Mini-split vs. unit heater (nat. gas)?

[zuren]

Late last year, my neighbor handed me a 75,000btu Beacon/Morris garage unit heater (10+ yr. old) that was having problems (Model GG/BRT-75). He had it in his finished garage and simply installed a new unit rather than troubleshoot anything. Knowing nothing about these things, I was hoping it may be something simple. After a bit of research and thought, I'm second guessing any effort I put forward. My neighbor did not record any codes from the control board. He said that it would fire, run, then shutdown. He tried swapping out the sensors with no luck. It would only fire again once the unit had cooled off, so it seems like it is over heating, but that is only speculation. I know a new Mr. Heater unit of similar size is $400-500. I know a new control board for this heater (if that is the issue) is $200-300. I want to avoid putting a bunch of money into a 10 year old heater if I can buy a new unit for just a little more, or if I should go a different direction entirely.

I had a HVAC pro to the house for a separate issue and asked him about this heater. He confirmed that without it being installed, there was nothing he could do. He had no way to take it back to their shop and hook it up to test it. So, just to figure out what is wrong with it, I will need to spend several hundred dollars to get the gas and electric set up, then install it, just to see what is wrong with it. I even thought about getting the propane conversion kit, just to be able to hook it to a tank but even that is about $100. When I asked the HVAC guy what they typically install in garages these days, he said it is mostly mini-split systems - the install is easier and you get both heating and cooling.

I don't have much use for cooling, but is a mini-split a superior option? I see a lot of threads on the topic here. No gas lines, no hole through the roof for venting. You do have a condenser on the outside of the house and some higher electric bills. I'm just looking to take the edge off in the garage when I'm out there working in the winter.

If the mini-split is a better option, I might pull the fan out of this heater and scrap the rest. It either needs to get installed or go away; I can't have it taking up counter space any more.

Thanks!

 

[strutaeng]

So, it is going in your garage? Are you going to heat continuously? Or just when you are working in there?

Do you have the gas service installed?

Do you really need like 5 tons of heating?

 

[dcg9381]

> but is a mini-split a superior option

Not enough info. Do you need 75k worth of cooling? That's going to be $3500-$4000 in mini-splits... Probably two units.

In a cold climate (you mention heat a lot) a mini split will be inferior as it's heat-pump and it's efficiency will drop substantially as it dips under freezing. They (typically) don't have heat strips. If you really need 75 BTU worth of heat and it gets below freezing where you are, mini-split really isn't an option.

 

[fitter30]

What are you doing with this space? Wood workshop,.car repair ,or just for parking. Size is it insulated? Doors?

 

[Git]

In my area, natural gas is way cheaper than electricity. If I was you, I would probably be looking through Amazon Warehouse for a deal on a gas heater - like this one for $58 (if it would work for you)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0746MXCFV/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't have much use for cooling, but is a mini-split a superior option?

The big "win" on mini-splits is that they are very cost effective for heating between about 40F and 65F. I don't have data to support this, but they are probably cheaper to run than a forced air gas furnace in that temperature range. And there is no additional cost for A/C and dehumidification.

The down side of mini-splits is that only the better quality ones ($$$) work well below 40F. The cheap one may not give you any heat below freezing or will turn on a "resistance strip" which is very expensive to operate.

If you have "absolutely no need" for A/C (but, wouldn't it be nice ?) then get the unit heater fixed.

 

[theoldwizard1]

In my area, natural gas is way cheaper than electricity. If I was you, I would probably be looking through Amazon Warehouse for a deal on a gas heater - like this one for $58 (if it would work for you)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0746MXCFV/?tag=atomicindus08-20

If the gas pipe is there, and you have no need for A/C this is a great option. They do NOT distribute heat well, so you will need one or more fans.

 

[theoldwizard1]

In a cold climate (you mention heat a lot) a mini split will be inferior as it's heat-pump and it's efficiency will drop substantially as it dips under freezing.

That statement is simply NOT TRUE for all mini-splits ! There are some that continue to provide heat below zero F, even without heat strips !

This is where you need to be an educated consumer.

 

[dcg9381]

That statement is simply NOT TRUE for all mini-splits ! There are some that continue to provide heat below zero F, even without heat strips !

This is where you need to be an educated consumer.

We are miscommunicating here, perhaps my fault.

I am NOT saying that mini-split heat pumps will not heat below zero. That is simply not true - many have performance graphs that go below zero.

What I AM saying is that the ability of any heat pump to heat (including a mini-split) when temperatures go below zero is reduced. And may be substantially reduced. Mini-splits tend to be better at heating (and perhaps cooling) efficiency than most ducted heat pumps, but they eventually can't extract heat where there is none.

So a 48k BTU unit may only heat 24k BTU as it gets substantially colder. Some are better than others in really cold weather, but I would not depend on one up north unless I had looked at the performance chart and knew what capacity it would put out at outside temperature for a desired indoor temp.

Hyper-heat units are good units for heating. And yes, mini-splits some are rated to like -15F.. Look for: high HSPF (Heating Seasonal Performance Factor).
Units designed for colder climates:

Mitsubishi Hyper-Heating
LGRED° High Heating Capacity
Daikin Enhanced-Heating

But before you buy a mini-split, check out the performance graph so you know how much heat you're going to get vs temperature.

The OP is talking about a situation where he's considering 75k worth of heat capacity. If he's up north and it gets really cold, say -15F or something, he may need 150k worth of heat pump to match that capacity due the decreasing performance of heat pumps at cold temperature. But it's going to depend on "which" unit.

My units are Daikin, without referencing the actual performance graph, the marketing says:

"Daikin systems have the highest heating capacity at low temperatures, down to -4°F, allowing the individual user to be comfortable with the Daikin system alone, as opposed to turning to alternative heat sources."

Not sure I'd install a Daikin in Michigan... At least not one of the "regular" ones.

 

[fitter30]

Heres a article about heating output

https://www.sunshinerenewables.ca/h...ature-affect-the-performance-of-my-heat-pump/

 

[finn]

We installed a Mitsubishi Hyper heat last fall. Works well in our basement room to about-12F, but was pretty feeble when it got to -14. The sweet spot is probably above zero, though.

I wouldn’t consider it adequate for a sole source of heat for a garage here, unless I was willing to forego heat once in a while.

 

[Showkey]

As for cost.........
Install and equipment is easy to compare. Mini split is usually more expensive.

Cost of operation even for shop can be figured witha calculator.

Select equipment
Select fuel used.
Select the sqft.


http://www.energydepot.com/ResidentialEnergyCalculator/


Tweak equation .......Just adjust the actual energy cost to your location. Select the equipment and shop use 0 for occupant and laundry to remove the hot water from the equation.

 

[bobhol]

Hi. My first post here although I have learned a lot from this site. I use mini splits as my sole heat source. I have Fujitsu units , one upstairs and one on the main floor. I can heat the whole house approximately 2000 sq ft with the downstairs unit till the temperature falls to 0F. I then use both units and they have performed perfectly to -30F. I have measured 100 degrees of heat available at that temp. Typically they give out 135 F degrees of heat when it is 20 degrees warmer. I live in central Ontario Canada and the units are the XLT ...extra low temperature... ones. Saying that , I just installed a 50 k Mr Heater in my garage. The cost of the mini splits and the maintenance to KEEP THEM CLEAN in a garage environment would be a full time job.

 

[rlitman]

...What I AM saying is that the ability of any heat pump to heat (including a mini-split) when temperatures go below zero is reduced. And may be substantially reduced. Mini-splits tend to be better at heating (and perhaps cooling) efficiency than most ducted heat pumps, but they eventually can't extract heat where there is none.

So a 48k BTU unit may only heat 24k BTU as it gets substantially colder. Some are better than others in really cold weather, but I would not depend on one up north unless I had looked at the performance chart and knew what capacity it would put out at outside temperature for a desired indoor temp...

As TOW said, "This is where you need to be an educated consumer."

First off, the 18kBTU LG mini split I most recently installed is actually over 22kBTU in heating mode. I used mine all winter, and it heated just fine, without any resistance strips, with the outside temperature grazing 0F. Yes, the heating capacity is derated in severe cold, but it starts out higher than the cooling capacity, so you still get a surprising amount of output.

Second, parts of Michigan have weather that's a half zone warmer than parts of Long Island near me. I agree that I wouldn't count on a mini-split in areas where you NEED heat output and where it gets below -15F, but that only covers half of Michigan (and far less than half the population).

 

[dcg9381]

Sounds like these high-heat output units do fine where you are... Glad we are all here to share our experiences.

 

[dsimatt]

Sounds like these high-heat output units do fine where you are... Glad we are all here to share our experiences.

I've got a 18k hyper heat in our house and bought it mainly for ac but went hyper heat for redundancy and it does put good heat out in extreme cold.

That said, I dont think in the OPs situation that I'd pick a mini split over a gas heater unless the prices were really close.

 

[theoldwizard1]

We installed a Mitsubishi Hyper heat last fall. Works well in our basement room to about -12F, but was pretty feeble when it got to -14F. The sweet spot is probably above zero, though.

I wouldn’t consider it adequate for a sole source of heat for a garage here, unless I was willing to forego heat once in a while.

Where YOU LIVE, you always need a back up heat source !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Hi. My first post here although I have learned a lot from this site. I use mini splits as my sole heat source.

Living in Ontario, I would want a backup that did not require electricity or at least could run on a portable generator.

 

[Jackfre]

The point has been made that when selecting a MSHP you have to clearly understand the specs on that particular manuf product vs other manuf. I only use Fujitsu, but even within their line they have models of widely variable outputs and efficiencies. The deep heating models will deliver their rated outputs at the lowest temps the manuf specifies, so a 12 will deliver 12kbtu at that temp. when it is warmer that same unit will deliver quite a lot above 12kbtu. Knowing the output curve @ temp/model is important for a confident buy.
As the OP says he had less use for cooling and has natural gas, i would go gas here. What do you think the land is?

 

[meathooker]

That statement is simply NOT TRUE for all mini-splits ! There are some that continue to provide heat below zero F, even without heat strips !

This is where you need to be an educated consumer.

That statement is true.

Check your facts jack

 

[zuren]

So, it is going in your garage? Are you going to heat continuously? Or just when you are working in there?

Do you have the gas service installed?

Do you really need like 5 tons of heating?

Sorry for the delay in responding...life gets in the way of fun things like working on the garage!

To answer a few questions regarding this heater:

• Size - 806 sq. ft. with 8.5' ceiling
• Insulation - None. Zero. I was planning to work on this before getting a heater, but the heater fell in my lap first. The garage is just studs with no ceiling.
• Installation - only in the garage.
• When will I be heating? - Only when I'm in the garage working on cars or other non-dusty projects.
• Gas service to the garage? - No. I would have to get this plumbed in, and figuring a few hundred dollars to have a plumber do it. The house has natural gas, but I'm not opposed to having this run as propane.
• Doors - 2 insulated overhead doors, 1 human entry door (to be replaced soon), 1 large window.

Temps. around me in the winter can dive into the single digits, and extended stints in the teens to 20s, so it is those days that I would like some heat.

I just found a propane conversion kit for my heater for $50...that is a little easier to swallow versus full price that I was finding. I'm wondering if I can connect it to a 20lb. LP tank for a gas grill, get some 110v to it, so I can at least run it one cycle to get the fault codes and see where I stand.

Thanks!

 

[bzinsky]

As a huge mini split fan, if you only need heat, live in a cold climate, have an uninsulated garage, and have gas service, mini split is not a good option at all, just so much more money for the hardware

Anyway, you’re going gas anyway, so run a gas line and set it up, if it doesn’t work, buy a different unit and install it.

Or why not just put the heater somewhere and jerry rig a gas connection and power.

My garage is the same size and uninsulated. I have an 80k btu heater. I don’t have a return duct, it just ***** air from near the floor. I just have a 10 foot run of duct on the ceiling with like 5-6 vents cut out. I don’t even have a thermostat, just a turn dial timer. 15 minutes before I work I just turn the dial.

 

[strutaeng]

Yeah, for that use, that heater would be perfect! Seems like the conversion to LP is not difficult or costly.

I've got a detached garage 625 sq ft and last Fall I ran gas from my gas meter and installed a Big Maxx 50KBtu. I had run water to garage the year before, so mostly want to heat to keep above freezing and warm it up when I go in there and work. Garage is also not insulated at the moment. Plan to add insulation eventually. We had a few nights where temps. were in the lower 20s, but the heat output of these units is insane.

 

[Jackfre]

That statement is true.

Check your facts jack

Pretty sure my facts are correct!