Mini-split ceiling cassette?

[bullnerd]

Anyone use one?

Why is there such a jump in price from wall mount to ceiling mount? Like $7-800?

I was told to put the wall mount near my two OH doors but that is not ideal because the two sides will be a walkway/and or driveway. So the only spot really is at the opposite end from the two doors.

I was wondering if the ceiling mount would solve the problem of more evenly distributing the air throughout the shop.

Just thinking about it.

Any advice is appreciated as always.

 

[Jackfre]

How big a unit? Ceiling cassette or suspended? You can put the condensing unit on the opposite side of the building if you want depending upon the make model and specs of the particular unit. high wall units probably outnumber ceiling units 50-1, hence the cost differential. Also they are more frequently done in commercial.

 

[DEnd]

Why can't you put it by the OH doors? The wall mount, mounts inside your shop not outside. You might need to be a bit careful with your lines, but even then you should have enough line length to put the outdoor unit where it needs to be.

As for the price jump they likely sell a lot more wall mount cassettes than they do ceiling mount, as well as being a bit more simple to build.

 

[miketyler]

I'm in middle of a cassette install for the very reason you suggest. My loft is a long open space with open stairway at one end. A centrally located AC source just makes sense.

I think they would be more expensive because there are more parts involved. The Mitsubishi I am installing has four stepper motors that independently actuate each of the four vanes. Maybe cheaper models have manual adjust vanes. I might guess wall units have a single vane for directing air? There is no doubt the wall mount is an easier install, few will opt for the more complex cassette install.

Regardless of which unit or location you pick I would suggest if you do all you can to insulate and seal any air leaks around the doors.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I hate cassettes. Don't care how much they cost...

Tommy

 

[Highbeam]

Look like RV trailer AC units. The wall units are ugly enough.

 

[bullnerd]

Ok, I wasn't very clear with that description sorry. I have a 30x40x10 pole building with 2 OH doors on one 30' end and a second on one 40' side.(pics in my sig) The problems, where to place the condenser with a wall mount. I can put everything in the back, no problem with mounting everything, but that's where my wood tools are going, all along the back 30' wall, and opposite from the 2 big doors which is not ideal. Not a BIG deal but, not ideal. The front is parking and doors, not good for the condenser. One side is going to be a full length sidewalk and the other long side is a driveway. So, if I mount a wall unit between the doors, I would have to run the lines the full 40' plus 10' up to the attic, plus down to whatever height I place it on the wall. The unit im looking at comes with 25 or 50' lines. Not positive on the line lengths.

So...I was thinking of a ceiling mounted cassette, kinda solves a few problems. Away from the wood dust(that's kinda big from what ive read), more central to the room,(can mount dead center) lines would reach without too much drama. Can mount the condenser out back out of harms way and where it wouldn't be heard.

So, is it as obvious as it seems that this is better?
Is having the source in the center "much" better than at one end?

I could deal with the cost difference if I know Im doing the right thing.

For those that say they don't like them, why?
Cosmetically its a no brainer, all you'll see is a grill.

Look like RV trailer AC units. The wall units are ugly enough.

Have you seen them? I don't get this comment. It will be completely concealed in the ceiling.

Oh and the size is 30000btu heat, 27000 btu cool. I think.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

A casette in a room that size will never move enough air to make you happy.

Tommy

 

[bullnerd]

A casette in a room that size will never move enough air to make you happy.

Tommy

So you suggest sticking with a wall mount? They move more air?

BTW, the cassette Im looking at has two extra ports to feed two more ceiling vents. That seems kinda handy also?

 

[bullnerd]

miketyler- thanks for the info. Keep us posted on how it turns out please.

 

[miketyler]

Will do, you can follow it here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295708

I had foot surgery this week and its slowed me down some but hope to install the power disconnect and start framing in the rafters for the cassette this weekend

 

[bullnerd]

LOL, I thought to look on your page right after I posted that, I will check it out.

Looking forward to hearing your opinion after its running.

 

[bzinsky]

Cassettes, false pictures, or anything else that is different from the normal indoor unit lowers the performance of the package by a lot. Forget what the actual numbers are, but it if I had to guess, they would turn a 28 seer unit into a 18-20 seer unit.

 

[bullnerd]

Wow! That's not good!

I think I'll look at getting longer lines and mounting it on the wall by the doors!

 

[bzinsky]

Ok, I wasn't very clear with that description sorry. I have a 30x40x10 pole building with 2 OH doors on one 30' end and a second on one 40' side.(pics in my sig) The problems, where to place the condenser with a wall mount. I can put everything in the back, no problem with mounting everything, but that's where my wood tools are going, all along the back 30' wall, and opposite from the 2 big doors which is not ideal. Not a BIG deal but, not ideal. The front is parking and doors, not good for the condenser. One side is going to be a full length sidewalk and the other long side is a driveway. So, if I mount a wall unit between the doors, I would have to run the lines the full 40' plus 10' up to the attic, plus down to whatever height I place it on the wall. The unit im looking at comes with 25 or 50' lines. Not positive on the line lengths.

So...I was thinking of a ceiling mounted cassette, kinda solves a few problems. Away from the wood dust(that's kinda big from what ive read), more central to the room,(can mount dead center) lines would reach without too much drama. Can mount the condenser out back out of harms way and where it wouldn't be heard.

So, is it as obvious as it seems that this is better?
Is having the source in the center "much" better than at one end?

I could deal with the cost difference if I know Im doing the right thing.

For those that say they don't like them, why?
Cosmetically its a no brainer, all you'll see is a grill.



Have you seen them? I don't get this comment. It will be completely concealed in the ceiling.

Oh and the size is 30000btu heat, 27000 btu cool. I think.

Couple things, they all have a max lineset length and a lineset length that if you exceed you need to add or remove charge. Which involves more equipment and more risk for error. The ones I installed I know specifically stated that if the lineset lengths are longer than 6.5 ft and shorter than 41ft, you do not have to add or remove any refrigerant. The maximum run period was 61ft, and the max elevation difference between the indoor and outdoor units was 35ft.

Those are about the most flexible specs I saw of any of the systems, so make sure you find that info and base your mounting decision on that.

I would highly recommend installing a normal indoor unit on an exterior wall. If you're not sure where to mount the outdoor unit, not sure if you are aware there are exterior brackets that let you wall mount them. As a heat pump, it needs to be higher than any snow fall you will get.

Also, when operating as a heat pump, the outdoor unit drips a ton of water off it. It just builds up ice over everything, and then runs a thaw cycle, rinse repeat. So when choosing a mounting location, make sure you take that into account. A constant source of water in freezing temperatures can be pretty bad in the wrong spot. Make sure the outdoor unit has plenty of room to breathe. It's amazing how it can **** in air in the winter, and blow out what feels like an artic tundra. If it ***** any of that cold air back into it, it will not perform well. After I had them running, I fully grasped why the specs gave the clearances they did for obstructions around the outdoor unit.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

So you suggest sticking with a wall mount? They move more air?

BTW, the cassette Im looking at has two extra ports to feed two more ceiling vents. That seems kinda handy also?

Cassettes never seem to be able to cool larger spaces evenly. They also tend to accumulate condensation on the directional vanes and drip. The fan motor capacitors go bad an you just about have to completely disassemble the unit to replace the cap. I've never used the added ports for extra ducts, so I can't say how they perform.

Tommy

 

[bzinsky]

Also if you go with LG, specifically the ones I got (available in 9k or 12k units you would need two units basically, would run you about $2500-$3k for both), you can borrow all my expensive tools. I even still have the nitrogen tank. If you live in jersey near Philly I'll come over and help you for a pretty cheap rate. Would do it for beer a few years ago, just too busy now to donate my time.

Two units would solve the dispersion problem atleast.

Borrowing tools, showing you my install and explaining the process, all free. Just because I would have killed for someone to do that for me.

 

[bullnerd]

Ok, you guys talked me out of it, with the price difference, I knew it wouldn't be hard.

So getting back to the wall mount location, would the 30' end between the oh doors(I have to measure how much room is actually there) be better than along the 40' side, centered.

If I get a unit with stock 50' lines do you guys think I can make it the 40' plus whats required at each end. Down from ceiling on the inside and what ever is left over for the outdoor unit. I don't care if its up off the ground a bit. I can mount it to the side of the building.(maybe) How far down with a 10' ceiling height?

Bzinsky- thanks for all the info I will take it all into account. I'm up closer to six flags than Phila.

This is the one I was looking at, it matches the suggested requirements pretty good and Fredrich seems to get good reviews from what Ive read. Again, just looking at it, will probably go with the more common brands mentioned here.

http://www.totalhomesupply.com/24000-btu-21-seer-mini-split-with-heat-pump-230v/p/FRIEDRICH-M24YJ

 

[bzinsky]

Can't really picture what your asking, but you should figure out how long of linesets you can use before you need to add more refridgerant and try to work within those parameters. Just adds another layer of complexity for someone thats DIY, it's slightly better if their shorter anyway.

edit, just looked it up real quick, incredibly long max lineset lengths, no worries there.

You don't have to add any refrigerant if you keep it at 25ft.

http://friedrich.gear.host/document...36_Single_Zone_Heat_Pump_Submittal_2015_0.pdf

http://friedrich.gear.host/documents/dss/Installation-Manual-24-36YJ.pdf

 

[bullnerd]

Basically, whats better, along the 30' end, or along the 40' side? If its the 30' end, which end? OH door end or opposite?

The unit I linked to has 25 and 50' lines available, so I think I can find something that will work without modifying the lines.

 

[dsimatt]

I really like the idea of the cassette in the ceiling and looks a 1,000x better than the wall units and would give me a lot better coverage in my house but I really haven't found anyone say they are good to get.