things from freezing up when I'm not there - not cheap. I have a wood stove to heat the whole place when I'm there in the winter and use the baseboard heating sparingly to take the edge off until the wood stove fires up. I do drain the water system when it's cold when I'm not there and use RV antifreeze in the toilet/traps as well. I currently have a 12,000 BTU window AC unit in one of the upstairs bedrooms.

I am considering installing a 24,000 BTU two zone mini split to provide heat and AC. One head unit to be installed down stairs in the living/dining/kitchen room (18,000 BTU?) and a knee unit in the upstairs bedroom directly above (9,000 BTU?), the one without the window AC, and also is the only room without baseboard heat. Would leave the baseboard heating in place but don't plan to run it regularly. I plan to see how the heat/AC distribution works and may install another mini split down the road on the other side of the cabin with a head unit in the MBR and other upstairs bedroom.

I plan on doing the install myself. I do auto AC work so have all those tools/understanding. What suggestions do you have for me? Recommendations on sizing, brands and models? Particularly interested in whether to purchase package system or buy the components individually. Not many of the packages include a knee unit.

Thanks!

 

[fitter30]

Since the loft has separate bedrooms both will need there own head unit. What in the btu of the window ac? Does it take care of room to your satisfaction? What kw is your total baseboard? Might also consider a hyper heat mini. Knee unit a floor unit?

 

[ratflinger]

Single point of failure - install 2 separate units. Maybe 12k & 9k.

 

[Dig Doug]

What temperature ranges do you see

winter
&
summer

There are some mini splits that have WiFi

You might need a cold weather unit depending on your temperatures

 

[jack stand]

Single point of failure - install 2 separate units. Maybe 12k & 9k.

A m/s only company told me ^^^^ that the efficiency is better also.

 

[Buckaroo5]

Since the loft has separate bedrooms both will need there own head unit. What in the btu of the window ac? Does it take care of room to your satisfaction? What kw is your total baseboard? Might also consider a hyper heat mini. Knee unit a floor unit?

The current window unit in the upstairs bedroom is 12,000 BTU and it is plenty to keep that room cold. The baseboard heaters I run when I'm not there are 3,000 watts. I close off the bedrooms and set the temp at 50F or so. The upstairs ceiling slopes severely from the peak so the sidewalls are only about 3 ft high. That is where I want to install the knee unit/floor unit.

 

[Buckaroo5]

What temperature ranges do you see

winter
&
summer

There are some mini splits that have WiFi

You might need a cold weather unit depending on your temperatures

Outside temps can get from -20F to 100F but normal range is 0F to 95F. I definitely want WIFI so I can adjust it from home. I was thinking that I would need a cold weather unit (hyper heat?) although I can supplement with the baseboards. They are not WIFI controlled, however.

 

[Buckaroo5]

Single point of failure - install 2 separate units. Maybe 12k & 9k.

I will look at the cost premium for that. For a two zone unit, I was assuming you could shut down the upstairs zone and just run the downstairs?

 

[fitter30]

3000 watts = 10,230 btu's
1 watt = 3.41 btu
Any heat pump including some hyper heat lose btu capacity in heat the colder the outside temp gets. Check with the manufacturer if the sales person doesn't have that info.

 

[Mismail]

I plan on installing a mini split by next spring at my remote cabin in SE Ohio. It's about 860 sq ft on the first floor which has the MBR, bathroom, utility room and a living/dining/kitchen area with a half story above having 2 bedrooms. It is D-Log construction without wall insulation but the roof is insulated. The windows are single pane Anderson's which are pretty well sealed. I have 200 amp electrical service and use baseboard heating to maintain 55F or so during the winter (living/dining/kitchen/bathroom/utility room area) to keep things from freezing up when I'm not there - not cheap. I have a wood stove to heat the whole place when I'm there in the winter and use the baseboard heating sparingly to take the edge off until the wood stove fires up. I do drain the water system when it's cold when I'm not there and use RV antifreeze in the toilet/traps as well. I currently have a 12,000 BTU window AC unit in one of the upstairs bedrooms.

I am considering installing a 24,000 BTU two zone mini split to provide heat and AC. One head unit to be installed down stairs in the living/dining/kitchen room (18,000 BTU?) and a knee unit in the upstairs bedroom directly above (9,000 BTU?), the one without the window AC, and also is the only room without baseboard heat. Would leave the baseboard heating in place but don't plan to run it regularly. I plan to see how the heat/AC distribution works and may install another mini split down the road on the other side of the cabin with a head unit in the MBR and other upstairs bedroom.

I plan on doing the install myself. I do auto AC work so have all those tools/understanding. What suggestions do you have for me? Recommendations on sizing, brands and models? Particularly interested in whether to purchase package system or buy the components individually. Not many of the packages include a knee unit.

Thanks!

For your cabin's mini-split, consider upsizing the BTU slightly due to the lack of wall insulation and single-pane windows, and prioritize a cold-climate "hyper-heat" brand like Mitsubishi or Fujitsu for reliable winter heating. You will likely need to buy the condenser and indoor heads separately to get the specific "knee unit" you want, as packaged systems rarely include them.

 

[ericm]

I will look at the cost premium for that. For a two zone unit, I was assuming you could shut down the upstairs zone and just run the downstairs?

Yes. You can turn off one head on a multi head unit. A multi head setup can cost more than two separate single head units.

 

[dcg9381]

I plan on doing the install myself. I do auto AC work so have all those tools/understanding.

You will be fine, assuming you're capable of adding circuits to AC power. Line set is length is the critical part to me. Plan it out.

What suggestions do you have for me? Recommendations on sizing, brands and models? Particularly interested in whether to purchase package system or buy the components individually. Not many of the packages include a knee unit.

Thanks!

I went with Daikin.
Really, it's a toss up. The "consumer" units (Mr. Cool) will have "consumer" warranties. Anything else will likely require a service call from an "authorized" HVAC guy if they have a warranty issue. I've installed both, not much difference.

I agree with other to consider 2 units over the price of a dual head 24k.

You will need a "cool weather" rated unit for sure... 100%

 

[afinepoint]

I plan on installing a mini split by next spring at my remote cabin in SE Ohio. It's about 860 sq ft on the first floor which has the MBR, bathroom, utility room and a living/dining/kitchen area with a half story above having 2 bedrooms. It is D-Log construction without wall insulation but the roof is insulated. The windows are single pane Anderson's which are pretty well sealed. I have 200 amp electrical service and use baseboard heating to maintain 55F or so during the winter (living/dining/kitchen/bathroom/utility room area) to keep things from freezing up when I'm not there - not cheap. I have a wood stove to heat the whole place when I'm there in the winter and use the baseboard heating sparingly to take the edge off until the wood stove fires up. I do drain the water system when it's cold when I'm not there and use RV antifreeze in the toilet/traps as well. I currently have a 12,000 BTU window AC unit in one of the upstairs bedrooms.

I am considering installing a 24,000 BTU two zone mini split to provide heat and AC. One head unit to be installed down stairs in the living/dining/kitchen room (18,000 BTU?) and a knee unit in the upstairs bedroom directly above (9,000 BTU?), the one without the window AC, and also is the only room without baseboard heat. Would leave the baseboard heating in place but don't plan to run it regularly. I plan to see how the heat/AC distribution works and may install another mini split down the road on the other side of the cabin with a head unit in the MBR and other upstairs bedroom.

I plan on doing the install myself. I do auto AC work so have all those tools/understanding. What suggestions do you have for me? Recommendations on sizing, brands and models? Particularly interested in whether to purchase package system or buy the components individually. Not many of the packages include a knee unit.

Thanks!

The company that replaced our central air/ furnace recommended Samsung, L.G., Mitsubishi and Diakin. The technician said stay away from Pioneer. I second that. A mechanical engineer friend put one in a detached 3 car garage and later regretted it.

I want to install a Mitsubishi in my garage but a licensed installer must do it or no warranty.

 

[Notgrownup]

Nowadays any brand is a crapshoot. I would rather have 2 smaller units .

 

[Buckaroo5]

The company that replaced our central air/ furnace recommended Samsung, L.G., Mitsubishi and Diakin. The technician said stay away from Pioneer. I second that. A mechanical engineer friend put one in a detached 3 car garage and later regretted it.

I want to install a Mitsubishi in my garage but a licensed installer must do it or no warranty.

I have looked at Pioneer - what specific issues have you seen/heard of?

 

[theoldwizard1]

... I use baseboard heating to maintain 55F or so during the winter (living/dining/kitchen/bathroom/utility room area) to keep things from freezing up when I'm not there - not cheap. I have a wood stove to heat the whole place when I'm there in the winter and use the baseboard heating sparingly to take the edge off until the wood stove fires up. I do drain the water system when it's cold when I'm not there and use RV antifreeze in the toilet/traps as well.

If you drain the plumbing and use RV antifreeze, why are you still running the heat ?

Dad had a place "up north MI". We did no use it often in winter, so the plumbing was drained. I remember flushing the toilet with a bucket of water from a free running spring ! It would take 8+ hours to get the place "comfortable" from close to 0F !

Single point of failure - install 2 separate units. Maybe 12k & 9k.

Mini splits with more than one air handler tend to be less efficient !

 

[theoldwizard1]

3000 watts = 10,230 btu's
1 watt = 3.41 btu
Any heat pump including some hyper heat lose btu capacity in heat the colder the outside temp gets. Check with the manufacturer if the sales person doesn't have that info.

True, but ...

Different manufacturers report that data differently ! Difficult to do comparisons.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The company that replaced our central air/ furnace recommended Samsung, L.G., Mitsubishi and Diakin.

Last time I did any research, it seemed like Mitsubishi and Fujitsu sold the most. At that time, neither would warranty a "DIY install" !

 

[Mikes61]

I’m following this thread, in need of a mini split soon too.

 

[dscheidt]

3000 watts = 10,230 btu's
1 watt = 3.41 btu
Any heat pump including some hyper heat lose btu capacity in heat the colder the outside temp gets. Check with the manufacturer if the sales person doesn't have that info.

There's certainly a loss of efficiency, but most manufacturers specify the lowest temperature at which they can output the claimed capacity.
Design around those numbers. Above that temperature, they have higher potential output, which may, or may not, actually be usable. (the machine's software can limit it.) Below that temperature, they may still produce heat, or they may not.

 

[Buckaroo5]

If you drain the plumbing and use RV antifreeze, why are you still running the heat ?

I drain the cabin plumbing but the line from the cistern to the pump (which goes through the crawl space under the cabin and up into the utility room) is not drained. Also, I don't drain the pump itself which is in the utility room. Finally, I do use the cabin when weather permits during the winter so the 8 hour warm up would be annoying.

 

[afinepoint]

I have looked at Pioneer - what specific issues have you seen/heard of?

The tech didn't elaborate. Just gave a list and Pioneer was the only one not recommended. He was clear about that. As for my engineer friend he said: Poor quality and multiple leaks.

That was years ago so perhaps things have changed. But in this world of "price points" and make it cheaper than the next guy I doubt it. There are plenty of other choices.

 

[afinepoint]

Last time I did any research, it seemed like Mitsubishi and Fujitsu sold the most. At that time, neither would warranty a "DIY install" !

I contacted Mitsubishi today. They are clear on if not installed by a licensed tech then No Warranty. EPA 608 won't cut it. I guess they (and other companies) are not impressed by a multiple choice test with unlimited tries to pass.

 

[Buckaroo5]

I am edging up on my mini-split purchase for my cabin install this summer. I decided to buy a 24,000 BTU single zone system and install it downstairs, evaluate it and then likely proceed with another single zone system upstairs next summer. I am looking at the Blueridge systems from Alpine - I think they are Gree manufactured? Not the best but good enough?

Some questions -
1. I am thinking I want a new R-454B unit although they have discounted R-410A units because why? Future parts?
2. They sell DIY units with pre-vacuumed quick disconnect line sets (only difference?). They have another one that requires you to do some flaring/brazing and the difference is about $400. I have an oxy/acetylene set up and likely could figure out the brazing. Also have a vacuum pump for auto work but might need adapters. The flaring set I have is cheap so might have to upgrade. Should I just do the DIY?
3. They sell a package with line set and other stuff. Should I buy that or buy separately?
4. The sell a dongle for $60 to attach to WIFI but would I be better buying a wired WIFI capable thermostat? Would I want their offering or maybe a third party (i.e. Honeywell)?
5. I have attached the specs for the non-DIY unit and the DIY unit with the 15ft kit. The non-DIY seems better but I bet they are the same unit. Comments on specs?

 

[dscheidt]

You sound capable of installing the nondiy. It’s pretty easy, and any tools you have to buy will get used at least once more.

 

[finn]

We installed a Mitsubishi three head unit in our cabin probably fifteen or more years ago. The layout sounds similar to the op’s with knee walls in the upstairs room. We were able to squeeze the indoor head above the window on the gable und upstairs.

Hyper heat was pretty new at that time and a big dollar hit, plus our dealer was uncomfortable selling us the Hyper as it had no track record.

Flash forward ten years and we moved full time to the “cabin”, and added a new kitchen and walk out basement room as a den. The same dealer was comfortable with the hypers by then, and recommended two hypers, one for the kitchen and one for the lower level daylight den room. The cost was about the same for two singles as for a dual head unit, but the efficiency was much higher with a single head unit than with multiple heads.

We ended up only getting the lower level hyper, and use it for heat in the cold weather and just as a dehumidifier in warm weather. There’s enough circulation from the great room to make a separate kitchen unit a low priority.

We still have baseboard radiators for spot heating, and to insure the basement never freezes. I also installed a propane boiler with staple up pex as the primary heat source. It’s cheaper than a heat pump given our outrageous electric rates.

As to why not just turn the heat off for the winter when we’re not there, btdt, and got burned twice.

Nothing like arriving at 2:00 am to a busted pump housing or a blown off brass faucet. I learned my lesson, after the second fiasco.

 

[pembol]

I am edging up on my mini-split purchase for my cabin install this summer. I decided to buy a 24,000 BTU single zone system and install it downstairs, evaluate it and then likely proceed with another single zone system upstairs next summer. I am looking at the Blueridge systems from Alpine - I think they are Gree manufactured? Not the best but good enough?

Some questions -
1. I am thinking I want a new R-454B unit although they have discounted R-410A units because why? Future parts?
2. They sell DIY units with pre-vacuumed quick disconnect line sets (only difference?). They have another one that requires you to do some flaring/brazing and the difference is about $400. I have an oxy/acetylene set up and likely could figure out the brazing. Also have a vacuum pump for auto work but might need adapters. The flaring set I have is cheap so might have to upgrade. Should I just do the DIY?
3. They sell a package with line set and other stuff. Should I buy that or buy separately?
4. The sell a dongle for $60 to attach to WIFI but would I be better buying a wired WIFI capable thermostat? Would I want their offering or maybe a third party (i.e. Honeywell)?
5. I have attached the specs for the non-DIY unit and the DIY unit with the 15ft kit. The non-DIY seems better but I bet they are the same unit. Comments on specs?

I just installed the Blueridge S5 24kBTU unit a few months ago - so far it has been working well, albeit we haven't had much really cold weather yet. Almost all the 'DIY' units have worse cold weather performance than the non-DIY units and are typically more expensive. Based on the specs you posted, this appears to be the case here too - at 5F the DIY unit has an output of 15900 BTU with a COP of 2.0 whereas the non-DIY is 19600 BTU with a COP of 2.54. The tools needed to do the install are about $250 on Amazon if you forego the pressure test. I think this is generally OK to skip, but you want to do an extended (> 12 hours) vacuum test, and bubble leak test to be absolutely sure you have no leaks in your fittings.

 

[Buckaroo5]

I just installed the Blueridge S5 24kBTU unit a few months ago - so far it has been working well, albeit we haven't had much really cold weather yet. Almost all the 'DIY' units have worse cold weather performance than the non-DIY units and are typically more expensive. Based on the specs you posted, this appears to be the case here too - at 5F the DIY unit has an output of 15900 BTU with a COP of 2.0 whereas the non-DIY is 19600 BTU with a COP of 2.54. The tools needed to do the install are about $250 on Amazon if you forego the pressure test. I think this is generally OK to skip, but you want to do an extended (> 12 hours) vacuum test, and bubble leak test to be absolutely sure you have no leaks in your fittings.

I don't understand the Blueridge model numbering system. Which are the S5? I have read the folks believe they are the same as the Gree Saphire model. Please educate me.

 

[pembol]

I bought mine about a year ago and it was sold as the 'S5', and I can confirm that it is a Gree Sapphire. I bought it as it seemed to have the best cold weather specs of any of the direct to consumer models at the time. It looks like they are now selling the 'XS5', which I would assume is the latest Gree Sapphire, but you would want to confirm that.

Blueridge BXS5A24UC0-24WM 24,000 BTU (2 Ton) 1-Zone 21 SEER2 Inverter R-454B XS5 Heat Pump Ultra Cool/Ultra Heat System

www.alpinehomeair.com

 

[Buckaroo5]

OK - I see it now. They have the various models classed by ability to provide heating, XS1 to XS5.

Would you call the XS5 a "hyper heat" model because it's ambient temperature range for heating goes down to -22F? Alpine calls it an "All Climate +".

 

[dscheidt]

OK - I see it now. They have the various models classed by ability to provide heating, XS1 to XS5.

Would you call the XS5 a "hyper heat" model because it's ambient temperature range for heating goes down to -22F? Alpine calls it an "All Climate +".

'Hyper heat' is someone (fujitsu? Mitsubishi?) trademark for low temp performance. Everyone else calls it something else. heat down to -22F certainly qualifies, though, whatever brand.

 

[pembol]

OK - I see it now. They have the various models classed by ability to provide heating, XS1 to XS5.

Would you call the XS5 a "hyper heat" model because it's ambient temperature range for heating goes down to -22F? Alpine calls it an "All Climate +".

The 'tell' for who actually makes the unit and the model is usually the remote. The heads and compressors all look about the same, but the remotes seem to be pretty specific to individual models.

 

[Buckaroo5]

I bought mine about a year ago and it was sold as the 'S5', and I can confirm that it is a Gree Sapphire. I bought it as it seemed to have the best cold weather specs of any of the direct to consumer models at the time. It looks like they are now selling the 'XS5', which I would assume is the latest Gree Sapphire, but you would want to confirm that.

Blueridge BXS5A24UC0-24WM 24,000 BTU (2 Ton) 1-Zone 21 SEER2 Inverter R-454B XS5 Heat Pump Ultra Cool/Ultra Heat System

www.alpinehomeair.com

Pembol said to look at the remotes so I think this is a Senville unit - specs appear to be the same as this unit which costs $1700 from Senville (and includes a 16' install kit) vs $2539 from Alpine with no install kit. Have not looked at shipping cost yet (Edit: Free Shipping) but seems like Senville purchase is the way to go. Am I missing something?

24000 BTU Mini Split Air Conditioner - Heat Pump - SENA/24HF

Senville's 24000 BTU Mini Split Air Conditioner & Heat Pump is ENERGY STAR Certified, offering energy savings and advanced features. Ideal for cooling and heating large spaces efficiently.

senville.com

 

[pembol]

Doing a google image search on that remote suggests it is actually manufactured by Midea. I don't see why you shouldn't buy it from Senville or which ever company is selling cheapest - it is probably sold by others with different labeling.

 

[red]

If you drain the plumbing and use RV antifreeze, why are you still running the heat ?

Dad had a place "up north MI". We did no use it often in winter, so the plumbing was drained. I remember flushing the toilet with a bucket of water from a free running spring ! It would take 8+ hours to get the place "comfortable" from close to 0F !


Mini splits with more than one air handler tend to be less efficient !

"If you drain the plumbing and use RV antifreeze, why are you still running the heat ?"
Cause it keeps the sheetrock from cracking and reduces moisture inside an unoccupied building. (ie mold)

"Mini splits with more than one air handler tend to be less efficient !"
Agree 100% and besides being less expensive, if or when one of the units decides to quit working on you, you'll still have heat or A/C from the other unit. Which means a lot less pressure on you when you're away.

 

[Buckaroo5]

Doing a google image search on that remote suggests it is actually manufactured by Midea. I don't see why you shouldn't buy it from Senville or which ever company is selling cheapest - it is probably sold by others with different labeling.

I also did the google image search to find the Senville and yes, the remote looks the same on the Midea. I see that both Gree and Midea manufacture for Senville and apparently also for Alpine/Blueridge. I could not find the detailed specs on the Midea badged unit to compare, only some general specs.