Mini Split Installation Cost

[iced98lx]

Hey folks, hope all is well, thanks for taking a moment to puruse my question.

We are currently living in a very old house with radiant heat. It's great now that I've tweaked and tuned the radiators and gotten the system running well.

We are however not looking forward to trying to get 4 or 5 ancient window airs that haven't ran in 10 years working again.

Facebook marketplace scrolling led me to this description:

AC/HEAT mini split unit. Whisper Quiet Operation! Always kept inside, not exposed to the elements. In fantastic condition!

PIONEER TRIPLE ZONE OUTDOOR SECTION 230V 22.0 SEER MULTI SPLIT AIR CONDITIONER & HEAT PUMP.
Cooling capacity: 27,000 BTU/H Nominal (Range: 6,630 MIN ~ 30,600 MAX) with 22 SEER efficiency
Heating capacity: 28,000 BTU/H Nominal (Range: 3,690 MIN ~ 32,860 MAX) with 9.8 HSPF efficiency
Model: YN030GMFI22M3D
Includes 3 years remaining on compressor warranty.

Includes (3) 12,000 BTU Multi Zone DC Inverter Multi Split System Heat Pump, 230V, 21.5 SEER, CONCEALED DUCTED HORIZONTAL INDOOR SECTION.
Remote and thermostats included.
Model: RB012GMFILCFHD

Are these properly matched? The head product pages point to the condenser in question but that says 3x9 as a triple setup, would this be overloading it?

Also, does anyone have a thought on installation cost? This would involve 3 pretty long runs (50+ feet?) to mount the compressor where we want to.

I'm guessing we don't get away under $1500 worth of install cost?

It'd let us cool the entire upstairs which would be... nice. The ducted heads could easily be hidden in closets (10ft ceilings on the 2nd floors has its perks) and linesets could come in from above (unfinished attic). Plenty of power available so that's not an issue...

Thoughts? I'd obviously be hiring someone to come do the install...

 

[brewchief]

Used equipment? You couldn't pay me enough to install it unless I was the one who originally installed it and the one removing it from service.

Customer supplied equipment? No thanks new or used. I wouldn't show up at a restaurant with my own steak and ask them to cook it.

There's always a one truck chuck or side job bob willing to do jobs like this, just don't expect them to pick up the phone when it breaks down.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[iced98lx]

Used equipment? You couldn't pay me enough to install it unless I was the one who originally installed it and the one removing it from service.

Customer supplied equipment? No thanks new or used. I wouldn't show up at a restaurant with my own steak and ask them to cook it.

There's always a one truck chuck or side job bob willing to do jobs like this, just don't expect them to pick up the phone when it breaks down.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Glad that works for you and your company in your location

 

[SALIV8]

Pioneers are super cheap new. No need to buy someone else’s.

Checkout www.highseer.com

 

[iced98lx]

Pioneers are super cheap new. No need to buy someone else’s.

Checkout www.highseer.com

Yeap I've been there and browsed, I can't buy all of this for $700 brand new.

 

[brewchief]

Glad that works for you and your company in your location [emoji106]

My main point is to make sure you can find someone to install it before you buy.

A DIY install is certainly possible as well, you will have to buy some tools in most cases but sometimes it will still be cheaper.

If the lines off of the indoor heads haven't seen sealed up I would walk away and I would run if the outdoor section wasn't sealed up, mini splits generally don't have filter dryers so equipment left open where it can **** up moisture from the air can become very problematic in the future.

The system was removed for some reason, if it's junk when you get it all hooked up what is your plan.


Having more indoor capacity than the outdoor unit is rated for isn't uncommon, most of the equipment that I have installed has allowed it to some degree, remember it would be rare that you need all 3 heads running 100% for a long period.

Don't forget to figure in the cost of linesets, interconnection wire, drain piping or condensate pumps and lineset covers if needed.

If the equipment was taken out of service properly and can be reinstalled properly and at a reasonable price then you could end up with a great deal, unfortunately I have seen to many great deals go sideways and end up costing as much or more then a brand new system with a full warranty.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Black Oak]

I would really re-think this purchase . Buying used is very risky business . As someone who had to do this on a tight budget also , I learned how to do the electrical ,pull the vacuum , bend the line set , basically all of it . I've got friends who gave advice , who were in the trades , which really was crucial . But- going with used 3 head unit scares me . I would at the least get new line-sets , of the correct length for each one . The smallest leak will be a problem . Good luck should you take this on .

 

[Jackfre]

Other considerations. Are these models still in the line-up for Pioneer. I have found that MS manuf spin models quickly and current evaps may not be compatible with the old condenser. Depending upon the manuf the evap wiring may be supplied with the line set. I'm helping a friend with a dual unit for his shop and I was shocked at line set costs. Also, should you go with the ducted evaps be veery careful on your duct design. These units are generally very low static and you have almost zero margin for error.
I would do a very thorough analysis of the risk reward end of this deal, used vs new.

 

[MattT]

At that price I'd go look at it. But if anything about the seller or the equipment didn't seem 100% right I'd pass.

$1,500 parts & labor to install that system properly ain't even close. I'm guessing at least double that. Probably more. I doubt you could even self install then pay someone to commission it for $1,500.

 

[iced98lx]

At that price I'd go look at it. But if anything about the seller or the equipment didn't seem 100% right I'd pass.

$1,500 parts & labor to install that system properly ain't even close. I'm guessing at least double that. Probably more. I doubt you could even self install then pay someone to commission it for $1,500.

Perfect, that is the information I was hoping to get. I can do everything but commission it,though I'd rather they run the linsets new and then commision but I have no idea the cost of such a thing. Knowing we probably have $3k in linesets and commissioning helps me understand the budget for such a project.

Appreciate the response!

 

[yeldogt]

When you get new they come with the compressor sealed and charged for a given total length of line set -- the heads are protected.

It's a question of doing the install -- adding up the line length. If within the length of the included charge -- good to go after proper evac. Or add the weight given in the table for the extra length to the unit.

With used -- you are going to need to make sure to flush the heads and clean them -- hope the compressor was properly pumped down. get it all hooked up and put in all new charge.

They are not the wall units -- the units listed would have had ductwork attached ... Yes you can have 3x12 on a 30k -- that's what I have on my Mitsubishi system.

In a prefect world -- it was used by some nuns for two weeks each year .. and meticulously removed and reboxed.

As Jack says. Are the parts available .... even some of the brand names seem to be treated as throw away when they fail -- let along the lesser makes.

You could get it all back together and find a problem with no easy solution.

 

[yeldogt]

Other considerations. Are these models still in the line-up for Pioneer. I have found that MS manuf spin models quickly and current evaps may not be compatible with the old condenser. Depending upon the manuf the evap wiring may be supplied with the line set. I'm helping a friend with a dual unit for his shop and I was shocked at line set costs. Also, should you go with the ducted evaps be veery careful on your duct design. These units are generally very low static and you have almost zero margin for error.
I would do a very thorough analysis of the risk reward end of this deal, used vs new.

Why so expensive?

 

[floridafarmer]

Hey folks, hope all is well, thanks for taking a moment to puruse my question.

We are currently living in a very old house with radiant heat. It's great now that I've tweaked and tuned the radiators and gotten the system running well.

We are however not looking forward to trying to get 4 or 5 ancient window airs that haven't ran in 10 years working again.

Facebook marketplace scrolling led me to this description:



Are these properly matched? The head product pages point to the condenser in question but that says 3x9 as a triple setup, would this be overloading it?

Also, does anyone have a thought on installation cost? This would involve 3 pretty long runs (50+ feet?) to mount the compressor where we want to.

I'm guessing we don't get away under $1500 worth of install cost?

It'd let us cool the entire upstairs which would be... nice. The ducted heads could easily be hidden in closets (10ft ceilings on the 2nd floors has its perks) and linesets could come in from above (unfinished attic). Plenty of power available so that's not an issue...

Thoughts? I'd obviously be hiring someone to come do the install...

I bought a 36,000 BTU 3 Zone pioneer condenser with 2 heads - one was 18,000 and the other 9,000. I did not use the 3rd zone.

Every company I called to help with the install wanted nothing to do with me.
I finally called Pioneer HQ and they hooked me up with a local HVAC College and they did the install for 1,185.00 - BUT.... it was a very simple install as both heads were less than 20' from the condenser.

I think I paid 1600 bucks for the hardware ( including the whip, mounting bracket and line sets) delivered to my door on a liftgate truck.

I know it sounds like a big difference from the used price but I have to really lean with the other guys and recommend new...

Good luck

 

[metlmunchr]

The remainder of a warranty might be transferrable if the residence where the equipment was originally installed is sold. But, transferring a warranty on equipment that has been removed and reinstalled ain't gonna happen, so you can disregard any claim by the seller that the stuff has a warranty remaining. To do so would be the equivalent of GM transferring the warranty on a low mileage engine removed from a totaled Chevy.

If the budget is tight, you,d be better off to buy 5 new 5k btu window units to replace the old ones rather than spending about the same money on used equipment of unknown condition and then adding a ton of money for installation.

 

[thrifty bill]

I'd call HVAC people in your area. If you find someone to do it with a used unit, fine. In my area, none will even touch a new unit if I supply it. Used, no way.

Personally, I would be tempted to buy ONE unit NEW. Get the stuff to install yourself, put it in a bedroom or living room or one of the areas you want to have covered. Once you get the hang of it, save up and get a second unit.

Local HVAC people have given me bids of $4,000 to $5,000 just for my 450 sq ft garage! I am really considering putting in a unit myself, a new one. Costco has the Mr Cool DIY models at pretty reasonable cost. $1300 for the 18K unit, $1,100 for the 12K unit.

The non-DIY models are cheaper, you will need a vacuum pump and a gauge set. The savings on the first one will pay for the tools (assuming you install).

Really the key with a used unit is you most likely will have to install yourself. It will need to be charged with refrigerant, so you still will need to find a local HVAC guy that will touch it.

 

[SALIV8]

I was able to have mine commissioned.

I did everything except final flares and the pump down/pressure test with needed 410a added.

It cost me $100 per hour and I got the local energy rebates and warranty.

It can be done. But I still wouldn’t buy used imo but either way good luck.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Ceiling cassettes and ducted air handlers are the least effective ways of distributing air from a mini-split. Also, both are more susceptible to condensation drain hose clogging, primarily because they have longer horizontal runs.

 

[danski0224]

Shouldn't be more than $23.42...

 

[jjrbus]

I would not take a used mini for free!

 

[Showkey]

I would not take a used mini for free!

I would not take a new mini split for free.

 

[danski0224]

Yeap I've been there and browsed, I can't buy all of this for $700 brand new.

Used HVAC equipment is a big gamble unless one is able to verify the operational condition before decommissioning it.

A used standard split air conditioner is worse.

A used mini-split is worse yet because of the operational complexities.

The compressor could be damaged from improper installation or poor servicing- no way to know unless it is up and running.

The labor to install a used system (if it works) vs a new system (if it works) are the same. Obviously, it is more likely to have problems with a used system vs a new one out of the box- providing it is properly installed.

Some of the multi-head units have very specific installation (refrigerant piping) requirements. Improper piping is a common cause of compressor failure.

I have installed used and customer supplied new equipment.

I will not warranty it. You bought it, you deal with the vendor or manufacturer. You are welcome to call me once/if you get the replacement parts.

Any additional work beyond initial start-up and verification turns into a service call at a higher service call rate.

Generally speaking, while people claim to understand the terms, some become upset when the stuff doesn't work. I will be paid for the installation before starting it up.

Good luck.

 

[justinjoyal]

I would not take a new mini split for free.

Awww... ignorance..

 

[Showkey]

Awww... ignorance..

Try experience owned two.........that was more than enough, never again.

Both were in a much warmer climate than the OP SD.

 

[jjrbus]

Awww... ignorance..[/QU

I may be ignorant about AC, but I am also cheap and not going to buy something that at best has a 50 50 chance of being good.

 

[Notgrownup]

I bought new from Alpine home air , installed myself and had a local pro cut , flare, leak check, pull vacuum for $200 cash. It took him about an hour. $1500.00 Blue ridge 18k btu . Local full install with their unit was no less than $3000.

 

[Showkey]

Have been an Alpine customer several times for Nat Gas units.

The Alpine Air selling all Types of HVAC units to the DIY (GJ) guys has been discussed here many times. Many in the HVAC business don’t like the idea or concept.

Warranty and future service was discussed on the DIY install. A few comments were I can buy 3 units for parts and still $1000’s ahead were common. Yes, there risks and some skills/knowledge involved in any and ALL DIY projects ( plumbing, electrical, HVAC). BUT.........Some don’t like water heater DIY installs so obviously opinions vary.

 

[yeldogt]

I bought a 36,000 BTU 3 Zone pioneer condenser with 2 heads - one was 18,000 and the other 9,000. I did not use the 3rd zone.

Every company I called to help with the install wanted nothing to do with me.
I finally called Pioneer HQ and they hooked me up with a local HVAC College and they did the install for 1,185.00 - BUT.... it was a very simple install as both heads were less than 20' from the condenser.

I think I paid 1600 bucks for the hardware ( including the whip, mounting bracket and line sets) delivered to my door on a liftgate truck.

I know it sounds like a big difference from the used price but I have to really lean with the other guys and recommend new...

Good luck

In hotter FL this may work ... but at max you are only using 75% of the units output. You many only use as an on demand system -- so the heads will be running on the high end ,,,but with most installs in more mild climates the system will never get near it's efficiency level

 

[yeldogt]

Ceiling cassettes and ducted air handlers are the least effective ways of distributing air from a mini-split. Also, both are more susceptible to condensation drain hose clogging, primarily because they have longer horizontal runs.

The cassettes work the same way as the walls as far as the pathway and distance -- the concealed and the wall (boxed concealed) as well. The high static duct I guess can have leakage like any other ducted system

 

[yeldogt]

I bought new from Alpine home air , installed myself and had a local pro cut , flare, leak check, pull vacuum for $200 cash. It took him about an hour. $1500.00 Blue ridge 18k btu . Local full install with their unit was no less than $3000.

That's in the neighborhood ....

I'm going to use a two head mini and single for the HVAC in part of my new build. The bid is $12.5k .. this is for Mitsubishi hyper equipment.

 

[yeldogt]

Try experience owned two.........that was more than enough, never again.

Both were in a much warmer climate than the OP SD.

They are great problem solvers ... I guess I have been lucky. I still have one from 05 ... LG Art Cool is a small guest cabin ...now it's not used all the time ... but, never any problems with any of them.

They are used all over the world -- hot places.

 

[justinjoyal]

Try experience owned two.........that was more than enough, never again.

Both were in a much warmer climate than the OP SD.

Awww... ignorance..[/QU

I may be ignorant about AC, but I am also cheap and not going to buy something that at best has a 50 50 chance of being good.

Poor quality units and/or poor installation.

Mini-splits work great and this is why they are used all around the world.

 

[iced98lx]

Thanks for all the spirited discussion guys. I figured I'd either get a quick answer or spark some discussion. This is a lot like asking a group of mechanics how much it'll cost to have a performance part installed in your car that you walk into the shop with

Long story short, the ducted heads solve a lot of problems for us, we can't be having heads showing in a 1900's victorian home, no matter how big of a prio air con is. Luckily they won't be ducted far, they'll be in the closet of each room just going strait through the wall into the room so hopefully can avoid issues there.

The used equipment vs new thing varies in what you're working with obviously, there are, as pointed out, a lot of ways these things can be decommissioned improperly and that adds to the risk of buying used.

Are they cheap enough to justify? Maybe, but not in this case as the ideal system has a few more heads so at that point we're better off just buying new vs trying to cobble together.

Now, if I were ready for a 3 head unit in the trailer house we're renovating on the lake as a summer cabin? I might try it and hope when they come to commission everything goes well.


That said, one thing that annoys me is when people want you to take care of their problems so to reiterate a few other folks I was assuming I'd be paying your standard "we didn't spec/size/sell you this ****" hourly rate. It's part of the deal when you want to do stuff this way. I assume the same if I asked someone to come tape/texture drywall they didn't hang.

So for anyone wondering, we didn't buy it but I did find several reputable HVAC companies that were happy to come commission a DIY install as long as I was willing to pay their hourly fees.

 

[Showkey]

Poor quality units and/or poor installation.

Mini-splits work great and this is why they are used all around the world.

Exact same argument ( discussion) is often made for tankless water heater.......with equally mix results.

 

[justinjoyal]

The truth is I have sold and installed hundreds of mini-splits with excellent customer satisfaction, for both A/C and heat. They are great at what they do.

 

[yeldogt]

Exact same argument ( discussion) is often made for tankless water heater.......with equally mix results.

Not = IMO

Although both grew out of savings and the ability to add to an existing structure w/o

 

[yeldogt]

One thing I will say about the visual w/ a mini -- once they are there .... no one notices them. Friends with a big victorian did a 7 head multi system from Fujitsu a few years ago .... it's like a pimple ... the owner notices.

When electricity was first retrofitted and added to houses -- wall plates were mirrors. It was "hay ... look at me -- I'm electric" I'm sure if this was the only way for AC -- it would be the same -- they would be gold leafed.

Had I not installed before in multi projects I'm sure I would be reluctant to install in my new project --- most of it is from 1870's. Again -- some thought has to be given to placement .... I have seen some really bad setups.

The wall units have more bells and whistles -- that is something to think about. The Mitsubishi "eye" system really works. Another thing is make sure to measure for the concealed units ... they are bigger that most expect.

Another option is the wall/floor units partially recessed-- it's like a big radiator .. not really nice looking ... but nice on a cold day

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Ceiling cassettes and ducted air handlers are the least effective ways of distributing air from a mini-split. Also, both are more susceptible to condensation drain hose clogging, primarily because they have longer horizontal runs.

They also drip from the vents and leak, are almost impossible to service when (not if) the fan motor run cap goes bad, they grow stuff on the insides due to the poor condensation removal...

I will always try to steer people away from cassettes.

Tommy

 

[yeldogt]

They also drip from the vents and leak, are almost impossible to service when (not if) the fan motor run cap goes bad, they grow stuff on the insides due to the poor condensation removal...

I will always try to steer people away from cassettes.

Tommy

I have not had this occur -- now I only have two of them. But -- so far so good. Mine are Mitsubishi

 

[nsula_country]

Exact same argument ( discussion) is often made for tankless water heater.......with equally mix results.

I have several tankless water heaters. Electric 27kw. Would not go back to tank style. Will probably upgrade some rentals to tankless also in the future.

Haven't seen an application where I'd use a Mini-Split yet...

To the OP. Glad you were able to get a budgetary ideal of what it's going to cost.

Used HVAC equipment is sketchy at best. Especially residential grade, sold by a homeowner.

Also glad that you found HVAC companies that would commission a DYI. Most will not. I will not. Unless, in writing that no warranties are implied or expressed past the tail lights leaving your house.

Let us know what you decide going forward.

CT

 

[dcg9381]

I have a tankless (propane) in the shop. 2 Mini-splits. Love them. Will use again. House residential is getting tankless and ducted HVAC.

I "get it" in terms of buying used HVAC and taking a risk. It is a risk, but again, if you can't pony up for new, I'm not going to look down my nose at you.

My bids for doing end-to-end mini-splits literally were 3x what I spent. That's just how it is. So I have un-warrantied Daikin units, for 1/3 of consumer cost. I'll take that option.

I think you can get them commissioned and final install done, but you may have to shop around...